I'm so tired of the "think of the teachers and administrators" rhetoric on every thread.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:my middle school kid had zero interaction with teachers the last couple months of school. zoom meetings were a joke and thankfully not required because there wasnt any teaching done. no PE, no music, no science, no grading by teachers. just told to look at Kahn academy videos for math and read a book for English. my husband and I who both work had to pick up the slack. I would have thought teachers could at least live stream orbprerecord the lesson. in fact, you just need one teacher in the county to prerecord a lesson, such as algebra. but whatever was done in 4th quarter was a paid vacation for most teachers.

What school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And what if it happens multiple times? And then flu season comes along and there are so many teachers calling out that they can’t run the school? I don’t understand this magical thinking that if things just open as usual, the problem disappears. That isn’t the case.

Nobody has said that the problem will disappear.

What people have said is that the schools need to be open. The schools need to not be closed. If something comes up after that, deal with it then. Do not close all of the schools pre-emptively and indefinitely on grounds that something might happen in the future that might require some of the schools to close for a limited period of time.

And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

This. The truth is that schools were not normal before COVID. They were a rolling dumpster fire that parents chose to ignore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

My kid's school was. It's not over capacity. So can my kid go to school, please?

Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is the crux of this debate. If schools do not open full-time but parents are told they need to go to the office full time, they fear they will get fired.

First, I don’t think this will happen. If you run your own business I’m sure there is a lot to worry about, but if all the major school systems are doing distance learning then employers are not going to get away with simply firing all the parents.

Second, I think this is a fear that is based on relatively recent generational change. We are now living in a time when most people think it’s necessary for both parents to work in order to survive financially. Obviously this was not always the case. But given that we live in these times, we have come to assume schools are the social support that makes this possible. It turns out this was not a reliable assumption in these historic times. Unfortunately, the virus doesn’t care that you have to go to work to pay the bills.

No parents will be expected to spend even more money to get a babysitter/nanny and return to work or lose their job.

As a woman and a mom I have already had to quit my job since March to stay at Home with my two younger elementary school kids. And of course camp was canceled so there is that. So I can't even begin to look for another job until school goes back to normal.

It sucks. And it's reality. But the school systems don't seem to care about the crappy education that is being provided through DL especially to young elementary kids. They certainly don't care about parents. I just don't know what the solution is but I have never been so stressed in my life.

It’s really an awful situation, and I’m sorry to hear it. But what is your evidence that the school system doesn’t care about students and/or parents? A significant majority of teachers and administrators are themselves parents of MCPS students. They’re in the same boat as us. Half the posts on here claim DL is too hard and the other half claim it’s too easy. How is MCPS supposed to do this “right”? And they can’t even just decide to open if they want to, because the state of MD makes that call. We all want to blame people, but all we have to blame is the virus.

Teachers are NOT in the same boat. They're getting paid to stay home with their kids.

Just like the millions of other people currently working from home. Are you angry at all of those people, too? Or just the teachers? Because a lot of people are being paid a lot more to work from home than we are.

I'm not angry at teachers. They're not able to work from home. But that means they're getting paid to not work from home. Whereas people working from home are actually working. Other people in their situation (working jobs that practically cannot be done from home) were furloughed. I'm not saying they should have been, but they're in a special class.

Okay Karen. I’m sure you work so much harder than everyone else. I work from home all day every day but I know my work isn’t valuable to you anymore, since it doesn’t provide you with full time childcare. Just admit that and be honest.

A) No, you not teaching (but still getting paid) while at home - as nice as that may feel for you - isn’t a good use of taxpayer dollars or useful for kids who need education. It also happens to be incredibly disruptive to parents and children who need it the most; middle and working class families who depend on paychecks in exchange for hours worked. It speaks VOLUMES that teachers don’t think about the fact that not everyone gets paid if they don’t work and can’t afford a nanny or babysitter. Sure, education isn’t babysitting but it’s a long-standing social construct that allows parents, particularly women, a consistent space in time to earn an income.

B) Cut the “Karen” crap. It’s misogynistic AF. Either we are for not sh*ting on humans because of race/gender identity/sex identity/religion/ethnicity - or you’re not. Pick one. If it’s not right for women, then it is not right.

So you think you can simultaneously tell me that I’m not working (you have absolutely no idea what I do, so thanks for that assessment! Very valuable and I’m absolutely devastated) while demanding that other people respect you. Got it.

You don’t respect teachers or our work, and you’ve made that abundantly clear. You also think that we should be martyrs so the “working class” can go back to their jobs. No thanks. Maybe THEIR employers and THEIR families should work out how to best provide childcare while working during a pandemic. Why can’t companies make some sacrifices, like providing on-site day care? It’s always on the schools to solve societies ills, and it really needs to stop. Schools don’t have the personnel or funding to solve every problem (poverty, childcare, food insecurity, medical care, child abuse, mental health), and it absolutely takes away from their actual purpose, which is education. There is no long standing construct that says we have to watch your kids during a pandemic.

A few good points here, a few bad ones, and a bad attitude. True: schools are forced to address deep societal problems like food insecurity. False: no parents respect teachers. I do! We’ve been blessed with great teachers and most of the ones I know want to go back. A couple are afraid and I fully support them in their desire to do DL for kids and parents *who want that*. But most of us don’t want that because we saw that our kids learned so little last spring. Because let’s be real, DL for an hour a day isn’t educating any kid. And it shouldn’t be forced on the rest of us. Not to mention there is a lot more to parents wanting actual school again than the “working class” wanting “day care.” For someone putting on such airs about the mission to educate, you seem to be ignoring the subject entirely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think this is the crux of this debate. If schools do not open full-time but parents are told they need to go to the office full time, they fear they will get fired.

First, I don’t think this will happen. If you run your own business I’m sure there is a lot to worry about, but if all the major school systems are doing distance learning then employers are not going to get away with simply firing all the parents.

Second, I think this is a fear that is based on relatively recent generational change. We are now living in a time when most people think it’s necessary for both parents to work in order to survive financially. Obviously this was not always the case. But given that we live in these times, we have come to assume schools are the social support that makes this possible. It turns out this was not a reliable assumption in these historic times. Unfortunately, the virus doesn’t care that you have to go to work to pay the bills.

No parents will be expected to spend even more money to get a babysitter/nanny and return to work or lose their job.

As a woman and a mom I have already had to quit my job since March to stay at Home with my two younger elementary school kids. And of course camp was canceled so there is that. So I can't even begin to look for another job until school goes back to normal.

It sucks. And it's reality. But the school systems don't seem to care about the crappy education that is being provided through DL especially to young elementary kids. They certainly don't care about parents. I just don't know what the solution is but I have never been so stressed in my life.

It’s really an awful situation, and I’m sorry to hear it. But what is your evidence that the school system doesn’t care about students and/or parents? A significant majority of teachers and administrators are themselves parents of MCPS students. They’re in the same boat as us. Half the posts on here claim DL is too hard and the other half claim it’s too easy. How is MCPS supposed to do this “right”? And they can’t even just decide to open if they want to, because the state of MD makes that call. We all want to blame people, but all we have to blame is the virus.

Teachers are NOT in the same boat. They're getting paid to stay home with their kids.

Just like the millions of other people currently working from home. Are you angry at all of those people, too? Or just the teachers? Because a lot of people are being paid a lot more to work from home than we are.

I'm not angry at teachers. They're not able to work from home. But that means they're getting paid to not work from home. Whereas people working from home are actually working. Other people in their situation (working jobs that practically cannot be done from home) were furloughed. I'm not saying they should have been, but they're in a special class.

Okay Karen. I’m sure you work so much harder than everyone else. I work from home all day every day but I know my work isn’t valuable to you anymore, since it doesn’t provide you with full time childcare. Just admit that and be honest.

A) No, you not teaching (but still getting paid) while at home - as nice as that may feel for you - isn’t a good use of taxpayer dollars or useful for kids who need education. It also happens to be incredibly disruptive to parents and children who need it the most; middle and working class families who depend on paychecks in exchange for hours worked. It speaks VOLUMES that teachers don’t think about the fact that not everyone gets paid if they don’t work and can’t afford a nanny or babysitter. Sure, education isn’t babysitting but it’s a long-standing social construct that allows parents, particularly women, a consistent space in time to earn an income.

B) Cut the “Karen” crap. It’s misogynistic AF. Either we are for not sh*ting on humans because of race/gender identity/sex identity/religion/ethnicity - or you’re not. Pick one. If it’s not right for women, then it is not right.

So you think you can simultaneously tell me that I’m not working (you have absolutely no idea what I do, so thanks for that assessment! Very valuable and I’m absolutely devastated) while demanding that other people respect you. Got it.

You don’t respect teachers or our work, and you’ve made that abundantly clear. You also think that we should be martyrs so the “working class” can go back to their jobs. No thanks. Maybe THEIR employers and THEIR families should work out how to best provide childcare while working during a pandemic. Why can’t companies make some sacrifices, like providing on-site day care? It’s always on the schools to solve societies ills, and it really needs to stop. Schools don’t have the personnel or funding to solve every problem (poverty, childcare, food insecurity, medical care, child abuse, mental health), and it absolutely takes away from their actual purpose, which is education. There is no long standing construct that says we have to watch your kids during a pandemic.

A few good points here, a few bad ones, and a bad attitude. True: schools are forced to address deep societal problems like food insecurity. False: no parents respect teachers. I do! We’ve been blessed with great teachers and most of the ones I know want to go back. A couple are afraid and I fully support them in their desire to do DL for kids and parents *who want that*. But most of us don’t want that because we saw that our kids learned so little last spring. Because let’s be real, DL for an hour a day isn’t educating any kid. And it shouldn’t be forced on the rest of us. Not to mention there is a lot more to parents wanting actual school again than the “working class” wanting “day care.” For someone putting on such airs about the mission to educate, you seem to be ignoring the subject entirely.

DP. The parents who do respect teachers are not nearly as vocal as the ones who don’t. And even many of the parents who claim to respect teachers are willing to sacrifice the ones at high risk in order to avoid DL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And what if it happens multiple times? And then flu season comes along and there are so many teachers calling out that they can’t run the school? I don’t understand this magical thinking that if things just open as usual, the problem disappears. That isn’t the case.

Nobody has said that the problem will disappear.

What people have said is that the schools need to be open. The schools need to not be closed. If something comes up after that, deal with it then. Do not close all of the schools pre-emptively and indefinitely on grounds that something might happen in the future that might require some of the schools to close for a limited period of time.

And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

This. The truth is that schools were not normal before COVID. They were a rolling dumpster fire that parents chose to ignore.

Parents chose to ignore? No.

Parents and communities across the county have been calling for resolution to overcrowding for decades in some cases. Cut the crap and stay focused.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

My kid's school was. It's not over capacity. So can my kid go to school, please?

Which school?

About half of the schools in MCPS are at or under capacity.

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/after-delays-interim-boundary-analysis-report-released/

[Anonymous]

I don’t think we need to engage people (see several above) who are calling MCPS a charade, a joke, a dumpster fire. This hyperbole shows that these are people who would hate anything the school system tried to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think we need to engage people (see several above) who are calling MCPS a charade, a joke, a dumpster fire. This hyperbole shows that these are people who would hate anything the school system tried to do.

That’s ridiculous. People can call out the county for the lackluster performance over the last four months and still hope that there’s something redeeming about MCPS - and that it can do better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And what if it happens multiple times? And then flu season comes along and there are so many teachers calling out that they can’t run the school? I don’t understand this magical thinking that if things just open as usual, the problem disappears. That isn’t the case.

Nobody has said that the problem will disappear.

What people have said is that the schools need to be open. The schools need to not be closed. If something comes up after that, deal with it then. Do not close all of the schools pre-emptively and indefinitely on grounds that something might happen in the future that might require some of the schools to close for a limited period of time.

And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

This. The truth is that schools were not normal before COVID. They were a rolling dumpster fire that parents chose to ignore.

Parents chose to ignore? No.

Parents and communities across the county have been calling for resolution to overcrowding for decades in some cases. Cut the crap and stay focused.

They voted against the funding needed to remedy it. They voted against BOE and County Council candidates who want innovative policies that would have reduced overcrowding. So in some cases, they not only ignored the problem, but they worked to continue it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

My kid's school was. It's not over capacity. So can my kid go to school, please?

Which school?

About half of the schools in MCPS are at or under capacity.

https://bethesdamagazine.com/bethesda-beat/schools/after-delays-interim-boundary-analysis-report-released/

Which one was specifically built to hold that many. Some are under capacity for reasons other than good planning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And what if it happens multiple times? And then flu season comes along and there are so many teachers calling out that they can’t run the school? I don’t understand this magical thinking that if things just open as usual, the problem disappears. That isn’t the case.

Nobody has said that the problem will disappear.

What people have said is that the schools need to be open. The schools need to not be closed. If something comes up after that, deal with it then. Do not close all of the schools pre-emptively and indefinitely on grounds that something might happen in the future that might require some of the schools to close for a limited period of time.

And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

Who is “they”? Parents across the county - like me and many others - have been lobbying for a remedy to overcrowding for years. The boundary analysis would also help highlight how to remedy overcrowding. Unfortunately, wealthy white people upcountry don’t want to mix and mingle with less well-off brown kids who tend to be in the overcrowded schools. So there we are. But there isn’t one monolithic group of parents who ignore overcrowding.

This. The truth is that schools were not normal before COVID. They were a rolling dumpster fire that parents chose to ignore.

Parents chose to ignore? No.

Parents and communities across the county have been calling for resolution to overcrowding for decades in some cases. Cut the crap and stay focused.

They voted against the funding needed to remedy it. They voted against BOE and County Council candidates who want innovative policies that would have reduced overcrowding. So in some cases, they not only ignored the problem, but they worked to continue it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
And what if it happens multiple times? And then flu season comes along and there are so many teachers calling out that they can’t run the school? I don’t understand this magical thinking that if things just open as usual, the problem disappears. That isn’t the case.

Nobody has said that the problem will disappear.

What people have said is that the schools need to be open. The schools need to not be closed. If something comes up after that, deal with it then. Do not close all of the schools pre-emptively and indefinitely on grounds that something might happen in the future that might require some of the schools to close for a limited period of time.

And I’m sure parents won’t be absolutely furious that they planned around open schools when it turns out not to be feasible.
The fact is that the schools aren’t going to open at full capacity because they were never meant to house so many students. Class sizes should have never been allowed to get out of control. Buildings shouldn’t have hundreds or thousands of kids passing in close quarters between periods. Elementary students can’t get individualized attention in a class of thirty. If we actually prioritized education in this country then maybe we’d be in a better position right now. The countries that have opened schools have done so with testing, health assessments, sanitation, masks, and dramatically reduced student populations (some countries all of the above, and some a few). Parents here seem to think we will just go back to “normal” in the fall. It’s not happening.

This. The truth is that schools were not normal before COVID. They were a rolling dumpster fire that parents chose to ignore.

Parents chose to ignore? No.

Parents and communities across the county have been calling for resolution to overcrowding for decades in some cases. Cut the crap and stay focused.

They voted against the funding needed to remedy it. They voted against BOE and County Council candidates who want innovative policies that would have reduced overcrowding. So in some cases, they not only ignored the problem, but they worked to continue it.[/

Who is “they”? Parents across the county - like me and many others - have been lobbying for a remedy to overcrowding for years. The boundary analysis would also help highlight how to remedy overcrowding. Unfortunately, wealthy white people upcountry don’t want to mix and mingle with less well-off brown kids who tend to be in the overcrowded schools. So there we are. But there isn’t one monolithic group of parents who ignore overcrowding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You don't want to go back. That's your choice.

But that should also be your paycheck. I wish mcps would tell these teachers who refuse to come back that they can take unpaid leaves of absence for as long as they want.

I bet their tune would change

I’d love an unpaid leave of absence until this is over. I could teach in a virtual school meanwhile.

[Anonymous]

If you were hoping that MCPS would be able to replace veteran teachers who quit by offering emergency certification to any warm body, I have bad news for you.

Emergency Certificate
On April 28, 2020, the State Board of Education (SBOE) voted to adopt amendments to the Code of Maryland Regulation (COMAR) 13A.12.01.14 Waivers and Special Certification Provisions on an emergency basis. The Administrative Executive and Legislative Review Committee approved the emergency regulation on May 26, 2020.
The amendment outlines the conditions of an emergency certificate, established to be issued during a state of emergency at the authorization of the State Superintendent, to those who meet the outlined criteria. The purpose of this certificate is to allow those educator candidates who have completed all of the requirements of certification with the exception of assessments and/or clinical experiences, the ability to accept a position with a Maryland local school system, state institution, or nonpublic school approved under COMAR 13A.09.10, as they complete the remainder of the professional certification requirements.
On May 26, 2020, the emergency regulation took effect and will remain in effect until November 20, 2020. During this time, it is the intention of the MSDE to recommend the promulgation of this amendment through the standard regulatory process.


In other words, if you did not take the required coursework —which includes the education courses, you are out of luck. Even if you have a 1980s doctorate in physics and suddenly found yourself unemployed because Macy’s is closing stores.