County-wide magnet/IB/GE/Humanity programs will become regional programs if the secondary program plan is passed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Please be specific about which classes will unable to be staffed. I don't think you are correct.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

It is silly to think that you can't find adjuncts or grad students at the many area colleges who would teach one or two classes, or retired scientists who could do the same. Those unique electives were created by the teachers and if teachers in other programs feel there will be demand, they can create them as well.

For competitions, you can put two regions together to field a team, OR you will find more kids want to participate if the opportunities are closer to home.

The rest of your concerns will not amount to much in most of the regions, as there are many kids capable of high level achievement. There are a couple that look weaker.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Please be specific about which classes will unable to be staffed. I don't think you are correct.

Check out the IB exam scores and IB tests that were held in each regional programs. https://ww2.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/sharedaccountability/reports/

Some programs only provide a lower level IB math or IB english exams. Only 2 regional IB programs consistently provide IB physics, as another example.

Now let's assume there will be 6 regional SMACS programs. Computer science in Blair currently consists of 7 courses (https://old.mbhs.edu/departments/magnet/courses_cs.php). If any CS teacher is equipped with deep enough understanding of these course material, what motivates the teacher to stay with MCPS instead of finding a triple-pay job in private sector? And what's the training cost to train the current CS teachers to master these materials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

It is silly to think that you can't find adjuncts or grad students at the many area colleges who would teach one or two classes, or retired scientists who could do the same. Those unique electives were created by the teachers and if teachers in other programs feel there will be demand, they can create them as well.

For competitions, you can put two regions together to field a team, OR you will find more kids want to participate if the opportunities are closer to home.

The rest of your concerns will not amount to much in most of the regions, as there are many kids capable of high level achievement. There are a couple that look weaker.

For your information, our superintendent emphasized that they do not plan to hire any new teachers. They just want to train the existing teachers and they do not have any $$ estimates what the costs could be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

You've drunk way too much Kool-aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

Well, you'd have to hire a lot more teachers with expansion, too. The difference is the regional programs would offer the ability for students to have a shorter commute. But as someone else said upthread, 6 regions is probably overkill; maybe 4 or even 2-3 would work better.

Probably a lot less teachers than splitting into 6 programs. If they sincerely want to expand magnet opportunities, they should expand existing programs and add one program somewhere. That’s it.

I agree that a more incremental approach would be better. Add seats to existing programs, open up additional programs one at a time, then re-evaluate. This major overhaul all at once has the potential to be a disaster.

I think while they are re-allocating staff to new high schools, this is a good time to set up all of the programs. In addition, there isn't space at Blair to add more seats. The budget is under stress and it doesn't make sense to add seats to a program that you will take apart in a few years. Kids who would like to access special programming closer to their home will be well served by moving quickly. Rip off the band-aid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen. People are upset because MCPS has a deep history of saying they will offer equivalent enriched courses at home schools (or in this case in home “regions”) but the home option ends up either being watered down, not offered, not equivalent, or yanked after promised.
Examples:
-ELC offered as alternative to CES (especially given lottery admissions), then ELC yanked, and CKLA enriched option allowed to be offered as minimally as 30 minutes a week with no accountability mechanism
-Middle school global humanities offered at home schools to mirror humanities at Eastern. Course is nothing like Eastern, novel studies omitted by teachers without accountability, numerous schools put all students in the enriched course and operate at grade level
-Regional IBs added. Fewer courses than countywide, way lower success rates on IB exams, number of applicants barely exceeds seats so ends up being more of a choice program than an actual criteria program despite how it is presented.

I think the regional idea of expanding seats comes from a good place. But I think in order to do it properly, they need to engage with the community MUCH more in order to understand what drives the decision making of families. The brief out of context survey didn’t get at any of these considerations.

Take me for example. I’m zoned for BCC. We bought in this zone because of a commute in to DC. In two of four options, I will be rezoned to WJ, which is 20 mins away. If I’m in WJ, my region includes Woodward, Wheaton, and Churchill for programs. My kid isn’t a math/science lover, but if she were, we would have considered a top program like Blair, which is in the right direction and not too far. Churchill is like 30 minutes away in the wrong direction. All of these schools in my potential are farther away than BCC or some of the existing magnets. And if admissions criteria are lowered due to so many new spots and programs and teachers are new and untested, a kid in my household probably wouldn’t apply because it doesn’t seem worth it. So any application data DCCAPS thinks they have from past cycles might not be useful or applicable.

Exactly. 700–800 applications to Blair doesn’t translate to the same number for six separate regional programs. Many families will likely be hesitant to apply to new, untested programs. Instead of a major overhaul, MCPS should consider starting with just one additional program to gauge interest and effectiveness before expanding further.

On the other hand, more families may apply that wouldn't have before because they live too far away from Blair or Poolesvile.

MCPS should conduct a thorough and transparent survey before moving forward. There doesn’t appear to be sufficient data to justify launching six regional programs. The current plan feels rushed and lacks clarity in both process and rationale.

How big is fairfax county and how many seats are in TJ?

I would say without doing any survey, comparable number of students will exist in MCPS as with simialr ration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The more the magnet people demand the less amenable I am to them. They want college courses in the school day delivered by a specialized teacher/professor. They can take virtual, they cannot travel, they cannot do anything in the evening.

+1, except many of the posts that you are referring to come from one non-magnet parent at Einstein

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen. People are upset because MCPS has a deep history of saying they will offer equivalent enriched courses at home schools (or in this case in home “regions”) but the home option ends up either being watered down, not offered, not equivalent, or yanked after promised.
Examples:
-ELC offered as alternative to CES (especially given lottery admissions), then ELC yanked, and CKLA enriched option allowed to be offered as minimally as 30 minutes a week with no accountability mechanism
-Middle school global humanities offered at home schools to mirror humanities at Eastern. Course is nothing like Eastern, novel studies omitted by teachers without accountability, numerous schools put all students in the enriched course and operate at grade level
-Regional IBs added. Fewer courses than countywide, way lower success rates on IB exams, number of applicants barely exceeds seats so ends up being more of a choice program than an actual criteria program despite how it is presented.

I think the regional idea of expanding seats comes from a good place. But I think in order to do it properly, they need to engage with the community MUCH more in order to understand what drives the decision making of families. The brief out of context survey didn’t get at any of these considerations.

Take me for example. I’m zoned for BCC. We bought in this zone because of a commute in to DC. In two of four options, I will be rezoned to WJ, which is 20 mins away. If I’m in WJ, my region includes Woodward, Wheaton, and Churchill for programs. My kid isn’t a math/science lover, but if she were, we would have considered a top program like Blair, which is in the right direction and not too far. Churchill is like 30 minutes away in the wrong direction. All of these schools in my potential are farther away than BCC or some of the existing magnets. And if admissions criteria are lowered due to so many new spots and programs and teachers are new and untested, a kid in my household probably wouldn’t apply because it doesn’t seem worth it. So any application data DCCAPS thinks they have from past cycles might not be useful or applicable.

Exactly. 700–800 applications to Blair doesn’t translate to the same number for six separate regional programs. Many families will likely be hesitant to apply to new, untested programs. Instead of a major overhaul, MCPS should consider starting with just one additional program to gauge interest and effectiveness before expanding further.

On the other hand, more families may apply that wouldn't have before because they live too far away from Blair or Poolesvile.

MCPS should conduct a thorough and transparent survey before moving forward. There doesn’t appear to be sufficient data to justify launching six regional programs. The current plan feels rushed and lacks clarity in both process and rationale.

How big is fairfax county and how many seats are in TJ?

I would say without doing any survey, comparable number of students will exist in MCPS as with simialr ration.

Centralized program and fragmented programs will have different demands. Why are you advocating decisions based on insufficient data?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The more the magnet people demand the less amenable I am to them. They want college courses in the school day delivered by a specialized teacher/professor. They can take virtual, they cannot travel, they cannot do anything in the evening.

Magnet has nothing to do with college courses. These kids are in HS, not college and smart kids deserve to have their needs met especially outside the W schools. How about we can strip down the W schools to have all schools offer the same classes and clubs for equity? How would you feel if your child didn't have access to classes they need and want.

Virtual is not offered by MCPS.

Kids are in after school activities and work. Some of these activities are highly skilled and if they take off a year, they lose their spot.

And, travel is an issue with working parents and distance. MC is a minimum of a 90 minute bus ride one way and that's assuming no issues arise. That's not doable for one class 3 times a week. Not all kids drive till senior year and expecting parents to buy a car for one class is absurd.

So, the simple solution is lets equalize all schools and except the magnets, lets get rid of all upper level classes. All math stops at AP BC. No science AP's. None of that extra stuff your school has. Everyone gets exactly the same.

You continue to be so disingenuous. Your school is an IB school, which is why it offers IB Science, rather than AP. You are part of the DCC and could have chosen any number of high schools that offer AP science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

It is silly to think that you can't find adjuncts or grad students at the many area colleges who would teach one or two classes, or retired scientists who could do the same. Those unique electives were created by the teachers and if teachers in other programs feel there will be demand, they can create them as well.

For competitions, you can put two regions together to field a team, OR you will find more kids want to participate if the opportunities are closer to home.

The rest of your concerns will not amount to much in most of the regions, as there are many kids capable of high level achievement. There are a couple that look weaker.

For your information, our superintendent emphasized that they do not plan to hire any new teachers. They just want to train the existing teachers and they do not have any $$ estimates what the costs could be.

Where is the money for training? This is all for show.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The more the magnet people demand the less amenable I am to them. They want college courses in the school day delivered by a specialized teacher/professor. They can take virtual, they cannot travel, they cannot do anything in the evening.

Magnet has nothing to do with college courses. These kids are in HS, not college and smart kids deserve to have their needs met especially outside the W schools. How about we can strip down the W schools to have all schools offer the same classes and clubs for equity? How would you feel if your child didn't have access to classes they need and want.

Virtual is not offered by MCPS.

Kids are in after school activities and work. Some of these activities are highly skilled and if they take off a year, they lose their spot.

And, travel is an issue with working parents and distance. MC is a minimum of a 90 minute bus ride one way and that's assuming no issues arise. That's not doable for one class 3 times a week. Not all kids drive till senior year and expecting parents to buy a car for one class is absurd.

So, the simple solution is lets equalize all schools and except the magnets, lets get rid of all upper level classes. All math stops at AP BC. No science AP's. None of that extra stuff your school has. Everyone gets exactly the same.

You continue to be so disingenuous. Your school is an IB school, which is why it offers IB Science, rather than AP. You are part of the DCC and could have chosen any number of high schools that offer AP science.

You can request a different school, it doesn't mean you get it. We requested other schools and were sent to our home school for one child, the other child got their choice.

All schools should offer AP science.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Listen. People are upset because MCPS has a deep history of saying they will offer equivalent enriched courses at home schools (or in this case in home “regions”) but the home option ends up either being watered down, not offered, not equivalent, or yanked after promised.
Examples:
-ELC offered as alternative to CES (especially given lottery admissions), then ELC yanked, and CKLA enriched option allowed to be offered as minimally as 30 minutes a week with no accountability mechanism
-Middle school global humanities offered at home schools to mirror humanities at Eastern. Course is nothing like Eastern, novel studies omitted by teachers without accountability, numerous schools put all students in the enriched course and operate at grade level
-Regional IBs added. Fewer courses than countywide, way lower success rates on IB exams, number of applicants barely exceeds seats so ends up being more of a choice program than an actual criteria program despite how it is presented.

I think the regional idea of expanding seats comes from a good place. But I think in order to do it properly, they need to engage with the community MUCH more in order to understand what drives the decision making of families. The brief out of context survey didn’t get at any of these considerations.

Take me for example. I’m zoned for BCC. We bought in this zone because of a commute in to DC. In two of four options, I will be rezoned to WJ, which is 20 mins away. If I’m in WJ, my region includes Woodward, Wheaton, and Churchill for programs. My kid isn’t a math/science lover, but if she were, we would have considered a top program like Blair, which is in the right direction and not too far. Churchill is like 30 minutes away in the wrong direction. All of these schools in my potential are farther away than BCC or some of the existing magnets. And if admissions criteria are lowered due to so many new spots and programs and teachers are new and untested, a kid in my household probably wouldn’t apply because it doesn’t seem worth it. So any application data DCCAPS thinks they have from past cycles might not be useful or applicable.

Exactly. 700–800 applications to Blair doesn’t translate to the same number for six separate regional programs. Many families will likely be hesitant to apply to new, untested programs. Instead of a major overhaul, MCPS should consider starting with just one additional program to gauge interest and effectiveness before expanding further.

On the other hand, more families may apply that wouldn't have before because they live too far away from Blair or Poolesvile.

MCPS should conduct a thorough and transparent survey before moving forward. There doesn’t appear to be sufficient data to justify launching six regional programs. The current plan feels rushed and lacks clarity in both process and rationale.

How big is fairfax county and how many seats are in TJ?

I would say without doing any survey, comparable number of students will exist in MCPS as with simialr ration.

Centralized program and fragmented programs will have different demands. Why are you advocating decisions based on insufficient data?

CES is fragmented program with strong demand. I am all for survey or whatever helps, but simply providing a quick short cut to see how many kids can benefit from magnet programs. Ratio of bright kids will remain same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Folks need to get really clear and explicit on what exactly you are worried about losing by these magnets becoming regional. What are the specific classes that there wouldn't be enough kids to support regional programs? Is it just a few high level math and science classes for a couple dozen seniors, or is there anything else?

(If your complaint is just that they shouldn't change because you don't want your kid in class with a 95th percentile kid, you're not gonna get any sympathy or success. You need to spell out "kids will lose access to X and Y.")

DD went to Blair Magnet.

1. Advanced core math courses: functions, analysis 1 (calculus), analysis 2 (multivariable calculus, differential equations). They are incredibly fast-paced and rigorous. You would not be able to implement this with a regional program due to: lack of skilled teachers, inequitable implementation, lack of qualified students in some areas.
2. Unique electives: quantum mechanics, AI, neuroscience, biochemistry, math physics, genetic analysis.... MCPS would not be able to implement this into a regional model. They would all disappear or be a shell of what they used to be.
3. Student body. The Blair magnet takes the top from the county and are all incredibly talented. They are all very passionate in STEM, and their community helps to motivate everyone. They start clubs, do competitions together, and organize STEM activities together. They have an incredibly strong club culture.
4. Competitions: I mentioned that Blair takes the strongest from the county. I heard they recently won the National Science Bowl. They have a quizbowl team, science olympiad team, robotics team, and many more. They compete nationally. Blair offers them a very unique, once in a lifetime opportunity. Not possible if everything is divided.
5. Activities: Blair magnet students organize unique activities all the time. Their math tournament for middle students get 300+ participants each year and is highly successful. Their clubs do community outreach and volunteer. They organize plenty of other opportunities for other students all the time. The scale of these activities is incredibly unique to the magnet.
6. Research: The magnet has a senior research opportunity. The summer before senior year, each student interns in a lab at a university. They are able to write papers and present them to the entire program. Many are recognized for national awards.

I could go on and on. Ideally, I think many students could benefit from this program. But, expansion would mean a lack of resources and would bring everything down equally. Many of the very top students also need a challenge outside of their regular school curriculum, and this program provides exactly that.

But why should MCPS/taxpayers concentrate so many resources for such a small number of kids? It really does not make sense.

Why should MCPS pay for special needs programs? FARMS? ESOL? Therapists? These cost exorbitant amounts of taxpayer dollars, too. I do not benefit from all of these programs. And yet, I continue to support them. Why? Because every student deserves an education that fits their needs.

Students who happen to be talented in academics also deserve a quality education as well. If the regular school curriculumn isn't enough, MCPS should provide opportunities for them. And thus, the magnets.

Or just send them to college classes.

I did that in my flyover country high school when I ran out of math courses to take.

Please read upstream page 2. College classes may offer more than regular high school classes, but they do not even compare to some of the magnets, like Blair.

So now Blair is…better than UMD?

No, but dual enrollment is via Montgomery College, not UMD.

I understand that but if MC doesn’t offer the course then UMD would. Which presumably MCPS could provide for in some fashion.

UMD is a transportation and logistical issue and who pays for it? The discussion is more about the lower income schools which don't have equal classes to the W schools. So, that's an unfair burden to families.

It's funny that many, many people on DCUM have been told to just home school when they expect something not currently offered by their own high school. And they are expected to pay for all transportation and work out logistics. They do not even receive free tuition at MC like ALL OTHER Maryland students, but have to pay for the classes themselves. At a certain point, MCPS needs to maximize the benefit to the largest number of students. The regional proposal will create several programs in each region and put at least one program closer to everyone's home. If that still doesn't work for you, you will have to adjust your expectations or home school.

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Anonymous wrote:NP. It means they will be available only to kids zoned for a school in the same region as the program.

The reason why the current programs are so successful is that MCPS can concentrate resources. If this is expanded, it will dilute everything, and the quality of all the programs would go down drastically. You would not be able to find enough teachers capable of teaching some of these advanced courses.

In addition, I highly doubt all these programs would even be nearly of the same quality if equity is the goal. Look at the current regional IB programs, and compare them to RM.

Every time this comes up I feel the need to remind folks that the regional IB magnets have only been in existence long enough to have ONE graduating class, and continue to lose the strongest students to RMIB. Assuming that outcomes wouldn't improve with this change is not correct.

I would actually agree with you on this. But, this is not the main reason.

The students are a huge factor in determining if the program is successful.

https://app.powerbi.com/view?r=eyJrIjoiNWY4ODhiMmUtNTcwNi00NjEwLTgxZjQtMDQ5MzA1NDQ4MDI3IiwidCI6ImRkZjc1NWU5LWJjZDYtNGE1ZS1hNDcyLTdjMzc4YTc4YzZjNyIsImMiOjF9

If you look at the testing & graduation section for Kennedy, RM, and Whitman, they are not even close to comparable. It is not feasible to offer many of the courses because there are not enough students who are able to fill up the classes. And thus, those at the very top of some regional programs will not have the same opportunity as others.

A strong student body also helps the students. Students who are strong and passionate about a subject will help push each other up so everyone improves. This is not possible with so many regional programs, as the data show.

Additionally, if you create so many programs, you will require so many more teachers. The teachers at the countywides are incredibly skilled, specialized, and unique. They are some of the very best educators in the nation. I doubt you would find enough to equitably staff all the programs.

+1 splitting the 100 or RMIB students across the regions is not going to provide the economies of scale for each of those regional programs to provide the additional courses that RMIB has.

Kennedy has had 4 years to to develop its IB program, yet they still don't have magnet level classes starting in 9th grade from what I saw of the course offerings at Kennedy. RMIB has magnet level classes starting in the 9th grade.

I have a hard time believing that in a county as huge and educated as MoCo, that there are only 100 students per year who are snowflake smart enough to handle a rigorous IB curriculum. I think the real constraint is qualified teachers.

I agree with you. So Blair should become TJ and offer 500 slots per year. But not dividing these kids to 6 regions.

Well, you'd have to hire a lot more teachers with expansion, too. The difference is the regional programs would offer the ability for students to have a shorter commute. But as someone else said upthread, 6 regions is probably overkill; maybe 4 or even 2-3 would work better.

Probably a lot less teachers than splitting into 6 programs. If they sincerely want to expand magnet opportunities, they should expand existing programs and add one program somewhere. That’s it.

I agree that a more incremental approach would be better. Add seats to existing programs, open up additional programs one at a time, then re-evaluate. This major overhaul all at once has the potential to be a disaster.

I think while they are re-allocating staff to new high schools, this is a good time to set up all of the programs. In addition, there isn't space at Blair to add more seats. The budget is under stress and it doesn't make sense to add seats to a program that you will take apart in a few years. Kids who would like to access special programming closer to their home will be well served by moving quickly. Rip off the band-aid.

The program was put at Blair to boost up Blair. They could add different programs to other schools to boost up their scores and make them more desirable. It is better to serve the majority of kids at their home schools and offer more. These schools have lower test scores as the smarter kids leave due to the lack of offerings.