Would you ask for joint title on a condo DH bought when he was single and in this circumstance?

[Anonymous]

DH has a 1BD condo ($340k) from when he was single, so he's the only one on that mortgage (new $280k mortgage due to refi cash out). The $220k condo we live in now is paid off (I had 120k in savings and DH refinanced his condo and took out money from it to out in 100k). DH has another 1BD condo that is worth 35k (in a different city, I wish DC housing prices were like that!). It used to have a loan of $15,000 that I paid off from my checking account when we were engaged because I thought it didn't make financial sense to be paying interest on it when I had more than enough to pay it off.

We both think household income and expenses are communal. I used to make about 40-50k more than DH until I had a baby and became a stay at home mom recently. It's the first time I am without income and I feel that maybe I'm not protecting myself in case we ever end up divorced in the future (no one thinks they will get divorced at the altar but things happen). We have one joint account with 60k but DH wanted to keep his three individual checking accounts. For condo #1 he has a bank account with 8k in it, for condo #2 he has a separate checking account with $15k. He said he didn't want to close those two condo related accounts because that's how he's tracking how much our rental income and repair costs are. I used to think that was fine until it occurred to me that all the rental income we're making just stays there and the balances keep on growing and if it ever came to a divorce, a third party would think that his two condos are his sole property, especially since the mortgage comes out of that individual account and rental income is not transferred to the joint account.

DH says everything we own is "ours" but funny enough, when I potentially tested it by saying how about we retitle the 340k condo in both our names, his response was "would the bank let you do that" to which I replied "yes, i checked" and then silence. knowing his personality, now it's up to me to push it if I really want it, his preference is to just leave it as is saying "isn't it a lot of paperwork". Even the 35k condo, when he talks about how much money it's making him and I correct him that actually it hasn't yet, since I put in the 15k and the rental income has not yet covered that amount and the property value went down, he reacts surprised, saying didn't he pay off the balance with money he pulled out of his condo refinancing, not that I gave it to him from my individual checking account. See what happens after a few years? People remember things differently!!

Anyhow, since we're married, does it even matter whether the 340k condo and the 35k condo are not titled jointly? Would you push it so that one or the other or both gets retitled?

[Anonymous]

OP here. To clarify the 220k we bought when we were just married and hadn't "commingled assets" yet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has a 1BD condo ($340k) from when he was single, so he's the only one on that mortgage (new $280k mortgage due to refi cash out). The $220k condo we live in now is paid off (I had 120k in savings and DH refinanced his condo and took out money from it to out in 100k). DH has another 1BD condo that is worth 35k (in a different city, I wish DC housing prices were like that!). It used to have a loan of $15,000 that I paid off from my checking account when we were engaged because I thought it didn't make financial sense to be paying interest on it when I had more than enough to pay it off.

We both think household income and expenses are communal. I used to make about 40-50k more than DH until I had a baby and became a stay at home mom recently. It's the first time I am without income and I feel that maybe I'm not protecting myself in case we ever end up divorced in the future (no one thinks they will get divorced at the altar but things happen). We have one joint account with 60k but DH wanted to keep his three individual checking accounts. For condo #1 he has a bank account with 8k in it, for condo #2 he has a separate checking account with $15k. He said he didn't want to close those two condo related accounts because that's how he's tracking how much our rental income and repair costs are. I used to think that was fine until it occurred to me that all the rental income we're making just stays there and the balances keep on growing and if it ever came to a divorce, a third party would think that his two condos are his sole property, especially since the mortgage comes out of that individual account and rental income is not transferred to the joint account.

DH says everything we own is "ours" but funny enough, when I potentially tested it by saying how about we retitle the 340k condo in both our names, his response was "would the bank let you do that" to which I replied "yes, i checked" and then silence. knowing his personality, now it's up to me to push it if I really want it, his preference is to just leave it as is saying "isn't it a lot of paperwork". Even the 35k condo, when he talks about how much money it's making him and I correct him that actually it hasn't yet, since I put in the 15k and the rental income has not yet covered that amount and the property value went down, he reacts surprised, saying didn't he pay off the balance with money he pulled out of his condo refinancing, not that I gave it to him from my individual checking account. See what happens after a few years? People remember things differently!!

Anyhow, since we're married, does it even matter whether the 340k condo and the 35k condo are not titled jointly? Would you push it so that one or the other or both gets retitled?

I think a divorce attorney would probably be able to give you better advice (not that you're going to seek a divorce, but with regard to property ownership in a marriage).

But my gut feeling is that property acquired by one party in the marriage *BEFORE* getting married would be considered differently than joint assets if a divorce ever happened. It would be sort of like if you had an inheritance or family property that you owned before getting married.

If I were you, I would want my name on the title. It also clears any confusion in the case of death (if your husband dies and suddenly relatives of his come out the woodwork seeking claim).

I also would be suspicious of why he is resisting adding your name to the title. There might indeed be a cost to doing, but nothing outrageous, and in fact, the time to do it was during the refi.

But yeah, I think in a marriage, there really shouldn't be resistance to having both names on the title of all assets. It doesn't make any sense.

[Anonymous]

I would get your name on title.

[Anonymous]

It is probably a good idea to get your name on the title but would back up and get a lawyer to advise you on your debts/assets in general. You describe a lot money and investments and debts flowing back and forth between your lives as singles and your married selves.

I think you need to talk and get some impartial legal advice (now, when things are good) to figure out who owns/owes what individually and what is joint. This is not just a divorce thing, this matters for writing wills, for instance.

[Anonymous]

Given how your finances have co-mingled (and especially that you paid off one of the loans), I would definitely want to be on the titles and the accounts.

[Anonymous]

Ha, he's good! He's got you paying off his condo for him.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't worry about a such a heavily mortgaged asset. But to flip the question, how would you feel about putting your name on the mortgage, as well? You could refi and put both your names on the title and the mortgage. That would be fair.....

[Anonymous]

Stop focusing on what would happen in the case of divorce and make this about what would happen in the case of death. I have to assume your husband would want to ensure that you and your children are able to receive as much in terms of assets as possible in the case of his death and not have to deal with tons of paperwork and probate because your name isn't on everything. I mean, are you saying your name is also not legally part of those three checking accounts? It's fine if you have an agreement to never touch them, etc. but if he were to die you would not have access to them. You need to fix this asap.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has a 1BD condo ($340k) from when he was single, so he's the only one on that mortgage (new $280k mortgage due to refi cash out). The $220k condo we live in now is paid off (I had 120k in savings and DH refinanced his condo and took out money from it to out in 100k). DH has another 1BD condo that is worth 35k (in a different city, I wish DC housing prices were like that!). It used to have a loan of $15,000 that I paid off from my checking account when we were engaged because I thought it didn't make financial sense to be paying interest on it when I had more than enough to pay it off.

We both think household income and expenses are communal. I used to make about 40-50k more than DH until I had a baby and became a stay at home mom recently. It's the first time I am without income and I feel that maybe I'm not protecting myself in case we ever end up divorced in the future (no one thinks they will get divorced at the altar but things happen). We have one joint account with 60k but DH wanted to keep his three individual checking accounts. For condo #1 he has a bank account with 8k in it, for condo #2 he has a separate checking account with $15k. He said he didn't want to close those two condo related accounts because that's how he's tracking how much our rental income and repair costs are. I used to think that was fine until it occurred to me that all the rental income we're making just stays there and the balances keep on growing and if it ever came to a divorce, a third party would think that his two condos are his sole property, especially since the mortgage comes out of that individual account and rental income is not transferred to the joint account.

DH says everything we own is "ours" but funny enough, when I potentially tested it by saying how about we retitle the 340k condo in both our names, his response was "would the bank let you do that" to which I replied "yes, i checked" and then silence. knowing his personality, now it's up to me to push it if I really want it, his preference is to just leave it as is saying "isn't it a lot of paperwork". Even the 35k condo, when he talks about how much money it's making him and I correct him that actually it hasn't yet, since I put in the 15k and the rental income has not yet covered that amount and the property value went down, he reacts surprised, saying didn't he pay off the balance with money he pulled out of his condo refinancing, not that I gave it to him from my individual checking account. See what happens after a few years? People remember things differently!!

Anyhow, since we're married, does it even matter whether the 340k condo and the 35k condo are not titled jointly? Would you push it so that one or the other or both gets retitled?

You're testing your husband? And you think divorce is a "you never know" kind of thing? Bottom line is if he brought that into the marriage, that's his if you split. The equity accumulated before you married is his. Any equity accumulated during the marriage is arguably split. Whether or not you are on title doesn't mean anything in that scenario.

[Anonymous]

For the condo that is paid off, it's fine to get it titled jointly if you want. However, for the condo with the mortgage, if I were your husband, I would want the mortgage refinanced into both of your names before I would consent to joint titling. The problem is that if your name is added to the title, but not to the mortgage, that puts him in financial jeopardy. At any time, you can request a partition settlement which would require him to pay you half the value of the condo whether or not he could sell it. You can also request, against his will, that he sell the condo to provide you half the value of the condo. Whether he would have to bring money to the table and sell it. However, he would be the only one responsible for the mortgage. So you would then have legal ownership and rights to the property without the financial burden of the mortgage and the payment of said mortgage. If it were to go so short sale or foreclosure due to your partition request, then he would be fully responsible for the costs and the loss on the sale of the property because you would be entitled to half the value of the condo and he would be responsible for paying off the condo and any losses would not be divided, but would be assumed on his portion of the sale. Once you refinance in both names, which makes you equally liable for both profits and loss on the value of the condo, then it is safe for him to retitle it jointly.

I think a better idea would be for you two to just draft an agreement on what joint property is held within the marriage for the purpose of division of assets in the event of a divorce and to have this notarized. That will give you the financial security of half of the marriage assets whether they are titled or mortgaged in his name or both of your names. Much simpler to have that agreement (which you both see to agree to) in writing and notarized rather than trying to deal with the financial hassles of retitling and/or refinancing. You can then refinance the mortgage when it is financially wise to do so and refinance in both of your names.

[Anonymous]

Yes, you should be on the title, but I can see how bringing it up when you're newly SAH can push the fear button around whether you just want him for his money.

[Anonymous]

You should defn get your name on the condo u paid pay off, and the money from that rental should go into a joint account.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DH has a 1BD condo ($340k) from when he was single, so he's the only one on that mortgage (new $280k mortgage due to refi cash out). The $220k condo we live in now is paid off (I had 120k in savings and DH refinanced his condo and took out money from it to out in 100k). DH has another 1BD condo that is worth 35k (in a different city, I wish DC housing prices were like that!). It used to have a loan of $15,000 that I paid off from my checking account when we were engaged because I thought it didn't make financial sense to be paying interest on it when I had more than enough to pay it off.

We both think household income and expenses are communal. I used to make about 40-50k more than DH until I had a baby and became a stay at home mom recently. It's the first time I am without income and I feel that maybe I'm not protecting myself in case we ever end up divorced in the future (no one thinks they will get divorced at the altar but things happen). We have one joint account with 60k but DH wanted to keep his three individual checking accounts. For condo #1 he has a bank account with 8k in it, for condo #2 he has a separate checking account with $15k. He said he didn't want to close those two condo related accounts because that's how he's tracking how much our rental income and repair costs are. I used to think that was fine until it occurred to me that all the rental income we're making just stays there and the balances keep on growing and if it ever came to a divorce, a third party would think that his two condos are his sole property, especially since the mortgage comes out of that individual account and rental income is not transferred to the joint account.

DH says everything we own is "ours" but funny enough, when I potentially tested it by saying how about we retitle the 340k condo in both our names, his response was "would the bank let you do that" to which I replied "yes, i checked" and then silence. knowing his personality, now it's up to me to push it if I really want it, his preference is to just leave it as is saying "isn't it a lot of paperwork". Even the 35k condo, when he talks about how much money it's making him and I correct him that actually it hasn't yet, since I put in the 15k and the rental income has not yet covered that amount and the property value went down, he reacts surprised, saying didn't he pay off the balance with money he pulled out of his condo refinancing, not that I gave it to him from my individual checking account. See what happens after a few years? People remember things differently!!

Anyhow, since we're married, does it even matter whether the 340k condo and the 35k condo are not titled jointly? Would you push it so that one or the other or both gets retitled?

You shouldnt even have to ask him about retitling it. If he has an issue with it, there is a trust issue and you have much bigger problems. Considering you used your savings for the re-fi? oh hell yes. End of the day, you are married, this should not even be up for debate.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, I'm not sure I understand you case for putting you on the title for the 340k condo, unless joint money is also going into paying the mortgage (if so, then yes you should be on the title and the mortgage).
Agree you should be on the title to the condo you helped pay off.
Assume you are on the title to the condo in which you currently live?