Down and Out on $250K/year....

[Anonymous]

We are HHI $450k. We definitely do not have $ concerns--more of where should we invest,etc.

We also don't own all the brands the other posters mentioned. Our cars are Hondas--7+ years old.

No retirement or college tuition worries.

We are definitely savers not spenders.

Our biggest splurge is vacations.

My regular shopping is at Whole Foods- mainly because it's 2 blocks away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you want the generic "american dream" in the DC area 250K isn't enough let alone be "rich". Rich in IMO is exceeding the american dream and having money to spend on extra things like a vacation house, extravagent international family vacations, first class airplane tickets for your whole family and still exceed the "american dream" standard.

The generic american dream IMO is the following:

3000 SQRFT Newer House (less than 10 years old) In a Good neighborhood (Mclean, Vienna, Bethesda etc...), WITHOUT previous housing appreciation as a downpayment (starting fresh)

NOT private school (because you are in the above neighborhood)

Pay for Health Insurance, Utilities / Gas / Food, going out to eat on the weekends, weekend activities

Save and later pay for your 2.5 kid's 4 year colleges

2 $40K cars (payment meaning 2-3 years old)

Someone to cut lawn

Someone to clean your house

If you are younger, childcare for your 2.5 kids

After school activities

Car for your teenagers

Retain your same lifestyle in retirement minus a house payment (assuming you pay your house off)

That is is the American fantasy not the American dream.

No, I agree with the first PP. That is an example of the upper middle class American Dream... plenty of people able to do this in Dallas or Atlanta etc. for probably a bit more than 100-150K a year, but not easily possible in NYC, SF, DC, unless you have way more income/resources.

[Anonymous]

The American Dream is having a paid off home before retirement, being able to afford all utilities, having a reliable car, buying what you want at the grocery store, have decent health or the money for healthcare, seeing your kids have the same for themselves.

It is not about how much you make, how big your house is, vacations, house help or driving a high end car.

Financial security means more than your social status.

My personal dream is to live on 20 acres in the middle of no where. Once I achieve that, I can die happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you want the generic "american dream" in the DC area 250K isn't enough let alone be "rich". Rich in IMO is exceeding the american dream and having money to spend on extra things like a vacation house, extravagent international family vacations, first class airplane tickets for your whole family and still exceed the "american dream" standard.

The generic american dream IMO is the following:

3000 SQRFT Newer House (less than 10 years old) In a Good neighborhood (Mclean, Vienna, Bethesda etc...), WITHOUT previous housing appreciation as a downpayment (starting fresh)

NOT private school (because you are in the above neighborhood)

Pay for Health Insurance, Utilities / Gas / Food, going out to eat on the weekends, weekend activities

Save and later pay for your 2.5 kid's 4 year colleges

2 $40K cars (payment meaning 2-3 years old)

Someone to cut lawn

Someone to clean your house

If you are younger, childcare for your 2.5 kids

After school activities

Car for your teenagers

Retain your same lifestyle in retirement minus a house payment (assuming you pay your house off)

That is is the American fantasy not the American dream.

No, I agree with the first PP. That is an example of the upper middle class American Dream... plenty of people able to do this in Dallas or Atlanta etc. for probably a bit more than 100-150K a year, but not easily possible in NYC, SF, DC, unless you have way more income/resources.

We have all of this on $250k/year with the only exception being we live in Loudoun and DH has a 15 minute commute to his job in Reston. It's fairly typical out here, with short commutes, but haters gonna hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:To say $250K a year anywhere is rich is ridiculous. It's upper middle class salary, not wealth, not rich. DH and I make this now living in DC. With private school tuition plus nanny plus mortgage and insurances plus healthcare there isn't much left.

Oh please cry me a river would you???!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People forget that this generation doesn't have pensions so a lot of money must go to 401k and retirement. That cuts out at least 50 k right there, couple that with college savings and childcare it eats a ton of your money.

+1 and all of the above extra costs are much higher in DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:if you want the generic "american dream" in the DC area 250K isn't enough let alone be "rich". Rich in IMO is exceeding the american dream and having money to spend on extra things like a vacation house, extravagent international family vacations, first class airplane tickets for your whole family and still exceed the "american dream" standard.

The generic american dream IMO is the following:

3000 SQRFT Newer House (less than 10 years old) In a Good neighborhood (Mclean, Vienna, Bethesda etc...), WITHOUT previous housing appreciation as a downpayment (starting fresh)

NOT private school (because you are in the above neighborhood)

Pay for Health Insurance, Utilities / Gas / Food, going out to eat on the weekends, weekend activities

Save and later pay for your 2.5 kid's 4 year colleges

2 $40K cars (payment meaning 2-3 years old)

Someone to cut lawn

Someone to clean your house

If you are younger, childcare for your 2.5 kids

After school activities

Car for your teenagers

Retain your same lifestyle in retirement minus a house payment (assuming you pay your house off)

That is is the American fantasy not the American dream.

No, I agree with the first PP. That is an example of the upper middle class American Dream... plenty of people able to do this in Dallas or Atlanta etc. for probably a bit more than 100-150K a year, but not easily possible in NYC, SF, DC, unless you have way more income/resources.

We have all of this on $250k/year with the only exception being we live in Loudoun and DH has a 15 minute commute to his job in Reston. It's fairly typical out here, with short commutes, but haters gonna hate.

And when DH next job is moved to Alexandria? We knew many folks commuting to Loudoun from Rockville b/c their company relocated. Being centrally located insures against this risk.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you can't "make ends meet" on $250K, you're doing something wrong. I don't care where you live.

Seriously.

Not true. In most cases, these people are saving money, which makes it feel tight on a day to day basis. Sure, saving for retirement, college, emergencies, etc. Is a luxury. But the end result is that 250k doesn't mean you're living a luxurious life, just hopefully that you have the luxury of some financial security. I know that's nothing to complain about, but it's not Gucci bags and summering in the Hamptons (or even living in some of the tonier neighborhoods around here).

It's seriously crazy IMO that saving for retirement, college, and emergencies is considered a luxury. I mean I agree with you but I think it's insane that we live this way now.

[Anonymous]

No, I agree with the first PP. That is an example of the upper middle class American Dream... plenty of people able to do this in Dallas or Atlanta etc. for probably a bit more than 100-150K a year, but not easily possible in NYC, SF, DC, unless you have way more income/resources.

I have lived in Texas. That's true that the cost of living is lower, but typically salaries are commensurate with the cost of living in the area. While there are certainly plenty of uber wealthy people in Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc. who skew the distribution, on average there are a lot fewer 250K+ jobs in Texas than there are in DC, SF, NYC, etc.

Also in Texas, there really are not a lot of "close in" areas that are affordable in the big cities, like anywhere else. Texas is highway land, and those 3,000+ square feet houses that are affordable are typically NOT in areas where you have a quick commute to the city center.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People forget that this generation doesn't have pensions so a lot of money must go to 401k and retirement. That cuts out at least 50 k right there, couple that with college savings and childcare it eats a ton of your money.

+1 and all of the above extra costs are much higher in DC

And most of those costs are made up in higher incomes. The job I have now pays 80K a year. I looked at similar jobs in Texas when we considered moving there. They maxed out at 55K. I was looking because my husband company wanted to transfer him, but that would mean a paycut from 120K to 90K. We decided to stay put.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People forget that this generation doesn't have pensions so a lot of money must go to 401k and retirement. That cuts out at least 50 k right there, couple that with college savings and childcare it eats a ton of your money.

This is true. My parents are retired and in their early fifties. They're living on a pension of around ~ 80 k (plus some savings). With any luck, they'll live for another 30-40 years. It's unfortunate, but it's not sustainable for everyone to have a pension like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No, I agree with the first PP. That is an example of the upper middle class American Dream... plenty of people able to do this in Dallas or Atlanta etc. for probably a bit more than 100-150K a year, but not easily possible in NYC, SF, DC, unless you have way more income/resources.

I have lived in Texas. That's true that the cost of living is lower, but typically salaries are commensurate with the cost of living in the area. While there are certainly plenty of uber wealthy people in Dallas, Houston, Atlanta, etc. who skew the distribution, on average there are a lot fewer 250K+ jobs in Texas than there are in DC, SF, NYC, etc.

Also in Texas, there really are not a lot of "close in" areas that are affordable in the big cities, like anywhere else. Texas is highway land, and those 3,000+ square feet houses that are affordable are typically NOT in areas where you have a quick commute to the city center.

So weird. I must have been posting about Texas at the same time as you PP. You are spot on. We looked at real estate in Alamo Heights, close in San Antonio. Houses were any where from 500K-1M+. To get the big house, we had to go WAY to the butt ends of the city and look at least a 45 minute commute. And salaries sucked compared to here while housing was similar.

People are so deluded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People forget that this generation doesn't have pensions so a lot of money must go to 401k and retirement. That cuts out at least 50 k right there, couple that with college savings and childcare it eats a ton of your money.

The irony is so thick here. College savings and maxed out retirements, as well as high quality childcare ARE luxuries in this country. That shouldn't be so, but it is. Good lord people. Get the heck out of your bubbles.

[Anonymous]

What sickens me is that we save a ton for college while another family doesn't. The savers end up paying full price while the non savers get a huge subsidy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What sickens me is that we save a ton for college while another family doesn't. The savers end up paying full price while the non savers get a huge subsidy.

+ 1