Why do people still think that these ferocious dog breeds are safe and should be tolerated?

[Anonymous]

I have known them--a nearby neighbor (Man in his 60's) has a white one that looks adorable--but he walks it off leash and allows it it to dump big sh*ts all over AU Park. I don't doubt they are wonderful to their human owners--I didn't purposely omit anything in my post; I provided the link My issue is their dog aggression. I have an air dale that I keep muzzled and do not take him off leash--we have a huge back yard by DC standards so he can run back there. We do 3 30 minute walks a day and that keeps his aggression to a minimum. You can't do that with a pit bull. They have a high KILL potential with other dogs. I hate that they ruin it for all dog owners at the dog park--I can't even us Battery Kemble because of all the galloping pits and their "oh she's just a big baby" type owners. Wish that everyone would take the time to take their dog to a behaviorist/trainer AND wish they would just ban this breed in America. In 5-10 years the breed would be dead. But then the pit bull wing nuts would just find some other crazy cause that infringes on everyone else's safety, no doubt.

You sound like a responsible owner, kudos to you. And, you are describing irresponsible dog owners, I see them too. People who do not pick up after their dogs makes me nuts, but that is not a pit bull specific problem. I have seen all kinds of irresponsible dog owners in dog parks, and that makes me nuts too. No matter what the dog, you ahve to be responsible. I think we agree on that.

Also, thank you for acknowledging that they are wonderful around people.

I have a problem with you saying you cannot exercise or train a pit bull. My pit bull was in obedience class and was a shining star. I think all dogs should be well trained and socialized. Please watch the video I posted, you can see all kinds of examples of well socialized pit bulls. Also, breed specific legislation (bans on pit bulls) are expensive and don't work. Would you really want to take away people's family dogs and service dogs and have them killed? That is pretty cruel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ I meant you can't just exercise the aggression out of a pit. THEY ARE BRED TO BE DOG KILLERS. More often than other breeds that aggression spills over into humans--there are too many ex. to even cite here. Why are people championing a dangerous instrumentality this way. SIMPLE. misplaced obsession with lost causes and hopeless cases. People are working out they personal weakness by adopt a dangerous dog. It's sad and misguided and in many cases, deadly.

I guess the people who have them working with kids with autism, or on search and rescue teams or with wounded war veterans have personal weaknesses and are misguided?

I'm guessing this is the same person who refuses to watch the video (http://www.thedogfiles.com/2010/10/11/pit-proud-the-history-of-the-pit-bull/) or educate his or herself on the breed.

Can you please provide one of the "too many to even cite" examples of your concern? Please read through past posts, and do not copy something that has already been debunked.

[Anonymous]

People are working out they personal weakness by adopt a dangerous dog.

Before I got my pit, I too was scared of them, and didn't even exactly know what they looked like (I thought they all looked like Staffies). I fell in love a gentle, sweet kid and dog friendly dog at a rescue event and brought him home. Turns out he is an American Pit Bull Terrier. Four years later, he is still as kid and dog friendly as ever and would lick your face even if you called him dangerous and said he should be euthanized.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have no issue with the existence of these types or dogs per se as pets however I think that given the size and strength of some dog breeds in general This could all be resolved with simple muzzle laws. If you'd ike to bring your pet out in public with other people then you have to offer the rest of us some certainty that we will be safe. Seems simple to me.

First, kudos to you for understanding people's right to own a dog and for not jumping on the ban them all bandwagon.

I'd just like to point out people think pit bulls are bigger than they are - usually 40-55 lbs. A standard golden is 55-75 lbs. Also, their jaw strength is less than that of the average dog:

Tests that have been done comparing the bite pressure of several
breeds showed pressure PSI (per square inch) to be considerably lower
than some wild estimates that have been made. Testing has shown that
the domestic dog averages about 320 lbs of pressure per square inch.
Recently Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic conducted a comparative
test between a Pit Bull, a Rottweiler, and a German Shepherd. The Pit
Bull had the LOWEST PSI OF THE THREE.

The highest pressure recorded from the Pit Bull was 235 lbs PSI. The
highest from the GSD was 238, and the highest from the Rott was 328.
Dr. Barr states that as far as he knows, the PSI tested in the Rott is the
highest on record for any domestic canine.

Should a dog that is prone to bite or who has a bite history be muzzled in public? Absolutely. But, this needs to be on a case by case basis and not generalized to all of one type of dog. In public, my dogs have never bitten or attempted to bite a dog, but they have been bitten and attacked by chihuahuas, daschunds and a poodle mix. Even when my dogs were attacked, they did not fight back, they tried to run. In these cases, the other dogs were the ones that needed muzzles.

You know what the problem is with these numbers? All you need to rip someone's face off is 235 PSI...even less. So the question is, which dog is most likely to bite, second question is which one bite the hardest, i.e. which one kills instantly and which one needs to take two bites to sever a carotid artery.

And which dog is most likely to bite?

An untrained dog. Especially a male unneutered dog that has experienced being chained (chaining and not being neutered increases aggression). What is more likely to bite? An untrained unneutered male lab or a trained neutered (or female) pitbull? Again. Breed is not the determining factor.

Compare an untrained intact male lab to an untrained intact male pit bull...

Yes...?? If you don't think a lab can be aggressive, then you have never been around dogs.

Never said the lab is not dangerous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those trying to say any dog can be aggressive, how many times do you read about beagles maiming or killing children?

I ADORE beagles. Actually, beagles and pit bulls are my two favorite breeds.That being said, I met a neighbor who had two, one had been abused prior to him owning it. He warned me not to touch the beagle or let the dogs near it because it mauled his arm. He had a massive scar from it. Also, why on walks with our dogs, my husband and I frequently had an angry and aggressive beagle growl, bark and dart at us. IF we got close enough, he probably would have bitten.

You really don't think any dog that is abused and mistreated an be aggressive? Then, you need to get your head out of the sand. I worked at a vet clinic for 4 years, I was never bitten by a pit. I was bitten by a dalmation, a rottie, chihuahua and a chow.

PP, it seems that you may be drawn to this breed because you too are relentless and almost irrational. The pit bull terrier is an overly aggressive dog that was BRED TO FIGHT AND KILL OTHER DOGS. What is there about that that you don't understand? Sure it can be a loving companion to a person or a family--why do you need to walk around with a loaded cannon? Your irrational devotion to such a dangerous breed is threat to other dog owners everywhere:
PIT BULL TERRIER

Is this breed good with other dogs in general?

The short answer is no. Developed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, most pit bulls are dog aggressive, at least to some degree. Some pit bulls will simply not tolerate any other dogs, regardless of sex. A few pit bulls will remain dog friendly their entire lives, but they are a minority.The majority of pit bulls are at least same sex aggressive and as adults will not do well with other dogs of the same sex or those that are "pushy" with them, although as pups they may get along fine (this can be very misleading to a novice pit bull owner). Pit bulls will commonly start developing signs of dog aggression between the ages of 8 months and 2 years, although it can develop at any age and can come on either gradually or quite suddenly. It is important to note that many pit bulls do not display the "typical" signs of dog aggression before a fight. They may not growl, bark, or posture at all, but simply alert and raise up on their toes. Owners of dog aggressive pit bulls learn to "read" their dogs and recognize the subtle signs indicating impending dog aggression. Training will not eliminate dog aggression in the pit bull but, when combined with responsibility and vigilance, training can bring these natural tendencies under control in on-leash situations. Where housemates are concerned, if one is a pit bull, extra care should be taken to prevent tension over food, desirable treats (like bones), and favored toys. These items are often "triggers" for spats or fights between dogs sharing the same house and owners should be very aware of them. This is also the reason that an adult pit bull should NOT be left alone with housemates or other dogs. Due to their fighting heritage, many pit bulls do not recognize signs of submission given by a dog they are fighting and, if they are unsupervised, the results can be disastrous. It should be noted that many breeds have dog aggressive tendencies, and leaving any such breed unsupervised with another dog, especially a dog of the same sex, can lead to a tragedy.

http://www.rescueeverydog.org/pitbull_breed.html

Ha - "loaded cannon" - you must work for the press! So dramatic!

Also, I LOVE how you selectively left out this information from this website:

Personality:
Pit bulls tend to be very dependent on their humans and crave love and attention.

On average, pit bulls tend to be very confident and outgoing dogs. However, their natural confidence can be eroded by severe abuse or long confinement with little human contact.

Is this breed good with children in general?
This breed tends to love all people, especially children. The only caution I would add is that, because they are very exuberant and energetic dogs, they can sometimes overwhelm very young children and accidentally bump them or knock them over, particularly when they are pups (under 2 years old).

Just so you know, I love all breeds. I defend pit bulls because they are amazing and are over represented and killed at an alarming rate in shelters. I am not irrational, just empathetic. Have you ever met a pit bull or owned one? Just wondering about your experience.

I have found that these web sites says something positive about every breed. It has always been a frustration that they will never say in simple words that such and such breed is not bright and hard to train, let alone aggression.

[Anonymous]

At present, the insurance industry is attempting to sell homeowner insurance policies that exclude dog-inflicted injuries. Some insurance companies refuse to sell homeowner insurance to the owners of breeds of dogs that have a reputation for biting, such as pit bulls, Rottweilers, Akitas and Chow-Chows. Other insurers refuse to sell to anyone who owns any dog whatsoever. (See Breed specific laws, regulations and bans.) An article in the Wall Street Journal summed up the problem this way:

Some big insurers, including Allstate and Farmers Insurance Group, won't cover homes in some states if residents own certain breeds. Others exclude some breeds from liability coverage, or charge extra for it. The so-called vicious-breed lists include German shepherds, Akitas and Siberian huskies, along with Alaskan Malamutes, Chow Chows, Doberman Pinschers, American pit bull terriers and their cousins. (M.P. McQueen, "Snarling at Insurers," Wall Street Journal, July 18, 2006.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

I have known them--a nearby neighbor (Man in his 60's) has a white one that looks adorable--but he walks it off leash and allows it it to dump big sh*ts all over AU Park. I don't doubt they are wonderful to their human owners--I didn't purposely omit anything in my post; I provided the link My issue is their dog aggression. I have an air dale that I keep muzzled and do not take him off leash--we have a huge back yard by DC standards so he can run back there. We do 3 30 minute walks a day and that keeps his aggression to a minimum. You can't do that with a pit bull. They have a high KILL potential with other dogs. I hate that they ruin it for all dog owners at the dog park--I can't even us Battery Kemble because of all the galloping pits and their "oh she's just a big baby" type owners. Wish that everyone would take the time to take their dog to a behaviorist/trainer AND wish they would just ban this breed in America. In 5-10 years the breed would be dead. But then the pit bull wing nuts would just find some other crazy cause that infringes on everyone else's safety, no doubt.

You sound like a responsible owner, kudos to you. And, you are describing irresponsible dog owners, I see them too. People who do not pick up after their dogs makes me nuts, but that is not a pit bull specific problem. I have seen all kinds of irresponsible dog owners in dog parks, and that makes me nuts too. No matter what the dog, you ahve to be responsible. I think we agree on that.

Also, thank you for acknowledging that they are wonderful around people.

I have a problem with you saying you cannot exercise or train a pit bull. My pit bull was in obedience class and was a shining star. I think all dogs should be well trained and socialized. Please watch the video I posted, you can see all kinds of examples of well socialized pit bulls. Also, breed specific legislation (bans on pit bulls) are expensive and don't work. Would you really want to take away people's family dogs and service dogs and have them killed? That is pretty cruel.

No I wouldn't, but they could ban all future breeding or adoption of the dogs. And put down the ones in shelters. The breed would die out soon after. People would definitely inform on neighbors if they got one after they had been banned. And the cost to society for allowing these breeds to continue unabated is much higher than the cost of enforcement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For those trying to say any dog can be aggressive, how many times do you read about beagles maiming or killing children?

I ADORE beagles. Actually, beagles and pit bulls are my two favorite breeds.That being said, I met a neighbor who had two, one had been abused prior to him owning it. He warned me not to touch the beagle or let the dogs near it because it mauled his arm. He had a massive scar from it. Also, why on walks with our dogs, my husband and I frequently had an angry and aggressive beagle growl, bark and dart at us. IF we got close enough, he probably would have bitten.

You really don't think any dog that is abused and mistreated an be aggressive? Then, you need to get your head out of the sand. I worked at a vet clinic for 4 years, I was never bitten by a pit. I was bitten by a dalmation, a rottie, chihuahua and a chow.

PP, it seems that you may be drawn to this breed because you too are relentless and almost irrational. The pit bull terrier is an overly aggressive dog that was BRED TO FIGHT AND KILL OTHER DOGS. What is there about that that you don't understand? Sure it can be a loving companion to a person or a family--why do you need to walk around with a loaded cannon? Your irrational devotion to such a dangerous breed is threat to other dog owners everywhere:
PIT BULL TERRIER

Is this breed good with other dogs in general?

The short answer is no. Developed for the purpose of fighting other dogs, most pit bulls are dog aggressive, at least to some degree. Some pit bulls will simply not tolerate any other dogs, regardless of sex. A few pit bulls will remain dog friendly their entire lives, but they are a minority.The majority of pit bulls are at least same sex aggressive and as adults will not do well with other dogs of the same sex or those that are "pushy" with them, although as pups they may get along fine (this can be very misleading to a novice pit bull owner). Pit bulls will commonly start developing signs of dog aggression between the ages of 8 months and 2 years, although it can develop at any age and can come on either gradually or quite suddenly. It is important to note that many pit bulls do not display the "typical" signs of dog aggression before a fight. They may not growl, bark, or posture at all, but simply alert and raise up on their toes. Owners of dog aggressive pit bulls learn to "read" their dogs and recognize the subtle signs indicating impending dog aggression. Training will not eliminate dog aggression in the pit bull but, when combined with responsibility and vigilance, training can bring these natural tendencies under control in on-leash situations. Where housemates are concerned, if one is a pit bull, extra care should be taken to prevent tension over food, desirable treats (like bones), and favored toys. These items are often "triggers" for spats or fights between dogs sharing the same house and owners should be very aware of them. This is also the reason that an adult pit bull should NOT be left alone with housemates or other dogs. Due to their fighting heritage, many pit bulls do not recognize signs of submission given by a dog they are fighting and, if they are unsupervised, the results can be disastrous. It should be noted that many breeds have dog aggressive tendencies, and leaving any such breed unsupervised with another dog, especially a dog of the same sex, can lead to a tragedy.

http://www.rescueeverydog.org/pitbull_breed.html

Ha - "loaded cannon" - you must work for the press! So dramatic!

Also, I LOVE how you selectively left out this information from this website:

Personality:
Pit bulls tend to be very dependent on their humans and crave love and attention.

On average, pit bulls tend to be very confident and outgoing dogs. However, their natural confidence can be eroded by severe abuse or long confinement with little human contact.

Is this breed good with children in general?
This breed tends to love all people, especially children. The only caution I would add is that, because they are very exuberant and energetic dogs, they can sometimes overwhelm very young children and accidentally bump them or knock them over, particularly when they are pups (under 2 years old).

Just so you know, I love all breeds. I defend pit bulls because they are amazing and are over represented and killed at an alarming rate in shelters. I am not irrational, just empathetic. Have you ever met a pit bull or owned one? Just wondering about your experience.

I have found that these web sites says something positive about every breed. It has always been a frustration that they will never say in simple words that such and such breed is not bright and hard to train, let alone aggression.

Yes. But can we all agree that Dalmatians are dumb dogs, impossible to train and are terrible with children? Good that's sorted, then.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have known them--a nearby neighbor (Man in his 60's) has a white one that looks adorable--but he walks it off leash and allows it it to dump big sh*ts all over AU Park. I don't doubt they are wonderful to their human owners--I didn't purposely omit anything in my post; I provided the link My issue is their dog aggression. I have an air dale that I keep muzzled and do not take him off leash--we have a huge back yard by DC standards so he can run back there. We do 3 30 minute walks a day and that keeps his aggression to a minimum. You can't do that with a pit bull. They have a high KILL potential with other dogs. I hate that they ruin it for all dog owners at the dog park--I can't even us Battery Kemble because of all the galloping pits and their "oh she's just a big baby" type owners. Wish that everyone would take the time to take their dog to a behaviorist/trainer AND wish they would just ban this breed in America. In 5-10 years the breed would be dead. But then the pit bull wing nuts would just find some other crazy cause that infringes on everyone else's safety, no doubt.

You sound like a responsible owner, kudos to you. And, you are describing irresponsible dog owners, I see them too. People who do not pick up after their dogs makes me nuts, but that is not a pit bull specific problem. I have seen all kinds of irresponsible dog owners in dog parks, and that makes me nuts too. No matter what the dog, you ahve to be responsible. I think we agree on that.

Also, thank you for acknowledging that they are wonderful around people.

I have a problem with you saying you cannot exercise or train a pit bull. My pit bull was in obedience class and was a shining star. I think all dogs should be well trained and socialized. Please watch the video I posted, you can see all kinds of examples of well socialized pit bulls. Also, breed specific legislation (bans on pit bulls) are expensive and don't work. Would you really want to take away people's family dogs and service dogs and have them killed? That is pretty cruel.

No I wouldn't, but they could ban all future breeding or adoption of the dogs. And put down the ones in shelters. The breed would die out soon after. People would definitely inform on neighbors if they got one after they had been banned. And the cost to society for allowing these breeds to continue unabated is much higher than the cost of enforcement.

But, as you can see from this post

Some big insurers, including Allstate and Farmers Insurance Group, won't cover homes in some states if residents own certain breeds. Others exclude some breeds from liability coverage, or charge extra for it. The so-called vicious-breed lists include German shepherds, Akitas and Siberian huskies, along with Alaskan Malamutes, Chow Chows, Doberman Pinschers, American pit bull terriers and their cousins. (M.P. McQueen, "Snarling at Insurers," Wall Street Journal, July 18, 2006.)

There are many breeds labeled as vicious. Should we kill all of those in shelters and ban them too? Where do you draw the line? Also, are you going to DNA test "pit bulls" before killing and banning them. And, if so, are you banning APBT, Staffies, American Staffies?

[Anonymous]

Labs are overbred. Everyone knows this. And they eat sofas unless they are given 3-4 hours on the treadmill or out in a field chasing maimed ducks into the brush or into water. Get an Airedale.

[Anonymous]

Yes. But can we all agree that Dalmatians are dumb dogs, impossible to train and are terrible with children? Good that's sorted, then.

Easy now, I have met some nice, smart ones. I've never tried to train them, and I also almost had my nose taken off by one, but I won't say they are all bad. Just like pit bulls, got to evaluate and make decisions on a case by case basis. But, then again, according to people on this page, I am a "pit bull nut" who is off her "reservation." So, what do I know?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I have known them--a nearby neighbor (Man in his 60's) has a white one that looks adorable--but he walks it off leash and allows it it to dump big sh*ts all over AU Park. I don't doubt they are wonderful to their human owners--I didn't purposely omit anything in my post; I provided the link My issue is their dog aggression. I have an air dale that I keep muzzled and do not take him off leash--we have a huge back yard by DC standards so he can run back there. We do 3 30 minute walks a day and that keeps his aggression to a minimum. You can't do that with a pit bull. They have a high KILL potential with other dogs. I hate that they ruin it for all dog owners at the dog park--I can't even us Battery Kemble because of all the galloping pits and their "oh she's just a big baby" type owners. Wish that everyone would take the time to take their dog to a behaviorist/trainer AND wish they would just ban this breed in America. In 5-10 years the breed would be dead. But then the pit bull wing nuts would just find some other crazy cause that infringes on everyone else's safety, no doubt.

You sound like a responsible owner, kudos to you. And, you are describing irresponsible dog owners, I see them too. People who do not pick up after their dogs makes me nuts, but that is not a pit bull specific problem. I have seen all kinds of irresponsible dog owners in dog parks, and that makes me nuts too. No matter what the dog, you ahve to be responsible. I think we agree on that.

Also, thank you for acknowledging that they are wonderful around people.

I have a problem with you saying you cannot exercise or train a pit bull. My pit bull was in obedience class and was a shining star. I think all dogs should be well trained and socialized. Please watch the video I posted, you can see all kinds of examples of well socialized pit bulls. Also, breed specific legislation (bans on pit bulls) are expensive and don't work. Would you really want to take away people's family dogs and service dogs and have them killed? That is pretty cruel.

No I wouldn't, but they could ban all future breeding or adoption of the dogs. And put down the ones in shelters. The breed would die out soon after. People would definitely inform on neighbors if they got one after they had been banned. And the cost to society for allowing these breeds to continue unabated is much higher than the cost of enforcement.

But, as you can see from this post

Some big insurers, including Allstate and Farmers Insurance Group, won't cover homes in some states if residents own certain breeds. Others exclude some breeds from liability coverage, or charge extra for it. The so-called vicious-breed lists include German shepherds, Akitas and Siberian huskies, along with Alaskan Malamutes, Chow Chows, Doberman Pinschers, American pit bull terriers and their cousins. (M.P. McQueen, "Snarling at Insurers," Wall Street Journal, July 18, 2006.)

There are many breeds labeled as vicious. Should we kill all of those in shelters and ban them too? Where do you draw the line? Also, are you going to DNA test "pit bulls" before killing and banning them. And, if so, are you banning APBT, Staffies, American Staffies?

Yes, kill the ones in shelters and the other ones listed in the UK. APBT, Staffies and Am Staffies. There'll still be a bazillion other dogs to choose from.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Labs are overbred. Everyone knows this. And they eat sofas unless they are given 3-4 hours on the treadmill or out in a field chasing maimed ducks into the brush or into water. Get an Airedale.

Admittedly, I know nothing about Airdales. They are probably great. But, just to prove a point, you can find bad press on just about every breed, be it a pit, a lab or an airedale (from http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/airedales.html):

A rowdy handful as a puppy, the Airedale Terrier matures into a dignified, self-assured, courageous adult.

This athletic dog romps and plays hard. Without vigorous exercise and lots of personal interaction, he is easily bored and may become destructive as he seeks to entertain himself.

Young Airedale Terriers are especially rambunctious and can turn your garden into a moonscape of excavated moles and tulip bulbs.

Mental stimulation (hunting, obedience, agility, playing games) is essential for this thinking breed. You can't just leave him alone all day or stick him outside and hope that he'll lie down quietly and be happy.

[Anonymous]

Yes, kill the ones in shelters and the other ones listed in the UK. APBT, Staffies and Am Staffies. There'll still be a bazillion other dogs to choose from.

So, don't evaluate each one's temperament? You don't mind killing amazing dogs?

Also, have you been to a DC shelter lately (I was there 2 months ago), the majority are pits. You will not have a bazillion other dogs to choose from. And, you will be killing some of the sweetest family dogs a person could own.

As a dog owner, I think you would appreciate this if you watch it: http://www.thedogfiles.com/2010/10/11/pit-proud-the-history-of-the-pit-bull/

Please let me know what you think, after you watch this.

[Anonymous]

People just dont understand that dogs arent bred to be aggressive! ANY dog can be aggressive. It depends on how the owner trains them. Poeple are the ones giving dogs bad reputations because of training them to fight, teasing them, abuse, neglect. I have a Jack Russell that can be aggressive sometimes! He's an 8lb little dog, not a big dog like everyone is afraid of. Educate yourself a little more before bashing so called aggressive breeds!!