APS middle school boundary process

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.

So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.

To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.

Not the same at all. Right now our DH kids walk a block over Patrick Henry in our own neighborhood. From my house it's about a 5-6min walk. Instead option H would do one of three things. Get her up a lot earlier to catch a bus. Get her up a lot earlier to walk on a dark trail that I won't even run on alone in the dark. By the way, do a crime report run on the number of sexual assaults and robberies along the W&OD and Four Mile Run trails in the last few years and tell me you'd be comfortable with your prepubescent child walking there alone. Or, I drive her, thus contributing to all the traffic that the Carlin Springs neighborhood objected to with the idea of a high school there.

1.5mi walk zones are a joke. For many of us, our walk zone is under half a mile, and yes, the kids walk.
Want real diversity, start swapping kids between South Arlington and Williamsburg. Until then, if you have a school remaining under 10% FARMS in what you claim is a relatively small county, then this is lip service to diversity while sacrificing every other factor that APS claims it takes into consideration.

It's not lip service. Are the options perfect? No, but parents complained about the islands and APS listened and decided there will be no more islands or carve-outs, and the location of Stratford makes it really difficult to preserve diversity or increase it at Williamsburg.

Doing nothing because we can't do everything is just about the most pathetic argument I've heard. It's like gun nuts who insist we shouldn't regulate firearms because we'll never stop ALL criminals from gaining access to firearms.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live a little under 1.5 miles from Jefferson and just over 2 miles from Gunston, but because of where the boundary is my kid rides the bus to Gunston. Seems preety dicey to me when he wants to ride his bike (has to ride down Glebe and get under 395 while crossing several on and off ramps). Would never in a million years occur to me to complain about this or insist that we switch to a "walkable" middle school. Life isn't perfect and I can't believe how many people think that their kid should be entitled to the public school experience that they have decided is optimal, over what is best for the 20,000 student population as a whole. Get over yourselves.

Actually, you sort of make the argument against yourself. You have two schools that are not walkable, as opposed to a walkable school and an unwalkable one. Sorry you are not seeing the difference.

Jefferson is totally walkable/bikable for us. Much easier to cross Columbia Pike than to deal with Glebe/395 and then it is just walking through neighborhoods, plus it is a flatter route (getting home from Gunston is basically uphill the whole way).

And to the other snarky PP, I wouldn't have a problem with Kenmore, either--my other kid is a theater kid and we're thinking about transferring there for MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.

So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.

To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.

Not the same at all. Right now our DH kids walk a block over Patrick Henry in our own neighborhood. From my house it's about a 5-6min walk. Instead option H would do one of three things. Get her up a lot earlier to catch a bus. Get her up a lot earlier to walk on a dark trail that I won't even run on alone in the dark. By the way, do a crime report run on the number of sexual assaults and robberies along the W&OD and Four Mile Run trails in the last few years and tell me you'd be comfortable with your prepubescent child walking there alone. Or, I drive her, thus contributing to all the traffic that the Carlin Springs neighborhood objected to with the idea of a high school there.

1.5mi walk zones are a joke. For many of us, our walk zone is under half a mile, and yes, the kids walk.
Want real diversity, start swapping kids between South Arlington and Williamsburg. Until then, if you have a school remaining under 10% FARMS in what you claim is a relatively small county, then this is lip service to diversity while sacrificing every other factor that APS claims it takes into consideration.

It's not lip service. Are the options perfect? No, but parents complained about the islands and APS listened and decided there will be no more islands or carve-outs, and the location of Stratford makes it really difficult to preserve diversity or increase it at Williamsburg.

Doing nothing because we can't do everything is just about the most pathetic argument I've heard. It's like gun nuts who insist we shouldn't regulate firearms because we'll never stop ALL criminals from gaining access to firearms.

I didn't say do nothing, my point is don't do something that isn't common sense and ignores every other factor. APS parents across the county have repeatedly said their #1 priority is neighborhood schools. Some of these options completely ignore the concept of even the most basic, smallest walk zone even if the community is against it, and it will cost a lot more money, and it impacts in a tremendous way the sleep of a lot more kids. Already too many kids are up and on a bus before 7am. There is no reason to make even more kids do this, and yes the numbers show that a few of these options do radically increase the number of bus riders, Financial costs in terms of acquiring and storing buses, not to mention cost of fuel and salaries, hasn't been factored in or published.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This attempt to control for diversity seems so ill conceived. APS can do what it wants and redistrict all it wants. No way will their silly attempts fundamentally change anything, though. People in N. Arlington will either sell and move to Fairfax County, or send their kids to private before sending them to a horrible school. Lol, can you imagine any parents in the current Williamsburg zone allowing their kids to go to Kenmore? Ridiculous.

I do not have to imagine it. I know 3 families in my circle of friends who are zoned for Williamsburg but decided to send their kids to Kenmore.

Oops, forgot one. Make that 4 families.

Sure.

The only way you'd believe me is if I posted their names and addresses and I am not going to do that. Those 4 families felt Kenmore was a better fit for their children then Williamsburg and in each instance their child attended for all three years of MS.

Williamsburg sent 28 kids to Kenmore
Swanson sent 36. It's on the transfer report. No need to go on personal anecdotes.

Why do families transfer to Kenmore (pure curiousity, no judgment - I have babies)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This attempt to control for diversity seems so ill conceived. APS can do what it wants and redistrict all it wants. No way will their silly attempts fundamentally change anything, though. People in N. Arlington will either sell and move to Fairfax County, or send their kids to private before sending them to a horrible school. Lol, can you imagine any parents in the current Williamsburg zone allowing their kids to go to Kenmore? Ridiculous.

I do not have to imagine it. I know 3 families in my circle of friends who are zoned for Williamsburg but decided to send their kids to Kenmore.

Oops, forgot one. Make that 4 families.

Well, there you go. We can just even out the demographics with Williamsburg volunteers, no need to bus kids of Swanson families from whom walkable neighborhood schools are a priority. Problem solved.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This attempt to control for diversity seems so ill conceived. APS can do what it wants and redistrict all it wants. No way will their silly attempts fundamentally change anything, though. People in N. Arlington will either sell and move to Fairfax County, or send their kids to private before sending them to a horrible school. Lol, can you imagine any parents in the current Williamsburg zone allowing their kids to go to Kenmore? Ridiculous.

I do not have to imagine it. I know 3 families in my circle of friends who are zoned for Williamsburg but decided to send their kids to Kenmore.

Oops, forgot one. Make that 4 families.

Sure.

The only way you'd believe me is if I posted their names and addresses and I am not going to do that. Those 4 families felt Kenmore was a better fit for their children then Williamsburg and in each instance their child attended for all three years of MS.

Williamsburg sent 28 kids to Kenmore
Swanson sent 36. It's on the transfer report. No need to go on personal anecdotes.

Why do families transfer to Kenmore (pure curiousity, no judgment - I have babies)?

Arts program?
Less drugs than WMS?

I have an APS teacher friend who sent her kids to Kenmore over Swanson - distance was about the same. I'll have to ask her about her reasons.

[Anonymous]

People want to avoid negative influences at Williamsburg. Too permissive. Too many drugs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live a little under 1.5 miles from Jefferson and just over 2 miles from Gunston, but because of where the boundary is my kid rides the bus to Gunston. Seems preety dicey to me when he wants to ride his bike (has to ride down Glebe and get under 395 while crossing several on and off ramps). Would never in a million years occur to me to complain about this or insist that we switch to a "walkable" middle school. Life isn't perfect and I can't believe how many people think that their kid should be entitled to the public school experience that they have decided is optimal, over what is best for the 20,000 student population as a whole. Get over yourselves.

+1 Preach

Agree. We live 1.8 miles from W-L. Fairly flat, easy ride miles. We live 2.0 miles to Wakefield. These 2 miles include basically a mountain, nearly impossible to bike. But we are inbound (and bus riders) for Wakefield.
I understand that change is hard and there will be some people who are unhappy. But we have to look at the whole picture. We are a COMMUNITY.

Ummmmm......When you live 0.5 miles from Swanson and you are going to be rezoned, you might think differently.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People want to avoid negative influences at Williamsburg. Too permissive. Too many drugs.

I think some families might choose Kenmore because there is a less competitive atmosphere and less personal pressure. Still some very high achievers, to be sure, but every one we know is pretty laid back - there is nothing cutthroat about Kenmore. There is more racial, ethnic, and socioeconomic diversity which matters to some people. It's also a smaller school than Williamsburg and Swanson, it's not bursting at the seams with kids, it's a fairly new building and a very pleasant one at that, it has a nice atmosphere for learning. And as others have said, the arts and technology programs are excellent. Theater, dance, visual arts, there are computer labs for art classes to use, a super awesome tech shop, robotics class etc. and most of these are also offered as Act II so more kids can take advantage. Many on the staff are very experienced teachers and have stayed at Kenmore for a long time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We live a little under 1.5 miles from Jefferson and just over 2 miles from Gunston, but because of where the boundary is my kid rides the bus to Gunston. Seems preety dicey to me when he wants to ride his bike (has to ride down Glebe and get under 395 while crossing several on and off ramps). Would never in a million years occur to me to complain about this or insist that we switch to a "walkable" middle school. Life isn't perfect and I can't believe how many people think that their kid should be entitled to the public school experience that they have decided is optimal, over what is best for the 20,000 student population as a whole. Get over yourselves.

+1 Preach

Agree. We live 1.8 miles from W-L. Fairly flat, easy ride miles. We live 2.0 miles to Wakefield. These 2 miles include basically a mountain, nearly impossible to bike. But we are inbound (and bus riders) for Wakefield.
I understand that change is hard and there will be some people who are unhappy. But we have to look at the whole picture. We are a COMMUNITY.

Ummmmm......When you live 0.5 miles from Swanson and you are going to be rezoned, you might think differently.

Someone is getting inconvenienced. Them’s the breaks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.

So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.

To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.

FYI a ton of kids walk that route to school. My child is one of them and I also drive that route at the time they are walking. There are two crossing guards at the intersection with Route 50, by the way, which someone pointed out you pass under and not over. My child has a huge group tonwalk with in the morning and also in the afternoon. Even with Act II, sports and activities, they always find friends to walk home with.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.

So it's ok for an 11 year old to walk 1.5 miles using the bike trail so she can cross Rt 50 (before sunrise for part of the year), rather than walk the 0.5 miles to the school next to their house? That scenario should really help the traffic around Kenmore and Swanson. No way I'm letting my daughter make that walk.

To be perfectly clear- she would be going under Route 50- Carlin Springs goes under Route 50 and has wide sidewalks along this underpass-- not crossing it. Similar to how she is currently crossing 66.

Not the same at all. Right now our DH kids walk a block over Patrick Henry in our own neighborhood. From my house it's about a 5-6min walk. Instead option H would do one of three things. Get her up a lot earlier to catch a bus. Get her up a lot earlier to walk on a dark trail that I won't even run on alone in the dark. By the way, do a crime report run on the number of sexual assaults and robberies along the W&OD and Four Mile Run trails in the last few years and tell me you'd be comfortable with your prepubescent child walking there alone. Or, I drive her, thus contributing to all the traffic that the Carlin Springs neighborhood objected to with the idea of a high school there.

1.5mi walk zones are a joke. For many of us, our walk zone is under half a mile, and yes, the kids walk.
Want real diversity, start swapping kids between South Arlington and Williamsburg. Until then, if you have a school remaining under 10% FARMS in what you claim is a relatively small county, then this is lip service to diversity while sacrificing every other factor that APS claims it takes into consideration.

It's not lip service. Are the options perfect? No, but parents complained about the islands and APS listened and decided there will be no more islands or carve-outs, and the location of Stratford makes it really difficult to preserve diversity or increase it at Williamsburg.

Doing nothing because we can't do everything is just about the most pathetic argument I've heard. It's like gun nuts who insist we shouldn't regulate firearms because we'll never stop ALL criminals from gaining access to firearms.

I didn't say do nothing, my point is don't do something that isn't common sense and ignores every other factor. APS parents across the county have repeatedly said their #1 priority is neighborhood schools. Some of these options completely ignore the concept of even the most basic, smallest walk zone even if the community is against it, and it will cost a lot more money, and it impacts in a tremendous way the sleep of a lot more kids. Already too many kids are up and on a bus before 7am. There is no reason to make even more kids do this, and yes the numbers show that a few of these options do radically increase the number of bus riders, Financial costs in terms of acquiring and storing buses, not to mention cost of fuel and salaries, hasn't been factored in or published.


Look, I get that you don't want to be moved, but you're not being honest. None of the blended options completely ignore all the other priorities.

And I want to see the receipts about the number of overall walkers (percentage, not number, because as enrollment rises so do the number of kids needing transportation in the zones that are not walkable to anywhere) and the cost. The number of buses drivers/cost of fuel is going to increase with time and enrollment, but will this cause it to increase even more? I don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


I disagree. Scenarios that leave one school both with low farms levels and highly under-enrolled seem ridiculous, when we're given the chance to fix these issues.


PP here. I appreciate your point, and I'm pro-diversity and pro-doing something about the demographics. However, there are legitimate countervailing factors, not least of which is that many families, including in both the north and south, don't want to take a long bus ride to a school very far away (understanding that "very far" is a relative term in Arlington). I don't think all of that is racist subterfuge. People are allowed to make choices about where they live and are allowed to prefer neighborhood schools. People are allowed to not prioritize diversity, whatever that means, when it comes to their own families. I personally don't live in the Williamsburg zone on purpose and I'm not going to force my penchant for diversity down everyone's throats when there are legitimately held preferences on the other side. If there are reasonable ways to achieve some fairness, taking the county's housing/AH history as an unfortunate given, then that's what I personally am in favor of.


So how can we reasonably do this? Do any of the scenarios come close?


Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.


What school are you zoned for?

Gunston under 4/5 scenarios. TJ under one.

How do you meet someone on this board? I am in the same neighborhood as you and agree with your position. I'd love to meet.

[Anonymous]

Some of you guys posting here are just talking out of your asses and not looking at the map. We're talking about several Dominion Hills streets that are less than 1/2 mile from Swanson. If we want more diversity as a County, fine. Then lets break up the walk zones at all the middle schools. But this plan targets one walk zone at one middle school in one of the only areas in North Arlington that has welcomed affordable housing. But go ahead, peel off the walkers from that neighborhood. Meanwhile Williamsburg sits at 4% FARMS and only 93% utilization. You know who is pushing this plan the most? All those Nottingham and Discovery and Jamestown parents... sacrifice the Westover walkers and it makes South Arlington feel like the School Board has addressed "diversity"- meanwhile they get to keep their wall up around 22207.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
These maps with the #s are so much more helpful. I'm in South Arl, zoned for Gunston under almost any scenario. Based on these maps/numbers, H is my preference. Honestly, I don't care about Williamsburg and its numbers. They have their own issues. Let's just do the best with the situation we have in the south, which appears to me to be H.

A PP who pointed out that the Alignment map would crush Jefferson was right on - not only would it be over 50% FARMS, it would be the second most over-capacity in just a few more years. Not a good solution. Plus that Arl Heights area is already getting hosed in the HS debate.


I disagree. Scenarios that leave one school both with low farms levels and highly under-enrolled seem ridiculous, when we're given the chance to fix these issues.


PP here. I appreciate your point, and I'm pro-diversity and pro-doing something about the demographics. However, there are legitimate countervailing factors, not least of which is that many families, including in both the north and south, don't want to take a long bus ride to a school very far away (understanding that "very far" is a relative term in Arlington). I don't think all of that is racist subterfuge. People are allowed to make choices about where they live and are allowed to prefer neighborhood schools. People are allowed to not prioritize diversity, whatever that means, when it comes to their own families. I personally don't live in the Williamsburg zone on purpose and I'm not going to force my penchant for diversity down everyone's throats when there are legitimately held preferences on the other side. If there are reasonable ways to achieve some fairness, taking the county's housing/AH history as an unfortunate given, then that's what I personally am in favor of.


So how can we reasonably do this? Do any of the scenarios come close?


Like I said, I support H. It evens out Kenmore without overburdening either TJ or Gunston. My conclusion from comparing all the maps is that fr/l rates are projected to rise in the south overall. That is a function of geography and of non-school policy choices made years before. This looks to me like the best we can do without some artificial island. It is certainly the best we can do of the proposals on the table. Whether the SB will swoop in with some made-up hybrid option at the last minute is a different story, of course.

H isn't without real costs - see the Swanson parent poster, who I genuinely feel for. I don't have a middle schooler so I can't say that this is a small thing to that small group of families. We aren't in the walk zone for any school, in fact. On balance, I'd vote to sacrifice the interests of that small group in walking in favor of what I believe to be best for about half the county's students. Not to say it's a free choice though.


What school are you zoned for?

Gunston under 4/5 scenarios. TJ under one.

How do you meet someone on this board? I am in the same neighborhood as you and agree with your position. I'd love to meet.

Ha! Well I don't know, I've never done it. Send a burner email address, I suppose.