Top private (Sidwell, GDS) versus top public (JKLM) for early years: what are the differences?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From my perspective, the greatest advantage in sending your kid to a top private is in the high powered connections that can be made by both the parent and student. However, if you're not into networking or you have a kid that isn't particularly competitive or aggressive, I'm not sure if you'll get your money's worth.

Some see privates as having an advantage in addressing the perception of the need to weed out the "less desirable elements" that are often found in public schools. However, JKLM parents will argue that they have totally accomplished this (often at the expense of diversity and any semblance of a real world environment). I'm sure people will debate this point but that's my perspective.

I've gone on tours of all the top privates. There are many things that are very impressive about these schools. However, IMO, if you get past the ego's desire for your child to wear a sweatshirt with the name of a top 3 private emblazoned across it, you may come to the conclusion that none of the really cool bells and whistles (eg. in school extra curricular activities, longer recess, lack of standardized tests, access to teachers outside of the school day, etc.) are really worth 40k a year, especially if it's a stretch for you.



I will also add that many public schools (and yes, even those outside the JKLM boundaries) have great early childhood programs. And, if you're inbounds for Deal, I wouldn't even think about private until high school.

This networking aspect is one of the ugly underbellies of these private schools, but again, nerds are exempt unless bullied so badly they hate life

[Anonymous]

Yeah, we're (unbullied) nerds too, so none of us is interested in or even affected by the networking. And the nerd kids tend to befriend other nerd kids who tend to have at least one nerd parent so there's a vibrant subculture, at least in DC's class.

Both DH and I were public school kids who chose private despite rather than because of the cohort. But we were happy to discover, largely through our DC, that other families chose the school because they valued the same aspects of it that we did.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
As an aside, re pressure cookers -- ironically, the pressure cooker atmosphere to me involves the obsession with APs and acceleration that kicks in in HS here/now (sooner if you live in the burbs and your kid tests gifted). BASIS is self-consciously built on that model. Its pitch is you don't have to be smart or rich to take lots of APs (or take Algebra in 6th grade) -- you have to be disciplined and motivated and be given the resources. (And we have to be allowed to kick you out if you don't get with the program). For my kid, what was valuable about the private L/MS experience was breadth and depth and play and experimentation, which is a very different educational model. HS at the same school has been a decidedly mixed bag -- with the AP/acceleration model arguably eclipsing the other approach in the later years -- or maybe an attempt to do both in a way that's utterly unrealistic given time pressure and previously instilled standards about what it means to do something well.

To me, this is one of the most interesting and thoughtful posts from a private school parent, and something that anyone considering private in the "early years" and probably staying at the same school should think seriously about.

Maybe it is more difficult for kids to have the school change on them than changing schools entirely for the upper grade, pressure cooker years.

I hate that Basis makes the kids start doing serious homework so early (they start in 5th), but at least there is no false advertising - the kids know what they are getting into from the start. Coming from the play-based, mostly no serious homework, JKLM world now two of our kids feel like they have landed in a hard core intellectual environment. But they also revel in the intellectual stimulation (especially the ability to accelerate in math) and starting in 6th Physics, Chem, and Bio each year, and have found peers who are also geeky where geeky is cool.... they are geeky STEM kids, don't know what it would be like if they were not math/science kids.... and we have one taking APs and it is not as pressure cooker as I would have thought because the kids for the most part cooperate instead of compete.......

[Anonymous]

To me, the parent you're quoting, part of the problem is the play vs intellectual seriousness dichotomy. The most intellectually serious people I know have very playful minds.
And, actually, the embrace of that dichotomy is what turned me off Sidwell. They, too, were candid -- play at the lower school, with "rigor" kicking in at 4th or 5th grade when the kids switched campuses.

I have other issues with AP as a gold standard of pre-collegiate excellence, but they mostly involve Humanities. Basically, AP courses are significantly less/differently challenging than history and lit courses should be at schools where teachers have the students and the resources to design challenging curricula. AP is dumbed down and speeded up compared with pre-AP humanities coursework at DC's school. I don't perceive that problem where science and math are concerned but I've never taught or worked in those fields, so it's not something I'd feel competent to judge.

[Anonymous]

It is certainly apparent that in some people's eyes, private is never the right choice. Our kids will have gone to both (switching to private at non-entry lower school years) and think it's more honest to admit that this is a gray area. Some families will be delighted with their JKM (or charter or other public) experience and some will not. Some kids and families will find their best match at a private that wouldn't work for other families. There are legitimate educational differences among schools and trying to pretend their aren't benefits and disadvantages to all is not particularly helpful. Just because a school wasn't a good match for one family doesn't mean that another person's choice to attend said school is wrong, and needs to be adamantly defended.

Also agree that experiences from 20, 15 or even 10 years ago not particularly relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public pluses and downsides: Jklm filled with bright motivated kids and parents; whatever is lacking is not having PE everyday is trust me made up after school, tons of sports and enrichment opportunities on campus. These kids get plenty of exercise. Testing doesn't become a downside until third grade and it does impact the curriculum for about two months a year, but class sizes are totally manageable (we have twenty) and love being part of a neighborhood school and teachers are super responsive in fact I'd say more so because you see them every day at drop off and pick up as opposed to being in a car pool line. My teachers have always been super responsive.

Private downsides and pluses: more art is great, no testing provides more freedom in older grades, prettier facilities sometimes. And ... Smaller classes can be a plus or a minus. I can see it going either way. Sometimes privates are too small to find your tribe. Middle school is where there is a big divide that begins to take place. If money is any issue, apply in middle.

2 months a year? Can that be right?

No, not in my kids' experience.

not at Mann, and our scores are usually fairly high.

Although with the PARCC, the test is happening twice and the idea that third graders are going to be able to type out answers is ridiculous, so more time is being spent getting used to the computer experience - but again, my kids have no idea that the scores really matter and we never tell them what they get, so the person on the other thread who said that the kids feel the pressure of the test just would not be right in terms of our school, and I bet other JKLMs as well.

I think people are relaxed about the PARCC now because everyone has agreed it won't count? Anyway, still not a lot of time being spent at Mann on test prep

Yes, same at Murch.

And the PP who said her/his kids didn't go to Murch and gave three reasons for it sadly doesn't seem to know anything about his/her neighborhood school, except that they take standardized tests (and I'm pretty sure the PARCC isn't going to test my kids' ability to design, construct, diagram, label the energy transfers in, and video tape a Rube Goldberg, or ask DC to research and figure out what to pack for the trip on the Oregon Trail and then make life or death decisions along the virtual way; nor will the PARCC require them to design, implement, document and report on a science experiment of their choosing or create and act out an original play to illustrate a historical biography -- but those things are examples of what is in the curriculum and how the subjects are taught). But OP isn't looking at Murch, so no need to go into it further here, but letting that misinformation stand seemed really unfair to some excellent teachers. I will say that IME (K-5 with more than one kid there now), my answer to everything listed in OPs later questions ("does the school/does your child") is a resounding yes.

It is true that 5th grade has a fair amount of homework, but it is neither meaningless, nor crushing, and the subject-matter teachers coordinate the homework schedule to prevent overload from any one of them on a given day. In part, it is purposefully teaching time management, study, and organization skills, which they will need in middle school (e.g., certain assignments are due every other Monday or every other Friday or every Wednesday, so they have plenty of time to find the best time in their own schedules to get it done). It isn't always easy, and communication with teachers about how your child is managing the workload is encouraged and the amount of time to be spent on homework is expressly limited. If it is taking too much time, stop and talk to the teacher. If something isn't working, they are willing to make adjustments. The school expressly does not want the kids to feel crushed, but does want them to be engaged, responsible, independent learners. That's how I see it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of admissions? Or in some other sense? If admissions, you can't count on GDS or Sidwell or JKLM OOB.

I though OP had been accepted at one or more of the privates, and was trying to determine whether to send her child. Her alternative was to move inbounds to one of the M schools. But maybe I got it wrong.

Hi PP, you are right. DC has been accepted to a Big 3 and we are considering as an alternative to move to be IB for a top public school. Nevertheless, as other posters have suggested there are other reasons why we are currently not considering charter schools.

First, let me start saying that I think they are good alternatives, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

That said, I think, after visiting several charters -the ones already mentioned: Yu Ying, Two Rivers, Mundo Verde, Creative Minds plus LAMB- that the only one we might consider -and with a lot of hesitation- is Yu Ying. The reason, acceptable academics -DC CAS, parents feedback-, creative thinking stimulation with an inquiry-based curricula, International Baccalaureate and, above all: Mandarin immersion. We considered LAMB a year ago -not anymore. The reason for not considering the other charters: most of them, in our opinion, are not "consolidated" alternatives. We have seen, for example, grammatical mistakes in some of the Spanish immersion schools, lack of teaching resources in others, and/or we believe that their curriculum / philosophy has not been fully tested yet.

As I said before, we believe they are nice options, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

[Anonymous]

So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

We love (truly love!) the private that has accepted our DC.... but we were impressed as well by Mann (2 teachers per class, amazing principal, great curriculum and philosophy, top-notch facilities, great neighborhood,....) The private option has been always our top choice, but our financial situation is restrictive. It is a big commitment with a lot of ramifications.
So far, DCUM has given me some valuable info I was unaware of (for example, the brain drain in 3rd and 4th grade). In fact, many interesting perspectives. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience. And thanks PP for your good wishes. At the end of the day both options are very good options; I know we are very privileged to have this two alternatives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

We love (truly love!) the private that has accepted our DC.... but we were impressed as well by Mann (2 teachers per class, amazing principal, great curriculum and philosophy, top-notch facilities, great neighborhood,....) The private option has been always our top choice, but our financial situation is restrictive. It is a big commitment with a lot of ramifications.
So far, DCUM has given me some valuable info I was unaware of (for example, the brain drain in 3rd and 4th grade). In fact, many interesting perspectives. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience. And thanks PP for your good wishes. At the end of the day both options are very good options; I know we are very privileged to have this two alternatives.

Just my 2 cents OP, from a financial perspective, it is best to do a great public and save your money for retirement and college if it will be a strain at all.

Think about tuition increases, etc. Again, wish you the best no matter what, but try and get some objective financial advise from an advisor prior to committing to the tuition and it might influence your decision. Even if you only do public for PK -3, for two kids that is 8*40k, which if put into savings will be a lot more money later. Compound interest. And remember, even at Hardy, your kids will learn about compound interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

We love (truly love!) the private that has accepted our DC.... but we were impressed as well by Mann (2 teachers per class, amazing principal, great curriculum and philosophy, top-notch facilities, great neighborhood,....) The private option has been always our top choice, but our financial situation is restrictive. It is a big commitment with a lot of ramifications.
So far, DCUM has given me some valuable info I was unaware of (for example, the brain drain in 3rd and 4th grade). In fact, many interesting perspectives. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience. And thanks PP for your good wishes. At the end of the day both options are very good options; I know we are very privileged to have this two alternatives.

Just my 2 cents OP, from a financial perspective, it is best to do a great public and save your money for retirement and college if it will be a strain at all.

Think about tuition increases, etc. Again, wish you the best no matter what, but try and get some objective financial advise from an advisor prior to committing to the tuition and it might influence your decision. Even if you only do public for PK -3, for two kids that is 8*40k, which if put into savings will be a lot more money later. Compound interest. And remember, even at Hardy, your kids will learn about compound interest.

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

We love (truly love!) the private that has accepted our DC.... but we were impressed as well by Mann (2 teachers per class, amazing principal, great curriculum and philosophy, top-notch facilities, great neighborhood,....) The private option has been always our top choice, but our financial situation is restrictive. It is a big commitment with a lot of ramifications.
So far, DCUM has given me some valuable info I was unaware of (for example, the brain drain in 3rd and 4th grade). In fact, many interesting perspectives. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience. And thanks PP for your good wishes. At the end of the day both options are very good options; I know we are very privileged to have this two alternatives.

Just my 2 cents OP, from a financial perspective, it is best to do a great public and save your money for retirement and college if it will be a strain at all.

Think about tuition increases, etc. Again, wish you the best no matter what, but try and get some objective financial advise from an advisor prior to committing to the tuition and it might influence your decision. Even if you only do public for PK -3, for two kids that is 8*40k, which if put into savings will be a lot more money later. Compound interest. And remember, even at Hardy, your kids will learn about compound interest.

Mann parent here - MOST of the Mann kids go private. For STA/NCS it is 4th grade that is the entry year, quite a few other privates have now made openings in 6th (when we started Mann with our first child, all DCPS elementary schools went through 6th grade), Michelle Rhee changed it when it was basically too late to apply for private school and then had to reverse herself for one year. Of course at that time all Mann kids had the informal option of going to Deal as well - the principal actively recruited them! Times have changed pretty rapidly in DCPS, but Mann has not. When I went to private school most of the kids who joined our class from DCPS came from Mann, and that was 40 odd years ago, but it is relevant only to the extent that this is one of the reasons we felt completely comfortable sending our kids. Hearing about your financial situation is a game changer in terms of the advice I would give you.

If it is any financial strain at all I would not do it. We are friends with many private school parents and have not seen many differences, except that those who are concerned that their kids will not be competitive later on tend to put them in to privates from the get go. Mann has an established record of getting kids into private school - that is most of what they do - not saying this correctly - that is where most Mann kids end up. The principal's son went to Mann before he left for St. Alban's. I would really urge you not to put the financial pressure on yourself earlier than necessary - not having that allowed us to take nice vacations, and if you are an involved parent if there is something you think needs to be supplemented, you do. It is an international community, and that was important to us because it meant that our kids kept up their native language just by making friends who spoke it. At the risk of sounding over the top, but hearing that it would be a financial strain, especially with two kids, I would go to Mann. We have never regretted it for any kid, the have all landed happily ever afterwards - and we have way more than two

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, either it would be a financial strain at the Big 3 or are you simply having a struggle to make the decision OP? I doubt DCUM will give you much insight, but good luck in deciding.

We love (truly love!) the private that has accepted our DC.... but we were impressed as well by Mann (2 teachers per class, amazing principal, great curriculum and philosophy, top-notch facilities, great neighborhood,....) The private option has been always our top choice, but our financial situation is restrictive. It is a big commitment with a lot of ramifications.
So far, DCUM has given me some valuable info I was unaware of (for example, the brain drain in 3rd and 4th grade). In fact, many interesting perspectives. Thanks again to everyone who has shared their experience. And thanks PP for your good wishes. At the end of the day both options are very good options; I know we are very privileged to have this two alternatives.

Just my 2 cents OP, from a financial perspective, it is best to do a great public and save your money for retirement and college if it will be a strain at all.

Think about tuition increases, etc. Again, wish you the best no matter what, but try and get some objective financial advise from an advisor prior to committing to the tuition and it might influence your decision. Even if you only do public for PK -3, for two kids that is 8*40k, which if put into savings will be a lot more money later. Compound interest. And remember, even at Hardy, your kids will learn about compound interest.

Mann parent here - MOST of the Mann kids go private. For STA/NCS it is 4th grade that is the entry year, quite a few other privates have now made openings in 6th (when we started Mann with our first child, all DCPS elementary schools went through 6th grade), Michelle Rhee changed it when it was basically too late to apply for private school and then had to reverse herself for one year. Of course at that time all Mann kids had the informal option of going to Deal as well - the principal actively recruited them! Times have changed pretty rapidly in DCPS, but Mann has not. When I went to private school most of the kids who joined our class from DCPS came from Mann, and that was 40 odd years ago, but it is relevant only to the extent that this is one of the reasons we felt completely comfortable sending our kids. Hearing about your financial situation is a game changer in terms of the advice I would give you.

If it is any financial strain at all I would not do it. We are friends with many private school parents and have not seen many differences, except that those who are concerned that their kids will not be competitive later on tend to put them in to privates from the get go. Mann has an established record of getting kids into private school - that is most of what they do - not saying this correctly - that is where most Mann kids end up. The principal's son went to Mann before he left for St. Alban's. I would really urge you not to put the financial pressure on yourself earlier than necessary - not having that allowed us to take nice vacations, and if you are an involved parent if there is something you think needs to be supplemented, you do. It is an international community, and that was important to us because it meant that our kids kept up their native language just by making friends who spoke it. At the risk of sounding over the top, but hearing that it would be a financial strain, especially with two kids, I would go to Mann. We have never regretted it for any kid, the have all landed happily ever afterwards - and we have way more than two

I think OP never said that she has more than one kid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of admissions? Or in some other sense? If admissions, you can't count on GDS or Sidwell or JKLM OOB.

I though OP had been accepted at one or more of the privates, and was trying to determine whether to send her child. Her alternative was to move inbounds to one of the M schools. But maybe I got it wrong.

Hi PP, you are right. DC has been accepted to a Big 3 and we are considering as an alternative to move to be IB for a top public school. Nevertheless, as other posters have suggested there are other reasons why we are currently not considering charter schools.

First, let me start saying that I think they are good alternatives, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

That said, I think, after visiting several charters -the ones already mentioned: Yu Ying, Two Rivers, Mundo Verde, Creative Minds plus LAMB- that the only one we might consider [b]-and with a lot of hesitation- is[/b] Yu Ying. The reason, acceptable academics -DC CAS, parents feedback-, creative thinking stimulation with an inquiry-based curricula, International Baccalaureate and, above all: Mandarin immersion. We considered LAMB a year ago -not anymore. The reason for not considering the other charters: most of them, in our opinion, are not "consolidated" alternatives. We have seen, for example, grammatical mistakes in some of the Spanish immersion schools, lack of teaching resources in others, and/or we believe that their curriculum / philosophy has not been fully tested yet.

As I said before, we believe they are nice options, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

Could you please expand on what your hesitations are re: Yu Ying? Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In terms of admissions? Or in some other sense? If admissions, you can't count on GDS or Sidwell or JKLM OOB.

I though OP had been accepted at one or more of the privates, and was trying to determine whether to send her child. Her alternative was to move inbounds to one of the M schools. But maybe I got it wrong.

Hi PP, you are right. DC has been accepted to a Big 3 and we are considering as an alternative to move to be IB for a top public school. Nevertheless, as other posters have suggested there are other reasons why we are currently not considering charter schools.

First, let me start saying that I think they are good alternatives, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

That said, I think, after visiting several charters -the ones already mentioned: Yu Ying, Two Rivers, Mundo Verde, Creative Minds plus LAMB- that the only one we might consider [b]-and with a lot of hesitation- is[/b] Yu Ying. The reason, acceptable academics -DC CAS, parents feedback-, creative thinking stimulation with an inquiry-based curricula, International Baccalaureate and, above all: Mandarin immersion. We considered LAMB a year ago -not anymore. The reason for not considering the other charters: most of them, in our opinion, are not "consolidated" alternatives. We have seen, for example, grammatical mistakes in some of the Spanish immersion schools, lack of teaching resources in others, and/or we believe that their curriculum / philosophy has not been fully tested yet.

As I said before, we believe they are nice options, but giving our current priorities they are not necessarily for us.

Could you please expand on what your hesitations are re: Yu Ying? Thanks in advance.

Hi! Well, first let me say that Yu Ying is our top choice in the Lottery and that I have not experienced the school from the inside, so basically is an "outsider's" perception.
The hesitation comes from the fact that I think YY is a less consolidated option (i.e. growing pains, more to prove) and that I didn't have the feeling that the teaching philosophy was so stimulating and comprehensive on the early years as the other alternatives we are considering. I didn't love the facilities either.
That said, the Mandarin immersion is a "deal maker". Seriously, I think that is an amazing opportunity for our DC. On the minus side, I questioned myself how I could facilitate the learning experience of my DC if I do not speak Mandarin. Another thing that puzzles me is if a Mandarin environment could put a lot (too much) pressure on my DC.
Hope its helpful.
Best.