The Absurdity of U.S. News College Rankings - Per Malcolm Gladwell

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Read the post again. Yale and Princeton are "quite a bit further down" from Stanford/MIT for tech specifically.

That is definitely true. The holy grail in tech is Stanford, MIT, Carnegie Mellon and Berkeley, and these universities are considered quite a bit better than the next tier of universities for tech.

But I was responding to your post answering my question! If those stats are not relevant to tech (and I agree they are not relevant to tech, or anything else WRT prestige) then don't post them in reply.

You just discounted your entire yield-statistical response.

How many kids voluntarily submit to parchment and is the data verified? I would need accurate and robust data to make such strong statements.

I think most Parchment data comes from participating high schools.

High schools do not always know where kids are admitted unless the students tells their guidance counselor. They only know where you are going when you ask for the transcript to be sent.

The high school knows all colleges a student applied to because the school is asked to send counselor's recommendation letter to all of them.
I think students are also encouraged to provide feedback on which colleges they got in for the Naviance database to benefit later students.
So high schools have the data if they are willing to provide the metadata to parchment (not sure about this)

I wish you had common sense. The high school knows where people applied but not where they got in fool. By the way that is exactly what I said. Many kids may not be "encouraged" (notice that does not mean required) to give over info on their acceptances. In addition, they may lie about their acceptance to save face. (I got in but we did. not have the money-- how many people get into Harvard or whatever school that don't have the money each year????). I specifically told my URM kids NOT to give any info and know a lot of other parents of every socio-economic rage that do not participate. As I said schools know where kids apply, if you ask for help with a waitlist they know that too and finally they know where they send transcripts. Beyond that it is highly suspect.

You may feel insecure to turn down the survey, most students are honest enough and willing to help future students. It may surprise your tiny heart that Naviance is quite accurate and is the best of all the available data concerning college acceptance distribution. If parchment does get a hold of some of the data as someone suggested, their comparison charts then are highly useful.

ok white people. In a school that has few URMs, or anything else that is atypical responding is self-identifying. (Every kid knows who went to Standford for a good 5 years. Then you know the metrics and can figure out every other school the kid applied too. That is very personal. if you are applying to state school maybe you are not personally identifying but for top schools you are) Why would you out your kid. Naviance is not a useful tool for any kids that is not average for the school they attend. If they are an athlete, URM, musician, poet...its not predictive anyway. Why should I feel insecure all my kids went top 10? and had multiple offers? I just don't feel I have to submit personal identifying data. When I went top10 we did not have Naviance and guess what we still went to college.

Why would you "out" your kid? Why would I "out" my kid who got into Stanford? I would out them from the mountaintop! How insulting for you to think they should be embarrassed of their accomplishments in any way!

Naviance scattergrams show a dot, with no personal identifying information. So you are not "outing" anyone. Anybody who can figure out it is your kid already knows the deal about your kid, don't they?

The main reason to do it -- and this is important -- because it helps other students, whether you think it does or not. That's how data works. When you have all of the data, the outliers self-identify. It's easy, actually, the more data you have. When people like you leave out the data because of your personal issues, that hurts everyone. But I guess you don't care about that.

It's certainly your choice, and you are certainly entitled to make a selfish one, if that is your concern.

It does not help other students in a small sample because each person is unique. In big schools with robust data, it is very helpful. when you have one or two kids getting into the school you need the back story to make sense of the dots. For example, the kid with an unusually low GPA for X School was a starting pitcher that went pro and the kid who was rejected with great credentials had been suspended for drinking twice. If there were 50 or 100 kids that applied or got into X school it would be helpful. I am talking about schools with under 100-200 for the graduating class. Finally, at base, I don't care and I generally reject anything that requires my kids to experience discomfort for the education of others. Simply put, their job is to be students and kid not some kind of teacher for other students. I will always be more concerned about their privacy than a mass of unknown people. i guarantee there are others like me. If you call that selfish I own it. I definitely felt put on display at the independent schools I attended and as a result I have chosen not to do that with my kids.

Again, you fail to understand how data works.

You say the problem is there is not enough data, and your solution is, don't submit so there is even less?

Glad you own selfish. It's highly appropriate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

DP I really resent your post. If you do not want people to actually personally hate you, you might not want to talk to them like a child. Your post was so offensive. Who do you want to be?? "I think you can be better"?? you called a person names os I am going to call you Childish-- that is calling someone a name-- but its grown up when you all knowing one do it??? What kind of person are you???

PP called another poster "fool". You think that is appropriate? You don't think the poster can do better than that?

I do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

If you choose to say the discomfort and feelings of my URM kids should be sacrificed for the benefit of other families and you admit that you have not experienced it --- I think you have lost your ability to bully. It is not irrelevant to the mental health of my live children and that is my primary concern. To you its "distasteful and irrelevant". Yet you admit that you have envy. You are shockingly insensitive and self interested. Who cares about the impact on those kids, its irrelevant to what my family needs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

If you choose to say the discomfort and feelings of my URM kids should be sacrificed for the benefit of other families and you admit that you have not experienced it --- I think you have lost your ability to bully. It is not irrelevant to the mental health of my live children and that is my primary concern. To you its "distasteful and irrelevant". Yet you admit that you have envy. You are shockingly insensitive and self interested. Who cares about the impact on those kids, its irrelevant to what my family needs.

The fact is you do not care about irrelevant URM kids and you are dismissive of them because you think of them as animals. you have dehumanized them and their feelings and its irrelevant to your need for their data on Naviance. It's an old racist trope. it's only distasteful and irrelevant because they arent really human. So glad you don't call people names while you dehumanize them and their feelings.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

If you choose to say the discomfort and feelings of my URM kids should be sacrificed for the benefit of other families and you admit that you have not experienced it --- I think you have lost your ability to bully. It is not irrelevant to the mental health of my live children and that is my primary concern. To you its "distasteful and irrelevant". Yet you admit that you have envy. You are shockingly insensitive and self interested. Who cares about the impact on those kids, its irrelevant to what my family needs.

I didn't say I had envy - I said I had experienced it. I have a kid at one of the colleges everyone longs for. Yes, Naviance let us know how unlikely his admissions was despite his super high stats, so we planned accordingly. But it worked out for him.

So you have it 100% wrong. While my kid is not URM or an athlete, we have experienced the jealously of others. We submitted his data anyway, because the school asked us to and it was the right thing to do. I hope it helped the next kid like mine.

You still haven't apologized for calling the other poster a fool. This is my last word on this topic, and my last interaction with you. At least until you can be respectful and polite.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

If you choose to say the discomfort and feelings of my URM kids should be sacrificed for the benefit of other families and you admit that you have not experienced it --- I think you have lost your ability to bully. It is not irrelevant to the mental health of my live children and that is my primary concern. To you its "distasteful and irrelevant". Yet you admit that you have envy. You are shockingly insensitive and self interested. Who cares about the impact on those kids, its irrelevant to what my family needs.

DP: The idea that one is selfish by not contributing your data is totally nuts. If, like the PP, you believe the data distorts understanding (which Naviance around schools with fewer applicants, holistic admissions and higher rejection rates absolutely does), it can be THOUGHTFUL to decide not to add data to the harm. I am a data scientist and I agree that every person should be mindful about how your data is used and not just assume that it "helps others." I think Naviance which includes two variables --SAT and GPA--the former which is less and less relevant to many colleges-- gives a false picture to students--particularly to low acceptance rate colleges with holistic admissions. Harvard's naviance profile tells you nothing predictive about your child's admission that you couldn't know by looking at their overall admission rates and institutional profile.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On a personal note, I think your name calling of PP was unwarranted and you should apologize. We're just trying to have a helpful discussion, even if opinions differ, and that does not help. In fact it hurts your otherwise insightful post.

For the second time, that poster was annoying because they repeated the same thing like it was new. It is rude to tell someone they are wrong and say the same thing. The post said nothing and was only made so the poster could pretend to be smart. It reminded me of being in a work meeting with someone saying the obvious, counselor know where kids apply because they do recommendations and they encourage kids to inform about decisions. So they have the data??? What about that makes any sense. I encourage people to give me a million dollars so I have a million dollars?? I do not think the statement added any value to the conversation except for the poster to have an ego boost. I thought the poster was an idiot and I am not insecure or heartless. If you want to treat Naviance like it's the bible please do. Just remember when admission decisions come out and do not be surprised if it's not accurate for your kid. This happens every year. Why? because the data set may not be as accurate as you think.

You called the person names, and that is childish and uncalled for. If that's who you want to be, fine. I think you can be better.

Also, as I posted above, if the Naviance data is not accurate and not helpful, it's because people don't participate to make it useful. So if your accusation is correct it is because of people like you. At our school, everyone contributes, including our many athletes and URMs. We're in this process together as a community. It works. Try it.

I don't need to be better but you do. You are very judgy and kind of holier than thou. You actually personally know everyone contributes to Naviance??? Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton and Yale??? I can guarantee it does not. It predicts schools that have massive numbers of students who apply... otherwise know as robust data. You are not my mother and there is no need for you to tell me "I think you can be better." What is that?? Who do you think you are?? So rude and jerky.

Again, you don't understand data. OF COURSE Naviance predicts Harvard, Princeton, and Yale. And since 95% of those are rejections, it predicts them extremely well. This is how data works. If you leave out your data, the dataset is a tiny bit worse. And you don't care.

You think I am "holier than thou"? I agree. You called a poster names. I did not do that.

I. Just think you are a terrible judgmental person to your core and have a very narrow view of the world. You have not walked in my shoes but are an insensitive lecturer about what is right. There is no discussion because you know everything and are 100% right. You and your forceful righteous belief is why we have riots in the US. No one is 100% right about the life experience of others. Simply put you have totally missed how it can feed hostility for urns and athletes and it actually does every year…. But you don’t see it or care. I believe you can do better and you have an illusion that your community is superior. Maybe you should actually talk to some people. Even your comment about 95% rejected from HPY that is not the case in small privates. More like 33% accepted and people being angry they are not part of that group. You just don’t know the environment you have so strongly made decisions about right and wrong. But hey you know better always.

- I know not to call someone whose opinion I differ with "fool" or "idiot". I have not called you those things, BTW.

- I know Naviance is the best source of admissions data there is. I wish there was better, but there is not.

- I know the Naviance data is only as valuable as the contributions people make to it, which does help other families. "hostility for URMs and athletes" is not a thing I have experienced, except for envy, and while that distasteful it is irrelevant to dots on a scattergram. So why let some bitter folks stop the majority who are not from having useful data?

- I know that you have admitted you are selfish by not contributing your data.

You can continue to make a lot of ad hominems but if you want to stay on the facts and address these points specifically we can continue the discussion with respect for each other. If you choose to insult and attack the people rather than the points I will have no more to do with you.

If you choose to say the discomfort and feelings of my URM kids should be sacrificed for the benefit of other families and you admit that you have not experienced it --- I think you have lost your ability to bully. It is not irrelevant to the mental health of my live children and that is my primary concern. To you its "distasteful and irrelevant". Yet you admit that you have envy. You are shockingly insensitive and self interested. Who cares about the impact on those kids, its irrelevant to what my family needs.

I didn't say I had envy - I said I had experienced it. I have a kid at one of the colleges everyone longs for. Yes, Naviance let us know how unlikely his admissions was despite his super high stats, so we planned accordingly. But it worked out for him.

So you have it 100% wrong. While my kid is not URM or an athlete, we have experienced the jealously of others. We submitted his data anyway, because the school asked us to and it was the right thing to do. I hope it helped the next kid like mine.

You still haven't apologized for calling the other poster a fool. This is my last word on this topic, and my last interaction with you. At least until you can be respectful and polite.


I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

Now I know you are just trolling and I am right to be done with you. Will not take the bait.

Have a lovely day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

Now I know you are just trolling and I am right to be done with you. Will not take the bait.

Have a lovely day!

Not trolling you are a racist and see everything through that lens. I don't have to apologize because you want it. I don'. have to give personal data because you want it. New flash you do not run the world!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

Now I know you are just trolling and I am right to be done with you. Will not take the bait.

Have a lovely day!

Not trolling you are a racist and see everything through that lens. I don't have to apologize because you want it. I don'. have to give personal data because you want it. New flash you do not run the world!

I didn't say anything racial or racist. You know nothing about me. You are a troll. 100%.

Have a lovely day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

Now I know you are just trolling and I am right to be done with you. Will not take the bait.

Have a lovely day!

Not trolling you are a racist and see everything through that lens. I don't have to apologize because you want it. I don'. have to give personal data because you want it. New flash you do not run the world!

I didn't say anything racial or racist. You know nothing about me. You are a troll. 100%.

Have a lovely day!

you one hundred percent did. I believe you said you were envious of URMs accepted at desirable schools but their discomfort was "irrelevant and minor" because your family needs the data. That is an established definition of racism. I don't know or care about the impact of the URMs i just need what I need and be damned with them and their needs. It's prioritizing your needs over others and minimizing the impact. Maybe you should read a book about racism because you are a textbook case. You are a total and complete racist. Racism does me calling me a name which you did anyway. You have been called on your behavior by the data scientist. You are not 100% right.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I will never apologize and I am glad not to interact with such a self centered dehumanizing racist.

Now I know you are just trolling and I am right to be done with you. Will not take the bait.

Have a lovely day!

Not trolling you are a racist and see everything through that lens. I don't have to apologize because you want it. I don'. have to give personal data because you want it. New flash you do not run the world!

I didn't say anything racial or racist. You know nothing about me. You are a troll. 100%.

Have a lovely day!

DP racist white women who tell URM mom to disregard kids emotional health and submit personal identifying data of child because its best for her family even though it will not help in small sample situation. Then she wonders why she is viewed as racist?