FCPS Boundary Review Updates

Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s revisit Franklin/Carson/Rocky Run.

If we move (1) Franklin kids who are already zoned to Chantilly to Rocky Run, (2) Carson kids zoned to SLHS (fox mill and some Floris kids) to Hughes, and (3) Crossfield kids from Carson to Franklin, will this solve the split feeder problem?
Carson is not overcrowded, why would you move all these kids out of Carson without moving new kids in? Also Crossfield is zoned to Oakton, it doesn't make sense to move those kids to Franklin unless you are moving all those kids to Chantilly too, which is ridiculous given how overcrowded Chantilly HS is. The post several weeks ago about moving anyone from Carson that is zoned to Chantilly to Franklin makes the most sense. But don't move kids zoned to Oakton to yet another MS.


Carson is a three way split feeder. Tell me how to fix it.


Is that really a “problem” that needs solving?


Whether you like it or not, they considered it a problem and will develop a proposal (see the March slide).

The easiest way to eliminate middle school split feeders is to make middle school and high school boundaries fully align, such as:

Hughes - SLHS
Franklin - Oakton
Rocky Run - Chantilly
Stone - Westfield
Carson - ?

As you can see, Carson is the odd one out, and we could have really used a mythical western high school.

That’s not happening. Most likely, Carson will be a split feeder, but not a three-way split like it is now.






I see what you are saying, but what do you make of this from the slides: “Focus on feeder patterns where less than 25% of students from a lower school (elementary or middle) are split off to a different upper-level school (middle or high).”

The way I read that, they would leave both Chantilly/Oakton in Franklin (both more than 25% of the Franklin population), and remove the Westfields feeder (less than 25% of the Franklin population). Is that how others understand the 25% cutoff?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s revisit Franklin/Carson/Rocky Run.

If we move (1) Franklin kids who are already zoned to Chantilly to Rocky Run, (2) Carson kids zoned to SLHS (fox mill and some Floris kids) to Hughes, and (3) Crossfield kids from Carson to Franklin, will this solve the split feeder problem?


This makes no sense. The Franklin kids that go to Chantilly are from Oak Hill and Lees Corner. Some of the Oak Hill kids are walkers to Franklin. I think some of the Lees Corner kids may be, as well. Franklin is on the dividing line of Oak Hill and Lees Corner.

It would make more sense to send the Navy/Waples Mill kids to Carson.


Why not swap the Oakton zoned kids from Carson to Franklin with the Chantilly zoned kids from Franklin to Carson? That would eliminate two split feeders. While we're at it, let's eliminate AAP centers in middle schools so the Navy mamas don't complain about losing that.


1. Franklin Middle School is in the Chantilly boundary between two Chantilly elementary school boundaries (Oak Hill and Lee's Corner). Some of those students are walkers.
2. Sending the Oakton kids to Carson makes far more sense.
3. The only Chantilly boundary kids currently at Carson are AAP.

I would suggest sending the AAP kids back to their base school along with this. There are well enough Chantilly boundary kids in the AAP center at Carson to justify this.





Ah, I think I was confused then, and it should have been the other way around. Basically, eliminate the AAP Center at Carson, it is totally unnecessary since Franklin has AAP classes. It's not like ES where the school has to pull in non-AAP kids, Franklin has DEDICATED AAP classes. I don't understand why there are Navy kids there.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Two strong observations:

Why would they send the Navy island in Franklin Farm to Oak Hill? Franklin Farm on that side of the parkway goes to Crossfield. Look at the map. There is something else going on here. These kids currently go to as does Crossfield.

Thru missed a real island--though it is tiny:
Look at the boundary map for Lee's Corner. Compare it with the Crossfield boundary map. There is a street --a cul-de-sac that is split. Some go to Crossfield and some to Lee's Corner. The students that go to Crossfield must drive through the Lee's Corner boundary in order to get to Crossfield. There are a couple of other cul-de-sacs off of the street.
If you want to see it, look at Ashvale Drive. Some of it may be be Franklin Glen instead of Franklin Farm and had the boundary line drawn before the parkway was built. That would be the Lee's Corner portion.

This could be easily missed if you are not familiar with the area.

This is why they should have had people familiar with elementary school boundaries on the committee.


I can try to speak to the bolded info, but with the caveat that I have no inside info.

Navy is an AAP center that kids from Crossfield can choose to attend. If you move Navy kids to Crossfield, you are moving them from an AAP center school to a non-center school. You end up with a weird situation where the kids eligible for AAP in third grade can choose to go (back) to Navy whereas the kids who don't qualify for AAP would not have that choice. Oak Hill is an AAP center, so all the kids in the island would be moved to Oak Hill regardless of AAP or Gen Ed, and there would not be any situation where some of them end up right back at the school they got moved from.

At least some, if not all, of Ashvale Drive is definitely Franklin Glen. Franklin Farm and Franklin Glen were built before Fairfax County Parkway was such a big road. That's why some of FF is east of the parkway and some is west, and same with FG. The developers did not envision such a large highway running through. I know it would never happen, but it seems like all the homes east of the parkway should just become part of the FF HOA and all the homes west of the parkway should be FG.


This is such a stupid AAP-Centric thing to say. 1/5 of those kids are AAP, mama. You can't move all those kids to an AAP center just because one out of every five of them may end up in AAP. So stupid.

There is a teeeeeny tiny portion of Franklin Glen that is east of Fairfax County Parkway. Really, Franklin Farm should just annex those houses like they've done for other neighborhoods, it's so awkward for the families who live there. We specifically did not buy one of those houses because we didn't want our entire neighborhood to be on the other side of a major road.
Anonymous
Split elementary is fine if a sizable percentage but we should try and limit split ms/hs where possible.
Anonymous
I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any guesses on the likelihood that changes so far will stick? Trying to determine how worried I should be…


According to the timeline, these are draft scenarios. They are collecting initial BRAC feedback per region and releasing these one by one iterations, attendance islands, split feeders, then capacity.

Looks like next month will open to community feedback for more context. After all that, they will present the final scenario for the school board to approve.

So I am sure some of these will stick. Others will evolve with the other scenario releases and feedback.


The pyramid representatives may know nothing about your own neighborhood. These are from high school pyramids and not the neighborhood elementary schools.

They should have spread a wider net.

The committee size is already unwieldy. Besides, it’s fairly easy to become familiar with a High School and its elementary school boundaries.


When both reps are from the same neighborhood at the other end of the boundaries, your confidence is questionable. Especially, if their own children have not reached high school age.


cont. i was not familiar with many other neighborhoods until my kids were in high school and interacted with people who lived there.


Just because you were ignorant, doesn’t mean others were too. My kids went to nursery school where the kids went all over. I kept up friendships with several families. We belonged to a pool where many of the families were from all the area schools. Plenty of interaction with people whose children went to the area ES. It even reached, gasp, beyond our pyramid.

If you know who your pyramid rep is, why not contact them to make sure they know about what unique neighborhood issue you fear is going to be overlooked.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:Split elementary is fine if a sizable percentage but we should try and limit split ms/hs where possible.


Yes, where possible. Many of these split feeders are there by necessity. Limiting review to the “less than 25%” threshold appears to recognize that some spilt feeders will remain.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any guesses on the likelihood that changes so far will stick? Trying to determine how worried I should be…


According to the timeline, these are draft scenarios. They are collecting initial BRAC feedback per region and releasing these one by one iterations, attendance islands, split feeders, then capacity.

Looks like next month will open to community feedback for more context. After all that, they will present the final scenario for the school board to approve.

So I am sure some of these will stick. Others will evolve with the other scenario releases and feedback.


The pyramid representatives may know nothing about your own neighborhood. These are from high school pyramids and not the neighborhood elementary schools.

They should have spread a wider net.

The committee size is already unwieldy. Besides, it’s fairly easy to become familiar with a High School and its elementary school boundaries.


When both reps are from the same neighborhood at the other end of the boundaries, your confidence is questionable. Especially, if their own children have not reached high school age.


cont. i was not familiar with many other neighborhoods until my kids were in high school and interacted with people who lived there.


Just because you were ignorant, doesn’t mean others were too. My kids went to nursery school where the kids went all over. I kept up friendships with several families. We belonged to a pool where many of the families were from all the area schools. Plenty of interaction with people whose children went to the area ES. It even reached, gasp, beyond our pyramid.

If you know who your pyramid rep is, why not contact them to make sure they know about what unique neighborhood issue you fear is going to be overlooked.


Can we please stop calling people we disagree with ignorant?

A few days ago, several posts called people ignorant if they pointed out that it was unlikely that FCPS was going to issue a statement pausing boundary review. How well did all those posts “you are ignorant” posts age?
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Any guesses on the likelihood that changes so far will stick? Trying to determine how worried I should be…


According to the timeline, these are draft scenarios. They are collecting initial BRAC feedback per region and releasing these one by one iterations, attendance islands, split feeders, then capacity.

Looks like next month will open to community feedback for more context. After all that, they will present the final scenario for the school board to approve.

So I am sure some of these will stick. Others will evolve with the other scenario releases and feedback.


The pyramid representatives may know nothing about your own neighborhood. These are from high school pyramids and not the neighborhood elementary schools.

They should have spread a wider net.

The committee size is already unwieldy. Besides, it’s fairly easy to become familiar with a High School and its elementary school boundaries.


When both reps are from the same neighborhood at the other end of the boundaries, your confidence is questionable. Especially, if their own children have not reached high school age.


cont. i was not familiar with many other neighborhoods until my kids were in high school and interacted with people who lived there.


Just because you were ignorant, doesn’t mean others were too. My kids went to nursery school where the kids went all over. I kept up friendships with several families. We belonged to a pool where many of the families were from all the area schools. Plenty of interaction with people whose children went to the area ES. It even reached, gasp, beyond our pyramid.

If you know who your pyramid rep is, why not contact them to make sure they know about what unique neighborhood issue you fear is going to be overlooked.


Can we please stop calling people we disagree with ignorant?

A few days ago, several posts called people ignorant if they pointed out that it was unlikely that FCPS was going to issue a statement pausing boundary review. How well did all those posts “you are ignorant” posts age?

I agree. Let’s be kind, considerate and understanding of one another. Everyone has a unique perspective to share and we should be thoughtful.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Let’s revisit Franklin/Carson/Rocky Run.

If we move (1) Franklin kids who are already zoned to Chantilly to Rocky Run, (2) Carson kids zoned to SLHS (fox mill and some Floris kids) to Hughes, and (3) Crossfield kids from Carson to Franklin, will this solve the split feeder problem?


This makes no sense. The Franklin kids that go to Chantilly are from Oak Hill and Lees Corner. Some of the Oak Hill kids are walkers to Franklin. I think some of the Lees Corner kids may be, as well. Franklin is on the dividing line of Oak Hill and Lees Corner.

It would make more sense to send the Navy/Waples Mill kids to Carson.


Why not swap the Oakton zoned kids from Carson to Franklin with the Chantilly zoned kids from Franklin to Carson? That would eliminate two split feeders. While we're at it, let's eliminate AAP centers in middle schools so the Navy mamas don't complain about losing that.


1. Franklin Middle School is in the Chantilly boundary between two Chantilly elementary school boundaries (Oak Hill and Lee's Corner). Some of those students are walkers.
2. Sending the Oakton kids to Carson makes far more sense.
3. The only Chantilly boundary kids currently at Carson are AAP.

I would suggest sending the AAP kids back to their base school along with this. There are well enough Chantilly boundary kids in the AAP center at Carson to justify this.





Ah, I think I was confused then, and it should have been the other way around. Basically, eliminate the AAP Center at Carson, it is totally unnecessary since Franklin has AAP classes. It's not like ES where the school has to pull in non-AAP kids, Franklin has DEDICATED AAP classes. I don't understand why there are Navy kids there.


You're correct. Franklin has had dedicated AAP classes for at least 12 years, and their program, at least when two of my kids were in it, was very strong. There is no reason not to move all the Franklin kids back to Franklin.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.


Yes, and moving the kids south of Route 29 to Longfellow but not McLean makes no sense. It would reduce Jackson’s enrollment to 900 and create a split feeder at Longfellow where only about 5% of the kids go to Falls Church.

Conversely if they leave Timber Lane as a split feeder it would be about a 60-40 split to Longfellow/McLean and Jackson/Falls Church, which is fairly even and not the type of split (where one school gets less than 25% of the kids from the sending school) that they have flagged as a concern.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Two strong observations:

Why would they send the Navy island in Franklin Farm to Oak Hill? Franklin Farm on that side of the parkway goes to Crossfield. Look at the map. There is something else going on here. These kids currently go to as does Crossfield.

Thru missed a real island--though it is tiny:
Look at the boundary map for Lee's Corner. Compare it with the Crossfield boundary map. There is a street --a cul-de-sac that is split. Some go to Crossfield and some to Lee's Corner. The students that go to Crossfield must drive through the Lee's Corner boundary in order to get to Crossfield. There are a couple of other cul-de-sacs off of the street.
If you want to see it, look at Ashvale Drive. Some of it may be be Franklin Glen instead of Franklin Farm and had the boundary line drawn before the parkway was built. That would be the Lee's Corner portion.

This could be easily missed if you are not familiar with the area.

This is why they should have had people familiar with elementary school boundaries on the committee.


I can try to speak to the bolded info, but with the caveat that I have no inside info.

Navy is an AAP center that kids from Crossfield can choose to attend. If you move Navy kids to Crossfield, you are moving them from an AAP center school to a non-center school. You end up with a weird situation where the kids eligible for AAP in third grade can choose to go (back) to Navy whereas the kids who don't qualify for AAP would not have that choice. Oak Hill is an AAP center, so all the kids in the island would be moved to Oak Hill regardless of AAP or Gen Ed, and there would not be any situation where some of them end up right back at the school they got moved from.

At least some, if not all, of Ashvale Drive is definitely Franklin Glen. Franklin Farm and Franklin Glen were built before Fairfax County Parkway was such a big road. That's why some of FF is east of the parkway and some is west, and same with FG. The developers did not envision such a large highway running through. I know it would never happen, but it seems like all the homes east of the parkway should just become part of the FF HOA and all the homes west of the parkway should be FG.


This is such a stupid AAP-Centric thing to say. 1/5 of those kids are AAP, mama. You can't move all those kids to an AAP center just because one out of every five of them may end up in AAP. So stupid.

There is a teeeeeny tiny portion of Franklin Glen that is east of Fairfax County Parkway. Really, Franklin Farm should just annex those houses like they've done for other neighborhoods, it's so awkward for the families who live there. We specifically did not buy one of those houses because we didn't want our entire neighborhood to be on the other side of a major road.


Kindly F off with your “AAP mama” BS. My children are not in AAP. It’s simply a fact that moving kids from Navy to Crossfield creates a situation where some would end up right back at Navy. Oak Hill eliminates that issue. I think the Navy to Crossfield thing would actually be unfair because then some kids would get to choose to go back to their old school whereas others wouldn’t get that choice. Getting rid of AAP centers seems like it would solve some problems all over, but I will be very surprised if they do it.

Try getting rid of the massive chip on your shoulder about your kids not being in AAP and realize we are probably in agreement here that not moving these kids at all would be the preferred action.
Anonymous
Just trying to focus the conversation a bit here.

There things FCPS has started, publicly and in writing, that will inform its next proposal. For example “feeder patterns where less than 25% of students from a lower school (elementary or middle) are split off to a different upper-level school (middle or high).”

I do not see “eliminate AAP centers” anywhere in the boundary review materials. Just like I did not see “a pause after Spring Break” anywhere from FCPS.

Is it helpful to focus on what appears to be an agenda/wishful thinking/goal that is entirely separate from anything that FCPS is considering in its proposals?

Give me a link. One link. Show me where FCPS mentions ending AAP centers in connection with a boundary review proposal. If you can’t, all the AAP discussion comes across like the “they are going to pause” discussion.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.


They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.
Anonymous
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think connecting the timber lane island with a bit from falls hill so it’s “connected” on map is fine if it’s needed but don’t think we need to extend to 50. My kid went to timber lane. Longfellow, and now is at McLean. We are equal distant to McLean, Marshall, and Falls church but the kids by 50 are much closer to falls church.



They are doing anything to bump capacity up at Cooper and Langley to cut FHES to Herndon.


Wonder if this is what they are doing to Chantilly with Franklin Farm move to Oak Hill. That move defies common sense,
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