Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states. You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
France and the US are neck-and-neck. 1.64 versus 1.62
Regardless if the generous social benefits in European countries are so effective they would result in higher birth rates than a place like the US. Instead the US and European countries all have very similar birth rates.
at the end of the day what matters is disposable income and salaries, which Europeans have less of. Even a year of paid maternity leave, is only a year.
A lot of the benefits also aren’t as generous as Americans would like to believe. In most countries it’s a max of a few hundred dollars a week. In the UK it’s $250.
Again…the US keeps heading lower…it hasn’t plateaud…the trend is not your friend.
Again, all western countries are in the same range. It’s disingenuous to suggest there is a material difference between Scandinavian countries and the US. Regardless, the US has a higher birth rate than both Norway and Sweden.
The US is declining…that matters…it will be lower unless something dramatic turns it around.
I was responding to whatever the $250 referenced was in the UK.
Ding ding ding!
Here you go. I'll try to dig up the study, but the wealth difference is getting worse. If Europeans only look at glamorous america and social media and the lifestyle they see of their American counterparts who are highly educated white collars-- they definitely don't see the whole picture. The majority of Americans don't have any safety net and live paycheck to paycheck and possibly go without insurance and some medications.
This is often repeated but far from the truth. The US has fairly generous benefits starting with the earned income tax credit that sends thousands back to each low income family.
Then there is Medicaid, state add ons to Medicaid, food stamps, daycare vouchers, subsidized housing etc.
There is far from no safety net. I’d argue the difference is there are not largess social programs for the middle class.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states. You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
France and the US are neck-and-neck. 1.64 versus 1.62
Regardless if the generous social benefits in European countries are so effective they would result in higher birth rates than a place like the US. Instead the US and European countries all have very similar birth rates.
at the end of the day what matters is disposable income and salaries, which Europeans have less of. Even a year of paid maternity leave, is only a year.
A lot of the benefits also aren’t as generous as Americans would like to believe. In most countries it’s a max of a few hundred dollars a week. In the UK it’s $250.
Again…the US keeps heading lower…it hasn’t plateaud…the trend is not your friend.
Again, all western countries are in the same range. It’s disingenuous to suggest there is a material difference between Scandinavian countries and the US. Regardless, the US has a higher birth rate than both Norway and Sweden.
The US is declining…that matters…it will be lower unless something dramatic turns it around.
I was responding to whatever the $250 referenced was in the UK.
Ding ding ding!
Here you go. I'll try to dig up the study, but the wealth difference is getting worse. If Europeans only look at glamorous america and social media and the lifestyle they see of their American counterparts who are highly educated white collars-- they definitely don't see the whole picture. The majority of Americans don't have any safety net and live paycheck to paycheck and possibly go without insurance and some medications.
Here's the study:
https://lisep.org/mql Check out the change in the cost of essentials.
Anonymous wrote:Work isn’t the most important thing in life. If you don’t know that now, you’ll likely realize it on your deathbed.
+1.
European work culture has it right.
Not if you want to actually earn money.
Incorrect. My entire family is in Europe and they make really good money. My H works for an international company and the European are getting paid very well. Americans are buried in debt, the net worth here is actually pretty low.
Exactly. Most Americans have been sold this BS that you have to hustle non-stop in order to make money because that's the only thing that matters in life. Europeans in general have a much better sense of balance and their lives on average are much better than those living in 4000 sq ft houses in the US
If you say so. I personally don’t want to work 5 fewer hours a week so I can cram my entire family into a tiny house. Make fun of large American homes all you want, but they are way more comfortable, and pretty much every European would buy a larger home if they could afford it.
But ask them if they'd give up their work life balance for that bigger paycheck and house, and most would say no. Look at the happiest countries in the world. US doesn't even break the T20. Countries with generous leave make the Top20.
Eh those studies are biased and heavily dependent on how people consider happiness and what their standard is.
so, Americans have more sh&+ but they are still unhappy, work too much, and complain a lot compared to those other countries. Got it.
Don't forget fat. And all that sh* is poor quality. Working 10 hours, commuting 2 more so you can buy polyester at Macy's and overpriced diabetes medication. Don't get me started on the quality of the housing.
Have you even known any Europeans personally? Because I have and I don’t get the impression their lifestyle is much, if at all, better. I’ll give you they eat healthier food and there are fewer overweight people, but I myself am not friends with anyone who is grossly overweight and most people I know eat a healthy diet.
My European friends struggle with the same things as Americans and appear to have a lot less disposable income. What stands out the most is that two white collar professionals have a very limited income that doesn’t allow for outsourcing of any kind. So while they may have an extra 2 weeks of vacation than I do, they can’t afford to go out to dinner as a family, spend their extra time cleaning their house, and vacation by traveling to less expensive locations like Spain. My lifestyle looks opulent compared to theirs and almost embarrassing when they ask me questions about it.
It’s also anecdotal but my European friends appear to have a lot less flexibility at work. I get the impression it’s much more clock in/out mentality and the need to meet every rule, but not a common sense approach to work.
A lot of the advantages they have you could also apply here. You could live in a 1,100 square foot home and commute to work via bus or bike. You could shop at farmers markets and buy less stuff. Here you have the choice.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. I am European who grew up there and whose sister still lives in Italy. My sister and her husband work and make a lot less than I do, but they take a couple of vacations every year, have a house, two cars. They also have an amazing health system, much better food, they come home for a couple of hours every day for lunch, spend a lot more time with their child.
No, they don’t hire someone to clean their house, or to mow their lawn, but it’s hardly a justification for the hamper wheel we have here. I lived and worked in both, you make more money here but at a great cost.
Also lived in Western Europe (and at one point Eastern). Agree with this sentiment completely.
The capitalist mindset is very focused on false “choice,” IMHO. And it’s not made anyone any happier or healthier in this country.
But downside they are stealing from their children and grandchildren to fund the lifestyle. Meaning my old boss in Germany with Free Healthcare, a great pension from Work, beach house, an amazing rent controlled house has great cash flow but nearly all his assets die with him.
The Pension stops, rent control apt stops, his beach house is actually a family house owned by MIL which is communal so cant pass to his kid. He only had one kid.
In the US He would own at time of death, his own primary home mortgage free, his beach house mortgage free, had a large amount of 401k/IRA/Savings Account money save due to higher income. Maybe 2-4 cars or boat. The US is focused on Assets. Plus in Europe next to US the percentage of people who own stocks and real estate is way less. The 16 years has been a massive run up in Real Estate and Stock Prices. My relatives in Europe for instance missed the boat on that as well did a lot of my older european co-workers.
A plan old mid level VP in a Bank in US in DC area is retiring at 65 with two million in 401k/IRAs and a 1.5 million dollar home paid off. That's before any other savings. That 3.5 million would be shocking to a European for a bank VP to have. And if that bank VP dropped dead day one of retirement his wife and kids get it. My old boss with his rental and defined pension lives the high life but he is really passing on nothing much to next generation.
So we should all work like machines to plan for our deaths?
yes in fact. My parents did, they worked like dogs in Europe to get to the USA to have a better life for their kids. They would have been better off staying in long run for themselves. But they got here separately, met and raised 4 kids who all have grad degrees, who all got married, had kids and all bought houses and putting all the kids through college. I am only first generation American but I expect by time my kids have kids they will be summering in Hamptons, Skiing in Aspen, Going to Ivy League schools. Maybe be President of the United States or win American Idol or cure cancer who knows. But if my parents never left their country and met there and had us four kids would have set us back several generations.
Which of the 50+ countries did they come from? That makes a huge difference on whether or not they would have been better off.
Well I live in a two million dollar home and have a beach house and new cars in the driveway. Highly doubt my homeless 6th grade educated parents could have got me very far had they stayed in Europe. I say homeless as one was one of eight the other was one of five. Only the oldest son inherits house and rest must get out. My Mom got kicked out of home at 12. My Dad at 14. In the US got HS degrees at night, bought a house, raised four kids how is that possible in Europe it is not.
Instead they get cheap medical, can go on the dole I guess and sit in a pub drinking pints and smoking and dying young like all my uncles did.
It’s commendable that your parents and family have done so well in the US. But do you understand that not everybody wants to summer in the Hamptons or ski in Aspen? The fact that some people may be happier with less material wealth does not negate the fact that you are very happy with what you have. In fact, there are probably people on both sides of the Atlantic who would be happier if they could swap lives with each other. Nothing wrong with that.
It is irrelevant parents happiness once you marry and have kids. Don't marry or have kids if you want to lay around all day and relax. My one uncle was a lazy bone and he just raised very bitter kids who had to pay their own way through college, left them a near worthless run down shack upon death. He should have not had kids. He put his kids behind a generation or two. My other Uncle worked hard once he had kids, sent them to Law School, Medical School etc set them up for success in life. He was buying stocks and reading Wall Street Journal back in 1960s and 1970s while my other uncle was laying on sofa.
Watch the show Sirens btw and it boils down in life the only thing that matters is will your kids be at your deathbed and did you set your kids and grandkids up for success in life. Nothing else matters. Most of my European relatives have not done that. They are more interested in having a small amount of kids and retiring earlier and could care less about paying for college, buying the kid a car, paying for wedding, leaving an inheritance. Sets kids up for a harder life just so Daddy can drink beers in the pub every night.
I am 100% sure you have no European relatives.
Signed,
An actual European
Funny I was on a flight to Europe last year and lady next to me was from Europe on vacation in US. She lived near where some of my first relatives lives She then made a snotty remark you Americans always think cause your family immigrated from Europe years ago that somehow we might know your relatives. I then said well I have 30 first cousins who live near your and 16 Uncles and Aunts. She then went damm I only have 5 first cousins. I have been to Europe 12 times and going in two week. I have worked for European companies around 15 years of career in the US. It is boring over there.
What is this weird insistence with always saying Europe? Surely you must know that there is a world of difference between Norway and Albania. Why act like Europe is a monolith, as if it's the US with a bunch of states?
Europeans do the same thing. If you are on vacation in Europe they call you American rather than a New Yorker or from DC. They lump our 3,000 miles into one category. It is only 1,800 miles from London to Moscow yet 2,700 miles from DC to LA. I live five minutes from Beltway and in conversation the Europeans at work were shocked I could leave my house in my car and be on a non-stop highway and drive 2,700 miles without out a red light or a stop sign all highway . And still be in same country. The length of Ireland is only 302 miles in total. I used to drop my kid off at college 400 miles away. That is a distance that would be crazy in the minds of an Irish Person
Because America is a country. The United States. No German expects you to call them Bavarian or whatever. They can rightfully expect you to call them American. Can you not see the difference? Europe has 50 some countries. The US IS a country.
At least you called us Americans. There’s a big movement to make it so we can’t call ourselves Americans. In South America they consider both north and South America to be one continent and they call themselves Americans. Not sure what we’re supposed to call ourselves- United Statesers?
People are using Europe because there are a lot of similarities with EU countries. Obviously we all realize they are separate countries.
The people from South America and Central America are correct, they are Americans. When I lived in Spain I never referred to myself as an American, I referred to myself as an "estadounidense." "America" is not a country.
Get over yourself. No other country in the world has “America” in its name. No one is confused by people saying “American” to mean from the USA.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states. You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
[b]Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
m
It’s not stupid at all to only reproduce if you’re married with a supportive partner. Ifs the best strategy for having and raising children.
It's generally not a good idea for women to depend on men financially. Anything can happen.
FWIW, I've been married for 20 years, and I was a sahm for 2 years, but I *always* knew that I was going to go back to work, and I saved a lot to be able to be a sahm for that time.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states. You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but [b]the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
The average American in general wants to drop out of the workforce if they can afford it.
Also, I know some wealthy women that can hire multiple Nannie’s and they far prefer to keep working vs just staying home all day, especially when the kids are say 0-3.
That is what the everyone wants…not necessarily to work but to have FT help that handles all the shit work of parenting and is available 25/7.
BTW, the Median HHI in the US is $75k…and you have to deduct taxes, plus health insurance premiums, and pay for your healthcare deductible and pay for childcare and save for your college and your own retirement.
The median European household income is 56,000 Euros = $64,400. So even though taxes are higher, you don’t have to save nearly as much because healthcare is free, college is free or nearly free, etc.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states. You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
The average American in general wants to drop out of the workforce if they can afford it.
Also, I know some wealthy women that can hire multiple Nannie’s and they far prefer to keep working vs just staying home all day, especially when the kids are say 0-3.
That is what the everyone wants…not necessarily to work but to have FT help that handles all the shit work of parenting and is available 25/7.
[b]BTW, the Median HHI in the US is $75k…and you have to deduct taxes, plus health insurance premiums, and pay for your healthcare deductible and pay for childcare and save for your college and your own retirement.
The median European household income is 56,000 Euros = $64,400. So even though taxes are higher, you don’t have to save nearly as much because healthcare is free, college is free or nearly free, etc.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
I worked internationally for 15 years. It’s not the European colleagues problem it’s yours (company). You can’t impose American ideals on a foreign workforce. You have to adapt to their cultural norms.
Europe is not “one size fits all.” There are a different set of norms, labor laws, and expectations in France than in Germany or Poland.
Think it about it flipped - how would you feel if your company decided that everyone had to follow Japanese work culture to meet the expectations of the leadership in Tokyo. It would be a shock to the system.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
And then reality hits, and she realizes that she has to go back to work because her husband doesn't make enough in order for them to save for retirement and college.
The vast majority of American men aren't making enough for women to be a sahm.
Anonymous wrote:I worked internationally for 15 years. It’s not the European colleagues problem it’s yours (company). You can’t impose American ideals on a foreign workforce. You have to adapt to their cultural norms.
Europe is not “one size fits all.” There are a different set of norms, labor laws, and expectations in France than in Germany or Poland.
Think it about it flipped - how would you feel if your company decided that everyone had to follow Japanese work culture to meet the expectations of the leadership in Tokyo. It would be a shock to the system.
The absolute worst is working for any Asian company. So much needless face time that sucks up the hours and nothing gets done. Horribly inefficient and unproductive.
Pay also isn’t great…but at least the European countries value your free time.
Anonymous wrote:Eh, I think birth rates are a better proxy for the health of a society as it measures optimism in industrialized societies with choices. The US wins — although not great. Happiness metrics are biased. You can argue life expectancy — but lower life expectancy in the US has little to do with work life balance. In fact, working longer can keep you mentally sharp and alive.
This isn’t true anymore. France and some Scandinavian countries are now higher and US is generally the same as most other 1st world European countries (though Bulgaria is the highest).
The Europe rates are actually heading up while the US continues to decline. It’s much cheaper to be a parent in Europe with generous maternity/paternity, free healthcare, free pre school, etc.
Honestly, best thing you could do is get a transfer to a European country when you are having kids and stay through like 6 and then move back to the states.[b] You qualify for all those benefits as long as you have all the proper work visas.
No way. I’d make 50% less on average in a European country. Instead of five months of leave for each kid, I’d earn a year. You still are going back to work at the one year mark. Financially it doesn’t make sense.
If you don’t want to work the best option is to be in the US with a husband who can support the family on one salary.
The truth is that most American women don’t want long maternity leaves or subsidized daycare…they want to stay home and a husband who earns sufficient wages to support a family.
wtf are you talking about you would make 50% less…I said a transfer (which could mean the European office of an American company BTW). You aren’t getting a 50% pay cut for a transfer.
Also, very few US companies provide particularly good maternity benefits.
Finally, what stupid f**king advice to just find someone else to support you. If now we are in fantasy land…marry a Rockefeller or a Walton et al.
+1 lol
Most women aren't marrying rich men. Most working moms are better off in western Europe with their generous maternity leave than the US.
Except salaries are so much higher here that you could marry any man with a decent earning job and stay home if you really wanted to do so. Instead of forcing all women to return to work at six months, one year through government welfare programs.
This is going to go over your head, but the average American woman doesn’t want paid leave. She wants to drop out of the workforce while she has young children.
And then reality hits, and she realizes that she has to go back to work because her husband doesn't make enough in order for them to save for retirement and college.
The vast majority of American men aren't making enough for women to be a sahm.
In nice areas with a lot of SAHMs, there is less of a need to save for college. Why? State schools!
The extreme saving for college is largely a liberal urban left wing practice. If you live in Florida, you send your kid to the university of Florida for 10k a year tuition. This isn’t something you save for years for. There are plenty of states where state schools are relatively inexpensive.
If a man is able to support his family on a single salary and maxes his 401k, he should be able to retire.
Anonymous wrote:I worked internationally for 15 years. It’s not the European colleagues problem it’s yours (company). You can’t impose American ideals on a foreign workforce. You have to adapt to their cultural norms.
Europe is not “one size fits all.” There are a different set of norms, labor laws, and expectations in France than in Germany or Poland.
Think it about it flipped - how would you feel if your company decided that everyone had to follow Japanese work culture to meet the expectations of the leadership in Tokyo. It would be a shock to the system.
The absolute worst is working for any Asian company. So much needless face time that sucks up the hours and nothing gets done. Horribly inefficient and unproductive.
Pay also isn’t great…but at least the European countries value your free time.
Yes, Asian workers work hard but relatively inefficient.
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