How is the elimination of APs going for your DC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are the equivalent of an online course from University of Phoenix.

The anti-AP crowd is the weirdest group of people I’ve seen on DCUM since the virulent anti-redshirters.

Not at all. People are just pointing out that AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep, that is sold by a for profit company that controls the public high school curriculum.

And their imperviousness to the more detailed counterpoints that there is no such thing as “AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep” because the curriculum is more open and teacher-dependent than that, and that the units of what is to be learned track closely to college intro classes in many cases, is what makes them exactly like the weird anti-redshirters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are the equivalent of an online course from University of Phoenix.

The anti-AP crowd is the weirdest group of people I’ve seen on DCUM since the virulent anti-redshirters.

Not at all. People are just pointing out that AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep, that is sold by a for profit company that controls the public high school curriculum.

And their imperviousness to the more detailed counterpoints that there is no such thing as “AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep” because the curriculum is more open and teacher-dependent than that, and that the units of what is to be learned track closely to college intro classes in many cases, is what makes them exactly like the weird anti-redshirters.

Exactly. I personally took AP courses at an elite private school that later dropped them. I know, because I was there, that elite private schools are perfectly capable of offering AP courses that cover the AP curriculum, without being focused on test prep, while also incorporating original research, extensive writing, and robust class discussion.

This insistence that my same teachers, who are still teaching the same subjects at the same school, suddenly became incapable of doing something they had been doing successfully for decades, strikes me as detached from reality. Was there a sudden epidemic of incompetence among veteran teachers at elite private schools? More likely that the students weaker today than in my day, or the younger teachers are less skilled.

And more likely than any of that, in my opinion, is that elite private schools realized it would be easier to get athletes and donor-class/celebrity kids into top schools if the high school didn’t offer APs. Have a top academic student? Tell the college they took your most rigorous courses. Have a hooked kid who did not take your most rigorous courses? Say, “oh, he didn’t take APs because we don’t offer APs.” With the development office and/or coach at the table, no one will be interested in hearing the details of your school’s idiosyncratic curriculum in order to understand that the child actually took a less challenging course load.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AP classes are the equivalent of an online course from University of Phoenix.

The anti-AP crowd is the weirdest group of people I’ve seen on DCUM since the virulent anti-redshirters.

Not at all. People are just pointing out that AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep, that is sold by a for profit company that controls the public high school curriculum.

And their imperviousness to the more detailed counterpoints that there is no such thing as “AP is a high school level class, focused on test prep” because the curriculum is more open and teacher-dependent than that, and that the units of what is to be learned track closely to college intro classes in many cases, is what makes them exactly like the weird anti-redshirters.

Exactly. I personally took AP courses at an elite private school that later dropped them. I know, because I was there, that elite private schools are perfectly capable of offering AP courses that cover the AP curriculum, without being focused on test prep, while also incorporating original research, extensive writing, and robust class discussion.

This insistence that my same teachers, who are still teaching the same subjects at the same school, suddenly became incapable of doing something they had been doing successfully for decades, strikes me as detached from reality. Was there a sudden epidemic of incompetence among veteran teachers at elite private schools? More likely that the students weaker today than in my day, or the younger teachers are less skilled.

And more likely than any of that, in my opinion, is that elite private schools realized it would be easier to get athletes and donor-class/celebrity kids into top schools if the high school didn’t offer APs. Have a top academic student? Tell the college they took your most rigorous courses. Have a hooked kid who did not take your most rigorous courses? Say, “oh, he didn’t take APs because we don’t offer APs.” With the development office and/or coach at the table, no one will be interested in hearing the details of your school’s idiosyncratic curriculum in order to understand that the child actually took a less challenging course load.

You make too much sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, hurt. DS is at a UC school with a stem major. While most kids used AP credit to get out of lower level courses, and required courses outside their major, DS had to take them. He feels very behind.

Thanks for sharing this. It’s useful for understanding how AP course credit can be useful once a student is in college. I’ll be encouraging my kids to take certain AP exams for this reason. If my children do not get a 4 or 5, they don’t have to report it. So there is no reason to not take the exams.

[Anonymous]

It is more about having to teach to maximize AP exam scores, which is an AP class, or to teach the material that teachers think is important, which is non-AP. Different approaches with some overlap.

Ultimately for an AP class you are judged based on AP exam scores more than anything else, so that becomes all that matters.

[Anonymous]

How many standardized tests do kids need to take these days? Beyond SAT and ACT, if every junior and senior level class has an AP exam, we are easily talking 12 AP exams, where scores are expected. It becomes a bit much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How many standardized tests do kids need to take these days? Beyond SAT and ACT, if every junior and senior level class has an AP exam, we are easily talking 12 AP exams, where scores are expected. It becomes a bit much.

The whole goal is to go to college, right? At most colleges, most kids have 4-6 exams per semester. So I’m not sure why it would be unreasonable to take 3-5 AP exams the spring of junior year. (Senior year AP exams come after admissions is done; they only count for credit, or if you’re applying to certain international schools.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sucks.

We are getting killed by publics on college admissions. Might as well give up on T20.

This.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s a positive. AP courses are seen as woke by the new administration. Better to not take them.

I mean have you seen the course content of AP classes lately?
It’s definitely super-left leaning across all disciplines.
And since the test is standardized, teaching a course that adheres to the approved content is non-negotiable.

Private high schools whose values do not align with this prescribed ideaology have a greater purpose that they need to consider.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It is more about having to teach to maximize AP exam scores, which is an AP class, or to teach the material that teachers think is important, which is non-AP. Different approaches with some overlap.

Ultimately for an AP class you are judged based on AP exam scores more than anything else, so that becomes all that matters.

I agree that it’s about schools not wanting to have to maximize AP scores. Back in the day a B was good enough, and so was a 4, but now elite colleges expect an A and a 5.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:Public high school counselor here- why are some privates doing away with APs? I don’t understand.
Other than the fact that college board is making a killing with all of the test administrations.

Private schools need to be able to say they are offering something more or more rigorous than high achieving publics. Privates want to tout the freedom to create deeper curricula when it freed from the AP label, and while that may be true, the need to distinguish is what drives those decisions. Why pay $30k+ to take the same classes and matriculate to the same colleges as a public school student. As noted by a PP, APs are still coin of the realm in college admissions. Having a full suite of those course offerings was not hurting private school kids’ options any more than those courses being described as honors would now.

This is partly true, however a really top notch private school with small classes of highly motivated students and teachers with advanced degrees in the subject area can certainly offer classes that more closely resemble the courses taught at the college level. Particularly in the humanities, AP courses do not give students a true seminar, college-level experience. Independent schools can instead offer Advanced courses that are described to colleges on their school profiles.

You can also do that with a course approved as AP. So that's not the answer to why some schools dropped it.

Perhaps the company that runs AP is trash and has no business controlling high school education?

I too think college board is awful. But that’s not why privates are dropping them. I would take several tests at least anyway if it were my kid. If your kid can’t score 4 in a few APs like US or world history after a 100k investment you really didn’t get your moneys worth unless some learning disabilities involved.

Anything less than a 5 would be surprising from at least a semi-decent private.

That's silly.

Actually quite accurate. My kid and their friends have only received 5s if they took an overlapping course. One 4 occurred after just 2 days of studying and no class.

That’s lovely for your children and their friends. But the comment was not about your children and their friends. The comment was that “Anything less than a 5 would be surprising from at least a semi-decent private.” That claim is inconsistent with the Phillips Exeter school profile, https://exeter.edu/app/uploads/2024/10/2024-25_PEA_College_Profile.pdf, which states that a quarter of students who attempt APs have an average score of 3 or less. (I trust we can all agree that Phillips Exeter is “at least semi-decent.”)

Why look at broad data directly from the source when you can make a poor generalization based on a handful of examples though?

I'm going to strongly agree that it would be surprising for students at a decent private school to get less than a 5 on APs if they took the course.

Ah, but the point is that the private schools don’t teach AP courses. So the kids who take the exams and do well get all the credit, while the kids who take the exams and do poorly have a ready-made excuse.

It would be like taking an AP Econ exam without taking an Economics class.

Kids at decent private schools get 5s when the coursework is there.

One example is my kid took the AP physics exam without a corresponding physics course and scored a 5. Usually kids can score at least a 3 without taking a related class.

This is pretty strong evidence that AP is a worthless program.

This is one anonymous comment on the internet. It’s not evidence of anything.

Your local public school is the crime scene if you want more evidence.

Lol another comment that makes no sense.

Some of you need to be attending school in place of your kids.

The worthlessness of the AP program is on display at public high schools across the country. It appeals to low achieving and low effort people.

I wonder how different APs are from A-levels in the UK. Same standardization, but they certainly don’t draw comments like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many standardized tests do kids need to take these days? Beyond SAT and ACT, if every junior and senior level class has an AP exam, we are easily talking 12 AP exams, where scores are expected. It becomes a bit much.

The whole goal is to go to college, right? At most colleges, most kids have 4-6 exams per semester. So I’m not sure why it would be unreasonable to take 3-5 AP exams the spring of junior year. (Senior year AP exams come after admissions is done; they only count for credit, or if you’re applying to certain international schools.)

It’s not unreasonable, which is why most kids do it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a positive. AP courses are seen as woke by the new administration. Better to not take them.

I mean have you seen the course content of AP classes lately?
It’s definitely super-left leaning across all disciplines.
And since the test is standardized, teaching a course that adheres to the approved content is non-negotiable.

Private high schools whose values do not align with this prescribed ideaology have a greater purpose that they need to consider.

Please explain how an AP Calculus test or AP Physics test can be left-leaning.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a positive. AP courses are seen as woke by the new administration. Better to not take them.

I mean have you seen the course content of AP classes lately?
It’s definitely super-left leaning across all disciplines.
And since the test is standardized, teaching a course that adheres to the approved content is non-negotiable.

Private high schools whose values do not align with this prescribed ideaology have a greater purpose that they need to consider.

Please explain how an AP Calculus test or AP Physics test can be left-leaning.

In a workers’ cooperative-owned warehouse, a group of unionized workers use a pulley system to lift crates of food being distributed as part of a mutual aid effort in a low-income neighborhood disproportionately impacted by climate change and food deserts.

Each crate has a mass of 25 kg and is lifted vertically at a constant speed by a system powered by a manually cranked generator operated in shifts by volunteers. The pulley system has an efficiency of 75% due to friction in the gears and ropes.

(a) How much work must be done by the volunteers to raise one crate to a height of 5 meters?

(b) What is the minimum mechanical energy input (from the volunteers) required per crate, accounting for the pulley efficiency?

(c) If each volunteer can sustain a mechanical power output of 150 watts for short periods, how long does it take one volunteer to lift a crate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s a positive. AP courses are seen as woke by the new administration. Better to not take them.

I mean have you seen the course content of AP classes lately?
It’s definitely super-left leaning across all disciplines.
And since the test is standardized, teaching a course that adheres to the approved content is non-negotiable.

Private high schools whose values do not align with this prescribed ideaology have a greater purpose that they need to consider.

Please explain how an AP Calculus test or AP Physics test can be left-leaning.

In a workers’ cooperative-owned warehouse, a group of unionized workers use a pulley system to lift crates of food being distributed as part of a mutual aid effort in a low-income neighborhood disproportionately impacted by climate change and food deserts.

Each crate has a mass of 25 kg and is lifted vertically at a constant speed by a system powered by a manually cranked generator operated in shifts by volunteers. The pulley system has an efficiency of 75% due to friction in the gears and ropes.

(a) How much work must be done by the volunteers to raise one crate to a height of 5 meters?

(b) What is the minimum mechanical energy input (from the volunteers) required per crate, accounting for the pulley efficiency?

(c) If each volunteer can sustain a mechanical power output of 150 watts for short periods, how long does it take one volunteer to lift a crate?

OK? How does that impact learning AP Calc or Phys? The students are already smart enough (more than you apparently!) to focus on the key details to answer the question.