TJ Falls to 14th in the Nation Per US News

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Well, they are admitting low-income Asian students, who had essentially zero access to TJ for decades but do now under the new admissions process. How do you feel about that change?

That is a lie. Total Asian representation went down from 73% to 54% in one year. Asian students were deliberately exluded from expanded seat quota, and algebra1 selections increased 7 times knowing well Asians had higher math of Geometry or higher.

The total number of low-income Asian students went from one in the Class of 2024 to 51 in the Class of 2025. Even you can understand that level of math.

I'll grant you that the number of wealthy Asian students probably dropped precipitously year-over-year. Given the landscape of the TJ prep industry under the old process, I'm not too concerned for their welfare.

It's the other way. Low income Asian count went from 37 to 3 . The entire process was or is race blind. How the heck did they know who was Asian in low-income?

At the time of selection they don't but they do look at demographics after the fact that how we know more low-income Asians benefited than other groups.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Admissions probably didn’t help. Worth noting though that there’s been a lot of teacher turnover which I think is a bigger deal than the admissions process since it affects the quality of the education itself.

Teachers are being forced to teach rigorous TJ curriculum to a class that lacks prerequisite middle school math and science knowledge. If they voice their concerns with the lack of merit based admission criteria, they are branded as anti-equity. Frustrated with not being able to fulfill their duties, many opt to resign.

The last school board was - if nothing else - honest about their priorities:

- academics were NOT their number one priority.

They repeatedly stated “equity is the number one priority,” and they were the board who radically altered TJ’s admissions policies.

Equity is practice means dumbing-down public education in the United States.

How much more evidence do people need before we put an end to this destructive and ultimately racist cult of equity?

They also fixed the cheating problem (inside the school as well as during admissions) and the cutthroat competitive atmosphere.

Academics are important - so are other parts of a school culture. The school board did good wtih the change.

They also solved for body odor, smelly food and funny sounding names that did joy roll off the lips easy. Go on say it - it is an anonymous board.

DP... precisely which students are you referring to with that exceedingly racist stereotype? Are you suggesting that there is a cohort of students at TJ who share traits of cheating, cutthroat behavior, body odor, smelly food, and funny sounding names?

It's odd of you to choose to introduce that dynamic to this conversation.

What kind of a racist saddist are you to reply to your own racist comment?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Well, they are admitting low-income Asian students, who had essentially zero access to TJ for decades but do now under the new admissions process. How do you feel about that change?

That is a lie. Total Asian representation went down from 73% to 54% in one year. Asian students were deliberately exluded from expanded seat quota, and algebra1 selections increased 7 times knowing well Asians had higher math of Geometry or higher.

The total number of low-income Asian students went from one in the Class of 2024 to 51 in the Class of 2025. Even you can understand that level of math.

I'll grant you that the number of wealthy Asian students probably dropped precipitously year-over-year. Given the landscape of the TJ prep industry under the old process, I'm not too concerned for their welfare.

It's the other way. Low income Asian count went from 37 to 3 . The entire process was or is race blind. How the heck did they know who was Asian in low-income?

Your numbers are false. FCPS has demographic information of all of the students who apply to the school but those demographic identifiers are not disclosed to the people evaluating the applications.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Well, they are admitting low-income Asian students, who had essentially zero access to TJ for decades but do now under the new admissions process. How do you feel about that change?

That is a lie. Total Asian representation went down from 73% to 54% in one year. Asian students were deliberately exluded from expanded seat quota, and algebra1 selections increased 7 times knowing well Asians had higher math of Geometry or higher.

The total number of low-income Asian students went from one in the Class of 2024 to 51 in the Class of 2025. Even you can understand that level of math.

I'll grant you that the number of wealthy Asian students probably dropped precipitously year-over-year. Given the landscape of the TJ prep industry under the old process, I'm not too concerned for their welfare.

It's the other way. Low income Asian count went from 37 to 3 . The entire process was or is race blind. How the heck did they know who was Asian in low-income?

sad and unjust attack

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Well, they are admitting low-income Asian students, who had essentially zero access to TJ for decades but do now under the new admissions process. How do you feel about that change?

That is a lie. Total Asian representation went down from 73% to 54% in one year. Asian students were deliberately exluded from expanded seat quota, and algebra1 selections increased 7 times knowing well Asians had higher math of Geometry or higher.

The total number of low-income Asian students went from one in the Class of 2024 to 51 in the Class of 2025. Even you can understand that level of math.

I'll grant you that the number of wealthy Asian students probably dropped precipitously year-over-year. Given the landscape of the TJ prep industry under the old process, I'm not too concerned for their welfare.

It's the other way. Low income Asian count went from 37 to 3 . The entire process was or is race blind. How the heck did they know who was Asian in low-income?

sad and unjust attack

The data they shared showed the numbers went way up once they fixed the selection process.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The principal in one of the recent emails expressed concerns with significant number of admitted "9th grade students scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory", and needing to put them on ALEKS remedial math starting in the third month itself. If admissions was merit based, remedial math should not be needed at the school start.

With a lower caliber student body being admitted using equity instead of merit as the criteria, TJ's ranking continues to decline from 1st in the nation to now 14th nationally.

https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/VAEDUFCPS/bulletins/38d509c

Can you find me where it says there's a "significant number"? All I see is that the School Improvement Plan progress report shows:

By the end of the 2023-2024 school year, 100% of 9th grade students scoring below proficient on the initial Math Inventory will demonstrate proficiency on the end of year Math Inventory assessment.

Progress Report: We are on track to achieve our measurable outcome. Teachers are providing all 9th graders with algebra mastery assignments through ALEKS, a digital resource that provides personalized learning. With the implementation of practice opportunities, freshmen will continue to build on and reinforce their algebra skills.

If they had 2 kids who scored below proficient, wouldn't that be an easy win for the principal to put in the school improvement plan? I don't see anywhere that said there were tons of 9th graders who needed help.

Yeah, there’s no mention of it being a significant number of students, though there’s an argument to be made that no student at TJ should be remedial in Algebra 1 to begin with.

Lots of people make that argument - but I understood TJ to be a STE or M high school, not a STE and M high school. It's for one or more of Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math, not all of them.

You can't excel at technology (well, outside of IT) or especially engineering without math. And many sciences use advanced math as a gatekeeper. To use one famous example, Temple Grandin is not a vet because she couldn't pass the math the gatekeepers set up. She still writes/speaks about that experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Equity politics uses low-income as facade to perform racial balancing. If admissions change truly aimed to increase low-income the Asian representation would have increased, but it decreased. Even within low-income, Asian students had much higher math and science SOL scores than other ethnic groups. No matter how you slice and dice, every piece of factual data suggests Asian count should have gone up, if not for the racial balancing effort that squeezed them from 73% to 54% in one year.

Agree.

Everyone sees right through to the racial motive of the prior FCPS school board who drastically altered the admissions policy. Speaking of which:

- if TJ is a Virginia Governor’s school open to Loudoun, Falls Church and Arlington residents, then why was the FCPS school board alone permitted to re-write the admissions standards??

Shouldn’t that responsibility have gone to the DOE? And if so,

- are the changes ultra vires?

[Anonymous]

I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

lol. C’mon man, stop the gaslighting.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

lol. C’mon man, stop the gaslighting.

What do you mean?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

I do not believe you.

TJ’s drop in ratings is the result of the prior school board’s revision of the admissions requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

I do not believe you.

TJ’s drop in ratings is the result of the prior school board’s revision of the admissions requirements.

"I reject reality and substitute my own.". That's supposed to be a joke, not words to live by.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am sure someone said it already but this drop in ranking has nothing to do with new admission process and is nothing to worry about as the ranking of top schools is said to be very volatile: https://www.baconsrebellion.com/wp/a-rejoinder-on-the-tj-fall/amp/

- you left out the author of the opinion-piece you linked:

- Dick Hall-Sizemore. Isn’t he related to Rachna Sizemore, the Berkeley grad who helped write the revisions to TJ admissions?

http://www.baconsrebellion.com appears to be a leftist-only opinion site pretending to be news.

[Anonymous]

Are the facts from the article false? That the metrics are all based on the data from 2021-22 (students admitted before the changes in admission criteria)? And that tj rank was #10 just few years ago, in 2018?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a long time the number one school in the nation, US News now has TJ at #14. Not sure how much is a change in methodology, how much is the admissions policy (surprised to see WTOP call that one out below, because they usually parrot the FCPS party line on everything), and how much is other schools getting better.

Following controversial changes to its admissions policy in 2021 to boost diversity, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology in Virginia remains the top ranked school in the D.C. region and 14th in the nation, slipping from the top 10. It’s also the 5th ranked STEM school in the nation.

https://wtop.com/education/2024/04/regions-best-high-schools/

Diversity in the school (Blacks, Hispanics, Low income) had 10% weightage too and class of 2022 lacked that which could have costed the ranking

Can you explain how this works with a race-blind process that is required by law in the US?

The US New rating forumula (which is what PP was talking about) is not governed by US law.

Yes, the lack of diversity at TJ is costing them their ranking.

So, why TJ’s ranking is getting worse not better?

the county has a large share of black and Hispanic students that are not being fairly represented at TJ

So, why adding more Black and Hispanic students worsens the ranking? It should make the ranking better if your logic is right.

For ranking TJ at #14, they used seniors data from year 2021-22 when there was less diversity than it is now. Going forward rankings should be better since the new policy admitted more blacks and Hispanics than before.

Methodology data is needed here.

It would not surprise me if US News & World Report has recently altered their scoring criteria to give more weight to DEI. A different rating organization- Great Schools - did exactly that, and they have dinged McLean HS not for any academic deficiencies, but Great School’s perception of insufficient diversity at McLean.

Has USNWR re-weighted diversity to TJ’s disadvantage?

That's not true. Langley has half the diversity of McLean yet they were given an "8" for equity. McLean got dinged not because they lack diversity, but because their diverse/low-income kids are failing. However they are succeeding at Langley.

These rankings mostly hurt diverse schools since you get penalized if you have low-income kids.

Is that so! for some reason Stuyvesant with 42% low income, four times that of TJ, doesnt seem to be complaining about the same rankings process. Unlike TJ, perhaps they are not admitting underqualified or playing the blame game?

Equity politics uses low-income as facade to perform racial balancing. If admissions change truly aimed to increase low-income the Asian representation would have increased, but it decreased. Even within low-income, Asian students had much higher math and science SOL scores than other ethnic groups. No matter how you slice and dice, every piece of factual data suggests Asian count should have gone up, if not for the racial balancing effort that squeezed them from 73% to 54% in one year.

Agree.

Everyone sees right through to the racial motive of the prior FCPS school board who drastically altered the admissions policy. Speaking of which:

- if TJ is a Virginia Governor’s school open to Loudoun, Falls Church and Arlington residents, then why was the FCPS school board alone permitted to re-write the admissions standards??

Shouldn’t that responsibility have gone to the DOE? And if so,

- are the changes ultra vires?

They leveraged the pandemic crisis to pause entrance tests and used the George Floyd protests to make this change permanent. This opened the floodgates to admit students with lower academic qualifications, leading to a decline in the overall competence of the student body.