FCPS Boundary Review Updates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at the proposed new maps and wondering if the slide for Fairfax and Woodson changes is backwards?

They're showing Fairfax shrunk and Woodson's attendance area expanded (just like the previous slide for KJMS and Frost) but it says Fairfax is gaining students and Woodson losing them. It looks like it's going to make Woodson's overcapacity worse?

Huh? It says that Woodson is losing 87 students and bringing capacity from 104% to 100%. The net change for the middle schools is so minimal because there’s somehow only 6 students with that switch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at the proposed new maps and wondering if the slide for Fairfax and Woodson changes is backwards?

They're showing Fairfax shrunk and Woodson's attendance area expanded (just like the previous slide for KJMS and Frost) but it says Fairfax is gaining students and Woodson losing them. It looks like it's going to make Woodson's overcapacity worse?

Huh? It says that Woodson is losing 87 students and bringing capacity from 104% to 100%. The net change for the middle schools is so minimal because there’s somehow only 6 students with that switch.

The connector is more populous that will now be going to Fairfax. The area below Braddock now going to Woodson is more single family homes very spread out.

The physical size of the area per student are very different from each other.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Any guesses on the likelihood that changes so far will stick? Trying to determine how worried I should be…

According to the timeline, these are draft scenarios. They are collecting initial BRAC feedback per region and releasing these one by one iterations, attendance islands, split feeders, then capacity.

Looks like next month will open to community feedback for more context. After all that, they will present the final scenario for the school board to approve.

So I am sure some of these will stick. Others will evolve with the other scenario releases and feedback.

The pyramid representatives may know nothing about your own neighborhood. These are from high school pyramids and not the neighborhood elementary schools.

They should have spread a wider net.

The committee size is already unwieldy. Besides, it’s fairly easy to become familiar with a High School and its elementary school boundaries.

When both reps are from the same neighborhood at the other end of the boundaries, your confidence is questionable. Especially, if their own children have not reached high school age.

cont. i was not familiar with many other neighborhoods until my kids were in high school and interacted with people who lived there.

Just because you were ignorant, doesn’t mean others were too. My kids went to nursery school where the kids went all over. I kept up friendships with several families. We belonged to a pool where many of the families were from all the area schools. Plenty of interaction with people whose children went to the area ES. It even reached, gasp, beyond our pyramid.

If you know who your pyramid rep is, why not contact them to make sure they know about what unique neighborhood issue you fear is going to be overlooked.

Can we please stop calling people we disagree with ignorant?

A few days ago, several posts called people ignorant if they pointed out that it was unlikely that FCPS was going to issue a statement pausing boundary review. How well did all those posts “you are ignorant” posts age?

They underestimated what a $50,000 campaign can buy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.

They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.

Moving the Tysons attendance island for Longfellow/McLean to Cooper/Langley wouldn't by itself leave Cooper or Langley so overcrowded that they would need to move kids to Herndon schools. If they propose that later, it will be for other reasons.

The area in question is already a split feeder to Spring Hill ES, and most Spring Hill kids go to Cooper/Langley. If it were moved to Cooper/Langley, there wouldn't be an attendance island any longer, as the area is contiguous to the existing Cooper/Langley boundaries. The only issue is that the kids in question do live somewhat closer to McLean than to Langley, although they live closer to Langley than the kids in the Forestville area.

All of the above post assumes current elementary school boundaries remain as constants. Forestville should be left in the Langley pyramid to aid in dealing with any domino boundary changes based on capacity. But it should spin off SPA's [Herndon, Holly Knoll, and Reston feeds]and get back the NW corner from Great Falls Elementary and Springvale Rd south from Colvin Run.

Now Dranesville [major addition], Armstrong [addition], Aldrin, Forest Edge [under cap] are all open and available for boundary business. 2 of the 3 C's now at Colvin Run connect via a development road to a newer and more expensive Forest Edge devolopment. Opens onto Hunter Mill.

Spring Hill island is a conglomerate of areas - not a connected development or neighborhood. Given opercap projections at Spring Hill plus the Churchill Rd modular, there should be changes removing that island [or a portion] from Spring Hill. Couple that with what to do with the Westbriar Island.

This section of the county - Herndon, Langley, and Mclean plus some of South Lakes, should be the easiest to reallign. Why? Borders other jurisdictions on 3 sides. Herndon MS does not have space for another feeder plus AAP. What can come out should be from the south-Hutchison to Carson. All MS have AAP. Timber Lane island to Jackson/Falls Church.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Let’s revisit Franklin/Carson/Rocky Run.

If we move (1) Franklin kids who are already zoned to Chantilly to Rocky Run, (2) Carson kids zoned to SLHS (fox mill and some Floris kids) to Hughes, and (3) Crossfield kids from Carson to Franklin, will this solve the split feeder problem?

Carson is not overcrowded, why would you move all these kids out of Carson without moving new kids in? Also Crossfield is zoned to Oakton, it doesn't make sense to move those kids to Franklin unless you are moving all those kids to Chantilly too, which is ridiculous given how overcrowded Chantilly HS is. The post several weeks ago about moving anyone from Carson that is zoned to Chantilly to Franklin makes the most sense. But don't move kids zoned to Oakton to yet another MS.

Carson is a three way split feeder. Tell me how to fix it.

Is that really a “problem” that needs solving?

Whether you like it or not, they considered it a problem and will develop a proposal (see the March slide).

The easiest way to eliminate middle school split feeders is to make middle school and high school boundaries fully align, such as:

Hughes - SLHS
Franklin - Oakton
Rocky Run - Chantilly
Stone - Westfield
Carson - ?

As you can see, Carson is the odd one out, and we could have really used a mythical western high school.

That’s not happening. Most likely, Carson will be a split feeder, but not a three-way split like it is now.

You do realize there are other middle schools that feed into those high schools?

But, in any case, a better solve would be:

Carson: Oakton
Franklin: Chantilly
But, this would entail creating another AAP center at Franklin --unless AAP centers are eliminated.
Crossfield is already assigned to Carson. Just add Navy and Waples MIll kids who go to Oakton.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at the proposed new maps and wondering if the slide for Fairfax and Woodson changes is backwards?

They're showing Fairfax shrunk and Woodson's attendance area expanded (just like the previous slide for KJMS and Frost) but it says Fairfax is gaining students and Woodson losing them. It looks like it's going to make Woodson's overcapacity worse?

They are not simply expanded or shrunk, just changed. Woodson's is extending further west to include the southern part of Willow Springs ES, whereas Fairfax is picking up areas north of 29 zoned to Woodson. I assume the areas north of 29 have more students than the far western areas and the numbers are accurate.

Of course, it doesn't make sense for either of those areas to attend Woodson; Fairfax or Centreville are closer.

Centreville is literally in the background of these schools now zoned for Woodson. How does that help with anything transportation wise? They should expand Herndon down, take some from Westfield and allow Centreville to take this chunk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm looking at the proposed new maps and wondering if the slide for Fairfax and Woodson changes is backwards?

They're showing Fairfax shrunk and Woodson's attendance area expanded (just like the previous slide for KJMS and Frost) but it says Fairfax is gaining students and Woodson losing them. It looks like it's going to make Woodson's overcapacity worse?

They are not simply expanded or shrunk, just changed. Woodson's is extending further west to include the southern part of Willow Springs ES, whereas Fairfax is picking up areas north of 29 zoned to Woodson. I assume the areas north of 29 have more students than the far western areas and the numbers are accurate.

Of course, it doesn't make sense for either of those areas to attend Woodson; Fairfax or Centreville are closer.

Centreville is literally in the background of these schools now zoned for Woodson. How does that help with anything transportation wise? They should expand Herndon down, take some from Westfield and allow Centreville to take this chunk.

School Board in 2008 refused to put Coates/McNair into Herndon. Don't see them doing it this time, though it makes great sense. But, it doesn't fit their view.

[Anonymous]

Once again, if equity is the goal, they must eliminate IB. I see a lot of communities up in arms over that.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Two strong observations:

Why would they send the Navy island in Franklin Farm to Oak Hill? Franklin Farm on that side of the parkway goes to Crossfield. Look at the map. There is something else going on here. These kids currently go to as does Crossfield.

Thru missed a real island--though it is tiny:
Look at the boundary map for Lee's Corner. Compare it with the Crossfield boundary map. There is a street --a cul-de-sac that is split. Some go to Crossfield and some to Lee's Corner. The students that go to Crossfield must drive through the Lee's Corner boundary in order to get to Crossfield. There are a couple of other cul-de-sacs off of the street.
If you want to see it, look at Ashvale Drive. Some of it may be be Franklin Glen instead of Franklin Farm and had the boundary line drawn before the parkway was built. That would be the Lee's Corner portion.

This could be easily missed if you are not familiar with the area.

This is why they should have had people familiar with elementary school boundaries on the committee.

I can try to speak to the bolded info, but with the caveat that I have no inside info.

Navy is an AAP center that kids from Crossfield can choose to attend. If you move Navy kids to Crossfield, you are moving them from an AAP center school to a non-center school. You end up with a weird situation where the kids eligible for AAP in third grade can choose to go (back) to Navy whereas the kids who don't qualify for AAP would not have that choice. Oak Hill is an AAP center, so all the kids in the island would be moved to Oak Hill regardless of AAP or Gen Ed, and there would not be any situation where some of them end up right back at the school they got moved from.

At least some, if not all, of Ashvale Drive is definitely Franklin Glen. Franklin Farm and Franklin Glen were built before Fairfax County Parkway was such a big road. That's why some of FF is east of the parkway and some is west, and same with FG. The developers did not envision such a large highway running through. I know it would never happen, but it seems like all the homes east of the parkway should just become part of the FF HOA and all the homes west of the parkway should be FG.

This is such a stupid AAP-Centric thing to say. 1/5 of those kids are AAP, mama. You can't move all those kids to an AAP center just because one out of every five of them may end up in AAP. So stupid.

There is a teeeeeny tiny portion of Franklin Glen that is east of Fairfax County Parkway. Really, Franklin Farm should just annex those houses like they've done for other neighborhoods, it's so awkward for the families who live there. We specifically did not buy one of those houses because we didn't want our entire neighborhood to be on the other side of a major road.

Kindly F off with your “AAP mama” BS. My children are not in AAP. It’s simply a fact that moving kids from Navy to Crossfield creates a situation where some would end up right back at Navy. Oak Hill eliminates that issue. I think the Navy to Crossfield thing would actually be unfair because then some kids would get to choose to go back to their old school whereas others wouldn’t get that choice. Getting rid of AAP centers seems like it would solve some problems all over, but I will be very surprised if they do it.

Try getting rid of the massive chip on your shoulder about your kids not being in AAP and realize we are probably in agreement here that not moving these kids at all would be the preferred action.

I think the real reason they are moving that island to Oak Hill is because Oak Hill has an AAP center. It’s a more equitable transfer - kids will still have AAP at their base.

Not either of last two PP's.

Do you really think that a group who does not want to grandfather kids currently in a high school cares about that?

No, I'm not sure what this is, but this casts a far wider net. The question has been on here for years as to why a small portion of Franklin Farm goes to Navy. I think it goes back to the early history of Crossfield which was likely overcrowded by that time. However, that no longer stands as an excuse.

Look at the map. There is no reason to send these kids to Oak Hill and not Crossfield --unless it is part of the overall plan which will come later. This neighborhood is within Franklin Farm--it is not an isolated island of Franklin Farm. They are part of the Franklin Farm community on that side of 286. It makes no sense. And, as a prior poster says (as a negative), it would allow the AAP kids to stay in the same center. Why is that a bad thing?

Is Oak Hill underenrolled compared to Crossfield?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.

They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.

Moving the Tysons attendance island for Longfellow/McLean to Cooper/Langley wouldn't by itself leave Cooper or Langley so overcrowded that they would need to move kids to Herndon schools. If they propose that later, it will be for other reasons.

The area in question is already a split feeder to Spring Hill ES, and most Spring Hill kids go to Cooper/Langley. If it were moved to Cooper/Langley, there wouldn't be an attendance island any longer, as the area is contiguous to the existing Cooper/Langley boundaries. The only issue is that the kids in question do live somewhat closer to McLean than to Langley, although they live closer to Langley than the kids in the Forestville area.

All of the above post assumes current elementary school boundaries remain as constants. Forestville should be left in the Langley pyramid to aid in dealing with any domino boundary changes based on capacity. But it should spin off SPA's [Herndon, Holly Knoll, and Reston feeds]and get back the NW corner from Great Falls Elementary and Springvale Rd south from Colvin Run.

Now Dranesville [major addition], Armstrong [addition], Aldrin, Forest Edge [under cap] are all open and available for boundary business. 2 of the 3 C's now at Colvin Run connect via a development road to a newer and more expensive Forest Edge devolopment. Opens onto Hunter Mill.

Spring Hill island is a conglomerate of areas - not a connected development or neighborhood. Given opercap projections at Spring Hill plus the Churchill Rd modular, there should be changes removing that island [or a portion] from Spring Hill. Couple that with what to do with the Westbriar Island.

This section of the county - Herndon, Langley, and Mclean plus some of South Lakes, should be the easiest to reallign. Why? Borders other jurisdictions on 3 sides. Herndon MS does not have space for another feeder plus AAP. What can come out should be from the south-Hutchison to Carson. All MS have AAP. Timber Lane island to Jackson/Falls Church.

Oy vey. You want to change lots of boundaries. The folks who would be affected by these changes may feel strongly about that.

I was responding to the suggestion that the 4/11 scenario that moves the existing Longfellow/McLean attendance island to Cooper/Langley is simply a pretext to move Cooper/Langley kids into Herndon schools. I don't agree with that because (1) moving those kids would mitigate existing overcrowding at McLean; and (2) it would not, by itself, appear to overcrowd Cooper/Langley to any extent that would warrant moving anyone out of Cooper/Langley.

They have separate proposals for the Westbriar island and the Timber Lane island that don't implicate Cooper/Langley. They've identified moving the Westbriar island to Wolftrap, a spit feeder to Madison and Marshall, and connecting the Timber Lane island to the rest of McLean by adding a small area now at Marshall. Could they move the Timber Lane island to Jackson/Falls Church? Sure. But if they don't, it still doesn't mean kids have to move out of the Langley pyramid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two strong observations:

Why would they send the Navy island in Franklin Farm to Oak Hill? Franklin Farm on that side of the parkway goes to Crossfield. Look at the map. There is something else going on here. These kids currently go to as does Crossfield.

Thru missed a real island--though it is tiny:
Look at the boundary map for Lee's Corner. Compare it with the Crossfield boundary map. There is a street --a cul-de-sac that is split. Some go to Crossfield and some to Lee's Corner. The students that go to Crossfield must drive through the Lee's Corner boundary in order to get to Crossfield. There are a couple of other cul-de-sacs off of the street.
If you want to see it, look at Ashvale Drive. Some of it may be be Franklin Glen instead of Franklin Farm and had the boundary line drawn before the parkway was built. That would be the Lee's Corner portion.

This could be easily missed if you are not familiar with the area.

This is why they should have had people familiar with elementary school boundaries on the committee.

I can try to speak to the bolded info, but with the caveat that I have no inside info.

Navy is an AAP center that kids from Crossfield can choose to attend. If you move Navy kids to Crossfield, you are moving them from an AAP center school to a non-center school. You end up with a weird situation where the kids eligible for AAP in third grade can choose to go (back) to Navy whereas the kids who don't qualify for AAP would not have that choice. Oak Hill is an AAP center, so all the kids in the island would be moved to Oak Hill regardless of AAP or Gen Ed, and there would not be any situation where some of them end up right back at the school they got moved from.

At least some, if not all, of Ashvale Drive is definitely Franklin Glen. Franklin Farm and Franklin Glen were built before Fairfax County Parkway was such a big road. That's why some of FF is east of the parkway and some is west, and same with FG. The developers did not envision such a large highway running through. I know it would never happen, but it seems like all the homes east of the parkway should just become part of the FF HOA and all the homes west of the parkway should be FG.

This is such a stupid AAP-Centric thing to say. 1/5 of those kids are AAP, mama. You can't move all those kids to an AAP center just because one out of every five of them may end up in AAP. So stupid.

There is a teeeeeny tiny portion of Franklin Glen that is east of Fairfax County Parkway. Really, Franklin Farm should just annex those houses like they've done for other neighborhoods, it's so awkward for the families who live there. We specifically did not buy one of those houses because we didn't want our entire neighborhood to be on the other side of a major road.

Kindly F off with your “AAP mama” BS. My children are not in AAP. It’s simply a fact that moving kids from Navy to Crossfield creates a situation where some would end up right back at Navy. Oak Hill eliminates that issue. I think the Navy to Crossfield thing would actually be unfair because then some kids would get to choose to go back to their old school whereas others wouldn’t get that choice. Getting rid of AAP centers seems like it would solve some problems all over, but I will be very surprised if they do it.

Try getting rid of the massive chip on your shoulder about your kids not being in AAP and realize we are probably in agreement here that not moving these kids at all would be the preferred action.

I think the real reason they are moving that island to Oak Hill is because Oak Hill has an AAP center. It’s a more equitable transfer - kids will still have AAP at their base.

Not either of last two PP's.

Do you really think that a group who does not want to grandfather kids currently in a high school cares about that?

No, I'm not sure what this is, but this casts a far wider net. The question has been on here for years as to why a small portion of Franklin Farm goes to Navy. I think it goes back to the early history of Crossfield which was likely overcrowded by that time. However, that no longer stands as an excuse.

Look at the map. There is no reason to send these kids to Oak Hill and not Crossfield --unless it is part of the overall plan which will come later. This neighborhood is within Franklin Farm--it is not an isolated island of Franklin Farm. They are part of the Franklin Farm community on that side of 286. It makes no sense. And, as a prior poster says (as a negative), it would allow the AAP kids to stay in the same center. Why is that a bad thing?

Navy parents won’t accept being moved to a new elementary school but they can sell it as well it will still have an AAP center. I definitely think that’s why they picked Oak Hill over Crossfield. But…what high school does Oak Hill feed into?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.

They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.

Moving the Tysons attendance island for Longfellow/McLean to Cooper/Langley wouldn't by itself leave Cooper or Langley so overcrowded that they would need to move kids to Herndon schools. If they propose that later, it will be for other reasons.

The area in question is already a split feeder to Spring Hill ES, and most Spring Hill kids go to Cooper/Langley. If it were moved to Cooper/Langley, there wouldn't be an attendance island any longer, as the area is contiguous to the existing Cooper/Langley boundaries. The only issue is that the kids in question do live somewhat closer to McLean than to Langley, although they live closer to Langley than the kids in the Forestville area.

All of the above post assumes current elementary school boundaries remain as constants. Forestville should be left in the Langley pyramid to aid in dealing with any domino boundary changes based on capacity. But it should spin off SPA's [Herndon, Holly Knoll, and Reston feeds]and get back the NW corner from Great Falls Elementary and Springvale Rd south from Colvin Run.

Now Dranesville [major addition], Armstrong [addition], Aldrin, Forest Edge [under cap] are all open and available for boundary business. 2 of the 3 C's now at Colvin Run connect via a development road to a newer and more expensive Forest Edge devolopment. Opens onto Hunter Mill.

Spring Hill island is a conglomerate of areas - not a connected development or neighborhood. Given opercap projections at Spring Hill plus the Churchill Rd modular, there should be changes removing that island [or a portion] from Spring Hill. Couple that with what to do with the Westbriar Island.

This section of the county - Herndon, Langley, and Mclean plus some of South Lakes, should be the easiest to reallign. Why? Borders other jurisdictions on 3 sides. Herndon MS does not have space for another feeder plus AAP. What can come out should be from the south-Hutchison to Carson. All MS have AAP. Timber Lane island to Jackson/Falls Church.

Don’t pretend that students are pawns.

No one should be moved unless they want to be moved or there is a Coates situation.

This has always been an equity solution in search of a problem.

[Anonymous]

It is interesting to read on here about other neighborhoods that I did not know about. It just proves that there were reasons for some of the boundaries. Some of those reasons no longer exist, but many do.

They say to "every action there is an equal and opposite reaction." Someone needs to point that out to our School Board.

This is an impossible task to do a boundary wide study and make the correct decisions. The dominoes are already falling when you read this thread, and we haven't even touched the most important dominoes: the high schools.

And, as to the size of the committee, I admit it is cumbersome, but, face it, most people applied to the committee in order to look out for their own neighborhood boundaries. When those reps happen to be from the same neighborhoods, do you really think they care about yours? Sure, they want to do the right thing, but we are talking about their families concerns. They are unfamiliar with yours.

I think the committee list should include all the schools they are affected by--not just the high school.

Is there a community rep from each middle school? Doubtful--they should have made sure that the community reps did not come from the same middle school area.

And, why do they have reps from organizations: LGBQT, NAACP, SEPTA, Neurodivergent? That makes no sense. And, FWIW, one of the NAACP reps has lobbied for years to move one elementary school. That is well reported and open view.

You think they are not more concerned about their own neighborhoods than their organizations?

This should be done under the old system. When there is a need, do a study. Sure, there may also be a domino effect there, but this plan is nuts.

[Anonymous]

Navy parents won’t accept being moved to a new elementary school but they can sell it as well it will still have an AAP center. I definitely think that’s why they picked Oak Hill over Crossfield. But…what high school does Oak Hill feed into?

did they apply that rule to anyone else? They can keep their Navy AAP center. Makes it much easier if they send them to Crossfield.

[Anonymous]

Ever been a Band parent? Drama parent? Football parent? etc.

I don't think the SB has considered what breaking up communities is going to do to the system.

Moving families --and, in some cases, splitting families on a major scale is going to have poor results.

Moving staff? Just wait until the teachers start competing for slots. Move to a different school? Might not get the classes you have been accustomed to teaching.

The sad part is that I don't think the SB has considered this in their equity goal.