Fed. Lawyers-How did you get the Job?

[Anonymous]

I'm trying to navigate the black hole that is USA Jobs and am just wondering...is it really possible to get a legal job that way? I only know one Fed lawyer and he has been there for years and years. All of my friends are in firms. How did you do it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm trying to navigate the black hole that is USA Jobs and am just wondering...is it really possible to get a legal job that way? I only know one Fed lawyer and he has been there for years and years. All of my friends are in firms. How did you do it?

Appointed.

[Anonymous]

I got a fed lawyer job a few years ago, but didn't take it. But I got it the old fashioned way, actually -- responded to a USAJobs listing. I wasn't their first choice, I don't think, because it took them a while to come to me with the offer, and by that time I had other opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Definitely possible. Have had two fed jobs and interviewed for a bunch of others. Got all through USA Jobs (or USDOJ website). Most attorney jobs in the federal government are part of the excepted service. This means that even if they advertise on USA Jobs the hiring officials (and not HR) get to decide who to interview. So it's less of a black hole and more like applying to a private sector job.

[Anonymous]

I have worked at three federal agencies, one right out of law school and two after working at a firm. I got the first by applying to the agency's honors program (not DOJ), the next by applying through USAJobs (2003), and my current job by responding to a vacancy notice on the DOJ attorney vacancies website (2010). I have good credentials but did not clerk or go to a top 14 law school. So it can be done. That said -- and as I am sure you know -- the market is extremely tight right now. Friends who are on hiring panels have told me that their agencies are receiving large numbers of resumes from textbook stellar applicants (Top 5 law school, clerkship, non-share partner or senior associate from a good firm), even for line attorney positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have worked at three federal agencies, one right out of law school and two after working at a firm. I got the first by applying to the agency's honors program (not DOJ), the next by applying through USAJobs (2003), and my current job by responding to a vacancy notice on the DOJ attorney vacancies website (2010). I have good credentials but did not clerk or go to a top 14 law school. So it can be done. That said -- and as I am sure you know -- the market is extremely tight right now. Friends who are on hiring panels have told me that their agencies are receiving large numbers of resumes from textbook stellar applicants (Top 5 law school, clerkship, non-share partner or senior associate from a good firm), even for line attorney positions.

Along those lines, my DH DOJ office has been turning down recent Supreme Court clerks. So job market is definitely tight (mainly because of budget) but not impossible.

[Anonymous]

First, DOJ Honors. Second, clerkship after applying directly with judge. Third, USAjobs.

[Anonymous]

You could also sleep your way into a job....

[Anonymous]

Knew somebody. High up. Most attorneys where I work knew somebody (and there are lots of us).

[Anonymous]

Went Federal after 4 years in a firm. Did not know anybody in the government: just applied through USAJobs. I spent about a year applying -- got interviews with increasing frequency, but no offers -- and then all of the sudden I was on the final list for multiple jobs. I think it is partly just timing: you have to be there, with your game already sharpened by frequent applying and interviewing, when they suddenly have the motivation and funds to hire.

That said, the two most important factors for me were:
1. Job had multiple vacancies, i.e., they were reaching further down the applicant stack past the multiple current Feds who were also hired along with me; and
2. It was pre- financial meltdown, i.e., agencies had money and fewer people were looking. It's just a different market now, I'm sorry to say.

PP is correct that you can (and IMO, should) use a private sector resume and cover letter format, as it is attorneys doing the screening for most of these jobs. That said, I've had several hiring officials tell me that they blatantly screen out those who don't provide complete applications -- even when the advertisement has BS application requirements, like college transcripts, SSN, etc. that you would never include in a private sector application -- because that's a fair and easy way to whittle down the application pile to a manageable number. My office doesn't do that, but we do expect to see a cover letter or equivalent that is tailored to the job: generic form letters don't usually work very well.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Thanks everyone! Any tips on how to respond to postings?

[Anonymous]

I got my federal attorney job through responding to a local affinity group's internal email re: jobs (ie: along the lines of Hispanic Bar Association, Asian American Bar Asssociation, etc.). If you are interested in a federal job, I would encourage you to try to get yourself on as many email distribution lists re: job opportunities. Many attorney positions are excepted service, meaning that they can hire outside of the vacancy announcement on usajobs. If you are not a member of one of these groups, I would suggest physically networking with people who work at the agencies you want to work at, as much of the hiring is via word of mouth.

[Anonymous]

I was recently hired as a fed lawyer at a new agency (you can probably guess which one) and I got the job just by passing my resume to someone on the inside. No USA Jobs, NO KSAs, etc. But that's almost certainly because it is a new agency. I spent a solid six or nine months applying for positions through USA Jobs and heard absolutely nothing. And I have a really good resume! My understanding is that in filling out the KSAs, you must be very very technical and use almost verbatim the language described in the posting. The federal hiring process is very bureaucratic and the people selecting the candidates who make it through the first screening are not lawyers and are just checking boxes. You have to write your KSAs and tailor your resume with those people in mind, not the lawyers that you actually want to work for. Google some sample KSAs online, or better yet, ask friends who are in federal jobs to show you their successful KSAs. Also, I got sort of demoralized after a while because I applied to so many and took so much time to do it and did not hear anything. My advice is only to apply for the ones for which you genuinely meet the descriptions in the posting - don't burn yourself out applying to ones for which you only arguably qualify. Also, don't just rely on USA Jobs. Many agencies post jobs on their website that they do not post on USA Jobs. For example, I found DOJ and SEC postings on their website that were not posted on USA Jobs. The SEC also has a twitter feed on which they sometimes post jobs. That may make the USA Jobs postings even harder to get because they are the easiest for everyone to find.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My advice is only to apply for the ones for which you genuinely meet the descriptions in the posting - don't burn yourself out applying to ones for which you only arguably qualify.

Yes, those doing the hiring also appreciate this. Ask yourself not whether you could do the task described, but whether you have already done it successfully.

It sucks, but most government offices don't have the resources to let you ramp up from zero. This is why so many current Feds get hired into other Federal jobs, leading to the persistent myth that you must know someone in government to get into government. IMO, it's much more about being a known quantity and having a particular type of experience [that sometimes is only available in government] than about being connected.

[Anonymous]

Fed attorney here who has been applying for new Fed jobs. I've been using USAJOBS, and I've received three offers in the last year. I agree that the hiring officials are looking for attorneys with specific skills. In my interviews, they informed me that despite the large amount of applicants, it was difficult to find someone with my particular experience.

It also helps to know someone in the agency to which you are applying. For two of the offers, the hiring officials either knew me or others I had worked with. I am not good at networking, so I had no idea I had a connection. It wasn't until the interview that I realized that is why I got the call.

In this climate, it's going to be really hard to find something without a connection. FWIW, I went to a 4th tier law school and never clerked or worked at a firm. Many Fed sector hiring officials have average credentials, so I don't think the Ivy, clerkship, big name firm experience carries as much weight.

OP, in your position try to work as many terms from the announcement into your resume and/or KSAs. Some agencies still use resumix, a screening program. You need to make it from the pool of hundreds of applicants to the smaller group that gets forwarded on to the attorneys. Also, don't rule out the gs 11, 12, or 13s. The pay sucks at first, but most fed attorneys with any amount of experience will not apply for those positions. You can always work up within the organization.