Ranking in everything but academics
![[Post New]](/jforum/templates/default/images/icon_minipost_new.gif){kind=icon}
Anonymous
|
In many countries it is quite common to know who was "1st, 2nd or 3rd" in class based on academics. I find it interesting that while our children receive medals,trophies and ranking for many activities (ie sports, music, art etc), that there are very few, if any, academic honors given by schools - especially at the elementary school level. (There are honor rolls, honor societies and valedictorians etc in MS and HS.)
Why is it so bad to give some positive reinforcement at the academic level as well? Grades are fairly subjective, but so are all the other honors mentioned above. Also, why do teachers try so hard NOT to tell you where your child is in class? I would want to know so that I know where my own expectations should be, and not so that I can go around bragging about it or feeling dejected about it. (Surprisingly some parents seem to always know which groups their child is in...) The few times I have had the guts to ask about differentiation, I have received very defensive answers from teachers. |
Anonymous
Do you have no brains whatsoever? Teachers have it tough enough already. All they need is to also have to fend off an onslaught of questions and appeals from parents as to what their children need to do to grab that top ranking in second grade? |
Anonymous
| The question is why elementary school children need to get rewarded for efforts in other arenas and not in academics. I think the pp may want to use a few of her/his brain cells to read and understand the question/comment at hand. |
Anonymous
| At our local kids sports teams everyone gets a medal and they don't keep score. Rankings come soon enough. I'm always more concerned about teachers giving appropriate work to my child at their level than what rank my child was as if my child could actually be a certain academic rank all year. There are many studies out there that say rankings are not the best way to go in the long run. Learning isn't always working for a prize, children feel let down if they change in ranking, if you are on top and things are easy, the ranking doesn't really push you to go higher, children settle for being ranked low and think they're dumb, etc. |
Anonymous
| And I'm not for the participation medals in sports either, but I'm usually outvoted on this. |
Anonymous
There is more than enough academic competition in our schools already. Please go back to the country from which you came if you do not grasp that. We do not want to be any more like Korea or Russia than we are now. |
Anonymous
I agree! In regard to OP's question... what is to be gained from the ranking in the elementary schools? I actually was opposed to the new FCPS report cards that got rid of As/Bs/Cs and went to 4, 3, 2, 1. After thinking about it a little more, I realized my attachment to the old A/B/C scale was in part b/c of the idea that an "A" means you did better than others (comparison with other kids). The new scale (4, 3, 2, 1) takes away the comparison and gives every child a chance to reach the "top" grade b/c each child is compared with an academic expectation, not with the average score of the class. As a kid who always got As, I know it became a security blanket for me -- I identified myself based on my grades. My kids don't seem to be as connected to the identity of being an "A" student b/c they have never had A/B/Cs (they had O, G, S, N) and with the new system, they won't for several more years. I think it's for the best that teachers are comparing kids to an objective standard rather than to each other. I know, there's not as much pride to be taken from a "4" rating as one might have hearing that one's child is "top of the class" -- but I can get over it. It's better for my kids' self esteem to NOT get attached to the letter grades or comparative rankings and just focus on whether they have learned the material well or need to work harder. Lastly, if there were rankings and my kid was at the lower end (which 50% of the class would be) -- what would that do to a kid's motivation? I can imagine that it would constantly give the lower 50% of kids a mesage that they are the "dumb" ones and they might as well quit. Nothing to be gained for the lower end and very little for the upper end. |
Anonymous
|
Schools could choose to reward kids for academics without using numeric rankings. Teachers for each grade could choose academic "most improved" awards, "best language arts student," and so on, if they wanted to make that effort. But ranking? Yikes! Elementary schools do not keep grade point averages, and GPAs are how high schools come up with those numeric ranks they give students, especially seniors. Don't pile on and ask elementary schools to start somehow compiling an elementary version of GPAs -- it would only worsen the already competitive atmosphere that sadly is present in elementary schools around here.
I do think that some form of recognition for academics would be good, and I do get tired of seeing sports in particular treated like it's the end-all and be-all of kids' achievement -- but usually those sports awards at elementary level are confined to the kids' sports teams and their events, not given AT school for athletic performance at school (at least, not at our school or any I've heard of). But if any elementary school is handing out awards etc. at some year-end school event, that school also should recognize academics in some way. But ranks and points aren't going to work. I suspect that elementary teachers usually don't want to "go there" and give academic awards based on the teachers' judgements, for fear that parents will start asking, "How did that kid get it? What were the criteria? My little Johnny had A's all year and he didn't get it. Why? Is this playing favorites?" Pitiful, but there you have it. When we were kids, there were academic awards at this level -- no big thing, just the teachers' decisions on "Best Math Student," "Best Art Student," "Best Overall Improvement" etc. at year's end -- but back then, and in that part of the country, parents weren't as competitive or demanding of teachers as they are here and now. |
Anonymous
| I know everyone in VA looks down on PG County schools, but I know that they do some things well -- in one school they announce who has learned his/her x2's or x4s or x7s or whatever over the loud speaker each day. I think it is a nice way to instill that sense of accomplishment and to encourage the kids who haven't met the standard yet -- to get on the ball and join those who are being noticed. |
Anonymous
I think this is great, b/c it gives kids recognition for excelling but doesn't involve comparing kids to each other, and there is room for everyone to meet the goal. At elementary age any "rankings" would be counterproductive and purely for the parents' benefit. |
Anonymous
| Our elementary does honors for the early years and I hate it! (yes, my kid got honors). I hope they get rid of it with the new system. |
Anonymous
|
Kids are just as goal oriented as adults. If they think getting all "A"s is good they will strive for it. My kid was much more excited getting his black belt than getting a bunch of 4's. Shouldn't kids have meaningful academic goals as important to them as sports?
The main purpose of school is to prepare our kids for life as adults. In the real world rankings are a part of life. Top performers get prizes (raises) and bottom performers get a chance to find a new job. Obviously in public schools the bottom performers don't get the boot but they should get extra attention and help. If you don't rank them it's all "go-along, get-along" and you get graduates unable to compete in real life. School needn't be esteem building baby sitting factories. 14:33 may not want to be like the Koreans and Russians but I don't want to lose the world to them. I was born here.....what country are you suggesting I go back to? |
Anonymous
| In Finland they only take one test in high school and they've done much better on the PISA tests than we do. Obviously tests and prizes are not valued by the people of that country. Children are interested in learning when they are around others interested in learning and when they are challenged at the right level and allowed to develop their interests. This is where we are failing in America. America already has more tests than most industrialized nations. My bright child knows he's doing well in school. The teacher tells him he's a role model and he's in the highest academic groups. Why would I want to give him a prize for being there as well? What happens when all of a sudden he isn't doing well in something? What if he learns he needs to cheat to keep getting prizes and that carries into other parts of his life? What if he is successful academically but not in any other area because he's put too much focus on one area? These aren't the goals I want for him. My second child is the youngest in school and is doing fine but not at the top. I don't want him learning right from the start that he may never achieve a high level because it isn't true. |
Anonymous
| Montessori also has no tests or homework and IMHO they have a better and more well rounded curriculum and produce passionate learners at a greater rate than the public schools. |
Anonymous
|
The elementary schools my children have attended have all done end-of-quarter awards. They usually give awards for outstanding student, most improved, and then an award for kindness to others or "good citizenship." In the places we've been, a child can only get an award once per year.In middle school, kids get awards for straight A's and in high school, kids earn academic letters for a GPA over 3.85.
We're military, so I'm talking about schools in California and Rhode Island, in addition to here in Fairfax County. I'm surprised to hear that all the schools around here don't do the same. |