Dec 18th: FY 2026 Recommended Operating Budget

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

This is not true. You can't fund 50% of final salaries for life with 7.5% contributions. My guess is you moved the decimal point over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

Paras make minimum wage and don’t often get benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

I think you have your pension share reversed. Yes, teachers contribute 7.5%, but the state contributes ~16%, and MCPS another ~8%. So teacher submissions make up less than 25% of the pension cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

This is not true. You can't fund 50% of final salaries for life with 7.5% contributions. My guess is you moved the decimal point over.

No, she flipped the teacher share versus the state/local share. The state/local share covers >75%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

This is not true. You can't fund 50% of final salaries for life with 7.5% contributions. My guess is you moved the decimal point over.

No, she flipped the teacher share versus the state/local share. The state/local share covers >75%.

Thanks! That definitely did not look right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Compare the MCEA salary with the salaries for the Fed. Many Fed positions pay more than MCPS and many of the Fed positions that pay more don’t require a degree. I know someone who is an Admin assistant at FDA. Been there for 20+ years. Makes 140k and never spent a day in college.

Degree requirements are mostly relevant for entry-level positions. After 20+ years there's often going to be overriding factors and skills.

What you described as an admin assistant is likely an administrative officer, which have a great deal of responsibility and require special skills and training that you aren't going to get in college. Calling them office managers would be more accurate, but even that sells them short.

So yes, compare MCEA scales to the GS scales. While you're certainly going to be able to find some state/local/federal workers that make more money than teachers, those are the exceptions rather than the rule. Once you set aside STEM, law, and management positions, you're not going to find many feds making more than teachers at similar experience levels, after adjusting for the 10-month nature of the teaching positions.

+1

The media earnings for people with graduate or professional degrees in Montgomery County is $117k https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2023.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031

This includes lawyers, doctors, NPs, private practice therapists, feds with grad degrees etc. Most do not have pensions and most have much less generous health insurance. Most must undergo subjective performance reviews, and raises and promotions are based on the subjective, sometimes unfair, choices of their higher ups. Compensation is based on market demand. These are their 12 month earnings, not 10 month earnings.

The notion that everyone else with a masters is making $200k+ is flat out false. If you know someone without a college degree making $140k, that is great for them! They are not the norm and have likely beat out other people for promotions.

+1. This also goes along with the argument that staff can’t live in the same community where they work. Umm this is true for many workers. That’s why folks have 1-2hr commutes to work.

When I first started working I lived 30-40mins from my office with no traffic. As five minute difference in the mornings could change my commute from 50mins to 1.5 hours.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

Paras make minimum wage and don’t often get benefits.

Then clearly this isn’t a job that can be worked by people who don’t have a higher earning spouse or a couple roommates.

There is the way we want things to be and then there is reality. If you want things to be different then you do the advocacy work with the people who can make the changes (county council, state politicians, federal politicians, MCEA, etc) and in the meantime you make plans for reality.

Like many private sector workers who have moved jobs and occasionally states for better salaries and who put away 15-20% of their income for retirement because they don’t have a pension.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

Salaries are not too low for their degree. When they cannot recruit anyone to work at this salary, then it is too low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

Paras make minimum wage and don’t often get benefits.

Then clearly this isn’t a job that can be worked by people who don’t have a higher earning spouse or a couple roommates.

There is the way we want things to be and then there is reality. If you want things to be different then you do the advocacy work with the people who can make the changes (county council, state politicians, federal politicians, MCEA, etc) and in the meantime you make plans for reality.

Like many private sector workers who have moved jobs and occasionally states for better salaries and who put away 15-20% of their income for retirement because they don’t have a pension.

While I certainly don’t think the pay is acceptable, I do know a paraeducator who is single. They pay is still slightly better than child care centers, and the benefits are much better if you can get one of those positions.

Unfortunately, the para positions assigned to kids with special needs and behavioral problems generally don’t get benefits. As a result, there’s high turnover and staff quality varies wildly. The first priority should be extending benefits to all para positions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

Paras make minimum wage and don’t often get benefits.

Then clearly this isn’t a job that can be worked by people who don’t have a higher earning spouse or a couple roommates.

There is the way we want things to be and then there is reality. If you want things to be different then you do the advocacy work with the people who can make the changes (county council, state politicians, federal politicians, MCEA, etc) and in the meantime you make plans for reality.

Like many private sector workers who have moved jobs and occasionally states for better salaries and who put away 15-20% of their income for retirement because they don’t have a pension.

While I certainly don’t think the pay is acceptable, I do know a paraeducator who is single. They pay is still slightly better than child care centers, and the benefits are much better if you can get one of those positions.

Unfortunately, the para positions assigned to kids with special needs and behavioral problems generally don’t get benefits. As a result, there’s high turnover and staff quality varies wildly. The first priority should be extending benefits to all para positions.

Since this thread is about the presented budget, the first step should be CO/Superintendent explaining what the 688 requested Special Ed positions are to be, along with explanation of the cost analysis done to determine if a position should be salary only/salary +benefits and the necessary salary benchmarking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Expensive benefits? You are living in the past! Teachers now have crappy Kaiser or crappy Cigna, and pay more for either than ever before. And, pensions are significantly less- have to do the old 401ks just like everybody else. Sure, once you hit 15/20 years and pay for your own Masters it isn't too bad, but have you seen the numbers of how many new teachers don't even make it to give years? Teaching is in crisis

If the pension is so crappy let's get rid of it. It is eating up the budget, and no, not just the teachers in the old system. The county added a supplement ten years ago, it costs a ton of money so please, gtfooh

It does seem like pensions need to be phased out as they have been across private industry. It would make more fiscal sense to have the same 401 K system they do elsewhere. I am not sure of the cost differential but it is worth doing that math to see how much more teachers could be paid in salary if the pension system was phased out. I think teachers have the same health insurance type plans as everywhere else — better than some worse than others. What teachers do not have is fair hours/salary for their degrees. They have to pay for a four years degree at minimum so their salary/hours should reflect their degree requirements. Right now they are low salary given their degree requirement plus they are expected to do their class prep work and grading after school hours.

Salaries are not too low for their degree. When they cannot recruit anyone to work at this salary, then it is too low.

DP

It's not the salary. It's the working conditions, and particularly the working conditions for special ed teachers. Many people stay for the pay and benefits, not in spite of them.

[Anonymous]

There are a lot of misinformed parents posting here today.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of misinformed parents posting here today.

You can tell yourself that all you want. The misinformed people seem to be the ones who think the MCPS pension and benefits are so bad and that everyone else is raking in massive salaries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of misinformed parents posting here today.

Other than the teacher who apparently doesn't know how her pension works, what has been incorrect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many teachers and paras are locked in by pension and health care. There is a huge penalty if you retire early. Heck you aren’t even eligible for anything in the pension system unless you have been in Maryland for 10 years working full time.

Every staff member I know plans to leave at full retirement age. For many it is around 60 or so. Younger teachers have to work 5 years longer than that and get a smaller pension.

I know one teacher staying longer. They say they need the money to take care of adult children. But they are basically working at half the pay rate now since they are pushing off collecting the pension.

FYI, teachers put in 7.5% of our salaries into the pension. It’s not some sort of free benefit or something. Teacher submissions account for about 75% of teacher pensions paid out. The counties and state cover the rest. It’s only about 50% of the final salary. It will be less for younger teachers eventually.

Paras make minimum wage and don’t often get benefits.

Then clearly this isn’t a job that can be worked by people who don’t have a higher earning spouse or a couple roommates.

There is the way we want things to be and then there is reality. If you want things to be different then you do the advocacy work with the people who can make the changes (county council, state politicians, federal politicians, MCEA, etc) and in the meantime you make plans for reality.

Like many private sector workers who have moved jobs and occasionally states for better salaries and who put away 15-20% of their income for retirement because they don’t have a pension.

While I certainly don’t think the pay is acceptable, I do know a paraeducator who is single. They pay is still slightly better than child care centers, and the benefits are much better if you can get one of those positions.

Unfortunately, the para positions assigned to kids with special needs and behavioral problems generally don’t get benefits. As a result, there’s high turnover and staff quality varies wildly. The first priority should be extending benefits to all para positions.

Since this thread is about the presented budget, the first step should be CO/Superintendent explaining what the 688 requested Special Ed positions are to be, along with explanation of the cost analysis done to determine if a position should be salary only/salary +benefits and the necessary salary benchmarking.

I disagree, although mostly because the tone of your post suggests a inappropriate level of micromanagement. Though it's certainly reasonable to expect a breakdown of positions and a description of why they're needed. But you seemed to be expecting much more time, effort, and formality, by both MCPS and the Board. e.g., you seeemed to be suggesting a compensation study for these positions separate from the policies and practices for existing special education positions.

More generally, the Board micromanaging foundation positions like these is not going to be productive. They'd be at the mercy of central admin staff for the accuracy of the justification, so there's no way to avoid deferring to admin's judgement on the details.

But there are broader issues that should be raised. 688 positions, depending on how they're being counted and what they might he replacing, is a lot. If they're needed, and I highly doubt anyone with insight into the current state of MCPS special education programs would question whether they are, the major issue should be what structural, institutional, or procedural failure led to this getting so bad?

And while I think it would be a waste of time to a special compensation study solely for these new positions, there does seem to be a need to do that for paraeducators more generally, including MCPS's practices for staffing and determining which positions receive benefits (and how well that plays out in practice).