DC NMSFs 2025

[Anonymous]

PP and to add if DCPS just gave the top 150 scores on a system wide test a spot at Walls you’d still have lots of kids who are advanced not admitted. You also have private school kids, charters, etc. There are lots of advanced kids in DC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:PP and to add if DCPS just gave the top 150 scores on a system wide test a spot at Walls you’d still have lots of kids who are advanced not admitted. You also have private school kids, charters, etc. There are lots of advanced kids in DC.

There are lots and lots of advanced kids in DC, which is why it's too bad that DCPS considers them a non-priority.

[Anonymous]

The assertion that there are so many advanced kids in DC that we can't find all of them a slot at a school where there's a significant cohort of kids at or above grade level does not make any mathematical sense. If there are that many of them, make a school for it, the way there's currently a school for 400 kids, the vast majority are below grade level, where DCPS pretends they're doing college-level work. And if DCPS starts getting kids who enter the system from private school -- oh no, what a problem, whatever shall we do.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are not enough seats at the selective schools for all of the advanced students in the city. DCPS clearly has no intention of finding any kind of solution to this. They’ve pretty much washed their hands of it. So, families have to find a work around, either getting into the selective schools, which involves an element of luck; going private; or moving. And some kids can make some comprehensive schools work, too, if they are self-disciplined and willing to seek out opportunities there.

Lots of kids at selective admissions schools and programs aren't even at grade level. DCPS could easily guarantee a spot for every kid who is actually advanced. That they're definitely not is a separate issue -- but they could.

How do you know tihs? Have you ever even set foot in one? Talked to a teacher?

How do you *not* know this?

Seriously, you're going on stereotypes. The selective schools test well compared to the non-selective schools.

I'm not remotely. I think it's great that McKinley Tech exists, but the median kid takes algebra freshman year and then is getting 3s in math, and then gets an SAT score that's not "advanced". Then there are programs like the early college academy where 4% of the kids are testing proficient in math. It's just not the case that there aren't enough slots for every kid who is, say, taking and passing geometry or algebra 2 in eighth grade or comparably ahead in English, especially since many of them prefer JR or a charter. There's just not a desire to meet that need.

Again, show your math, please. If you want to prove you point, prove it with numbers, not just some magical imagined "median kid." Over and over again it is assumed on this forum that any predominantly black school is inherently inferior.

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are capable of looking at the school level PARCC data and seeing that almost all of the students at McKinley tech start in algebra and that the median math score is 3. That's not the case at Banneker, it is the case at McKinley, because I'm talking about the numbers, not the race of the student body. You can also look at Bard High School Early College, where 4% of the kids test proficient in math. It's not getting aggregated into another school. This is a selective admissions high school.

If DC wanted to have ONE program that you were guaranteed to get into if you were actually advanced, they could very much do that, just as they choose to serve other student populations. They have chosen not to.

There isn’t a single school district in the entire US that offers this. Not one.

The selective high school exam is the sole criteria for admissions for Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech, and Bronx Science, so if you score at the top, you are guaranteed admissions.

In Chicago, the selective admissions high schools are not purely test in, but it's a significant component.

In DC, you can be that same kid and get into no high school which has even a significant cohort of at-grade-level students. That's a choice.

What you’re missing here is that the kids PPs are talking about almost certainly wouldn’t get into Stuy either. There’s a tiny number of slots vs the number of smart kids. Parents in NYC all sweat it exactly the same as here.

This is just a stupid argument. We're not asking for a guaranteed spot but a process based on any degree of meritocracy.

Whatever you’re asking for, the PP is literally asking for a guaranteed spot and lauding the NYC system because it provides guaranteed spots to the highest scorers. And the current process for admissions at Walls is indisputably based on some degree of merit, because 7th grade GPA is a measure of merit. The fact is that there are more high-GPA 7th graders than there are seats at Walls, so there’s also a degree of uncertainty. But a test-in school would mean even more A students are left out, because high-scoring B students (like my kid) would take up some of the seats. One reason the current process is reasonably popular IRL, however DCUM feels about it, is that many parents believe their lower-scoring A student is more deserving than my higher-scoring B student.

It's hard/impossible to make the comparison based on grades, especially with the disparity of the rigor offered at different DCPS middles. An aptitude test would allow for an apples to apples comparison.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The assertion that there are so many advanced kids in DC that we can't find all of them a slot at a school where there's a significant cohort of kids at or above grade level does not make any mathematical sense. If there are that many of them, make a school for it, the way there's currently a school for 400 kids, the vast majority are below grade level, where DCPS pretends they're doing college-level work. And if DCPS starts getting kids who enter the system from private school -- oh no, what a problem, whatever shall we do.

the assertion is that in a large urban school district, you’re fooling yourself if you believe your child is entitled to a homogeneous “cohort.” You chose to live in a economically and racially diverse city and no, the school system is not going to create a bespoke HS for your kid. Some urban school districts have extremely selective schools (eg stuy) but they select a VERY small number and leave behing a huge number of bright and hardworking kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

There is absolutely no ethical issue with this, because it actually was the system in DC for Walls for many, many years, until the pandemic! It's so weird to me that the city hasn't corrected this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The assertion that there are so many advanced kids in DC that we can't find all of them a slot at a school where there's a significant cohort of kids at or above grade level does not make any mathematical sense. If there are that many of them, make a school for it, the way there's currently a school for 400 kids, the vast majority are below grade level, where DCPS pretends they're doing college-level work. And if DCPS starts getting kids who enter the system from private school -- oh no, what a problem, whatever shall we do.

the assertion is that in a large urban school district, you’re fooling yourself if you believe your child is entitled to a homogeneous “cohort.” You chose to live in an economically and racially diverse city and no, the school system is not going to create a bespoke HS for your kid. Some urban school districts have extremely selective schools (eg stuy) but they select a VERY small number and leave behing a huge number of bright and hardworking kids.

Be nice to have that option in DC though!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The assertion that there are so many advanced kids in DC that we can't find all of them a slot at a school where there's a significant cohort of kids at or above grade level does not make any mathematical sense. If there are that many of them, make a school for it, the way there's currently a school for 400 kids, the vast majority are below grade level, where DCPS pretends they're doing college-level work. And if DCPS starts getting kids who enter the system from private school -- oh no, what a problem, whatever shall we do.

the assertion is that in a large urban school district, you’re fooling yourself if you believe your child is entitled to a homogeneous “cohort.” You chose to live in an economically and racially diverse city and no, the school system is not going to create a bespoke HS for your kid. Some urban school districts have extremely selective schools (eg stuy) but they select a VERY small number and leave behing a huge number of bright and hardworking kids.

The assertion is that DC doesn’t have an extremely selective public school that selects a very small number of students with the highest aptitude, regardless of their race or SES/HHI. Yes, it won’t be available to many bright kids. But now it isn’t available to anyone, unlike some urban school districts. Why not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

There is absolutely no ethical issue with this, because it actually was the system in DC for Walls for many, many years, until the pandemic! It's so weird to me that the city hasn't corrected this.

What is the right person/entity to contact to express this view? Is it DME? The chancellor? I confess I don't really understand how DCPS is governed.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:There are not enough seats at the selective schools for all of the advanced students in the city. DCPS clearly has no intention of finding any kind of solution to this. They’ve pretty much washed their hands of it. So, families have to find a work around, either getting into the selective schools, which involves an element of luck; going private; or moving. And some kids can make some comprehensive schools work, too, if they are self-disciplined and willing to seek out opportunities there.

Lots of kids at selective admissions schools and programs aren't even at grade level. DCPS could easily guarantee a spot for every kid who is actually advanced. That they're definitely not is a separate issue -- but they could.

How do you know tihs? Have you ever even set foot in one? Talked to a teacher?

How do you *not* know this?

Seriously, you're going on stereotypes. The selective schools test well compared to the non-selective schools.

I'm not remotely. I think it's great that McKinley Tech exists, but the median kid takes algebra freshman year and then is getting 3s in math, and then gets an SAT score that's not "advanced". Then there are programs like the early college academy where 4% of the kids are testing proficient in math. It's just not the case that there aren't enough slots for every kid who is, say, taking and passing geometry or algebra 2 in eighth grade or comparably ahead in English, especially since many of them prefer JR or a charter. There's just not a desire to meet that need.

Again, show your math, please. If you want to prove you point, prove it with numbers, not just some magical imagined "median kid." Over and over again it is assumed on this forum that any predominantly black school is inherently inferior.

What in the world are you talking about? I assume you are capable of looking at the school level PARCC data and seeing that almost all of the students at McKinley tech start in algebra and that the median math score is 3. That's not the case at Banneker, it is the case at McKinley, because I'm talking about the numbers, not the race of the student body. You can also look at Bard High School Early College, where 4% of the kids test proficient in math. It's not getting aggregated into another school. This is a selective admissions high school.

If DC wanted to have ONE program that you were guaranteed to get into if you were actually advanced, they could very much do that, just as they choose to serve other student populations. They have chosen not to.

There isn’t a single school district in the entire US that offers this. Not one.

The selective high school exam is the sole criteria for admissions for Stuyvesant, Brooklyn Tech, and Bronx Science, so if you score at the top, you are guaranteed admissions.

In Chicago, the selective admissions high schools are not purely test in, but it's a significant component.

In DC, you can be that same kid and get into no high school which has even a significant cohort of at-grade-level students. That's a choice.

What you’re missing here is that the kids PPs are talking about almost certainly wouldn’t get into Stuy either. There’s a tiny number of slots vs the number of smart kids. Parents in NYC all sweat it exactly the same as here.

This is just a stupid argument. We're not asking for a guaranteed spot but a process based on any degree of meritocracy.

Whatever you’re asking for, the PP is literally asking for a guaranteed spot and lauding the NYC system because it provides guaranteed spots to the highest scorers. And the current process for admissions at Walls is indisputably based on some degree of merit, because 7th grade GPA is a measure of merit. The fact is that there are more high-GPA 7th graders than there are seats at Walls, so there’s also a degree of uncertainty. But a test-in school would mean even more A students are left out, because high-scoring B students (like my kid) would take up some of the seats. One reason the current process is reasonably popular IRL, however DCUM feels about it, is that many parents believe their lower-scoring A student is more deserving than my higher-scoring B student.

No, because grades would likely also matter, so they would let in the high scoring A students. There are so few seats at Walls, they can fill it with this group.

Right now, there is a large pool of A students -- some from easy A schools and some from challenging schools. Right now they have no clue who the high scoring kids are, so some high scoring A students are losing out to low scoring A students. Adding a test would help to divide up that group and find the truly top students.

Obviously a system designed for your personal convenience would do that. But where is the urban American school system that looks at grades and scores and nothing else? The NYC system being held up as a model does not consider grades.

Lowell in San Francisco (arguably the most similar city to DC). Look at the criteria -- grades and test and essay.

https://www.sfusd.edu/schools/enroll/apply/applying-lowell-high-school

But it’s not just grades and test scores. It’s also a bunch of non-academic factors, including demonstrated ability to overcome hardship and attendance at an underrepresented middle school.

SF is very clear about the percentage they accept from underrepresented middle schools, and those kids have to submit grades and take the test, too.

Again, it's very weird how DC operates its application schools -- much more opaque than in other cities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

There is absolutely no ethical issue with this, because it actually was the system in DC for Walls for many, many years, until the pandemic! It's so weird to me that the city hasn't corrected this.

What is the right person/entity to contact to express this view? Is it DME? The chancellor? I confess I don't really understand how DCPS is governed.

I don’t have any personal knowledge, but what I’ve gleaned from DCUM was that the former test was used to identify a pool which was then selected by interview. I don’t think that was much more selective than the current process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

No one on this board is afraid of a standardized test. You are having a straw man argument.

Someone in DC government decided not to bring it back. We don't know why. But I would love to hear why as well as a justification as to why.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

There is absolutely no ethical issue with this, because it actually was the system in DC for Walls for many, many years, until the pandemic! It's so weird to me that the city hasn't corrected this.

What is the right person/entity to contact to express this view? Is it DME? The chancellor? I confess I don't really understand how DCPS is governed.

I don’t have any personal knowledge, but what I’ve gleaned from DCUM was that the former test was used to identify a pool which was then selected by interview. I don’t think that was much more selective than the current process.

It has become quite a bit more selective because the number of qualified students who apply has increased as the number of DC students who stay through middle school and apply or lottery for public high schools increases.

If I wanted to know more about these processes I would go to my council on education and ask there. Possibly have a meeting or ask questions of my council member (acknowledging that the Mayor's office and the Mayor's office alone has governance over the running of DCPS) and take it from there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What would be the issue with a system that combines grades and a test score as elements of admission? Wouldn’t that be most effective in identifying the top students?

Why are people afraid of a standardized test?

There is absolutely no ethical issue with this, because it actually was the system in DC for Walls for many, many years, until the pandemic! It's so weird to me that the city hasn't corrected this.

What is the right person/entity to contact to express this view? Is it DME? The chancellor? I confess I don't really understand how DCPS is governed.

I don’t have any personal knowledge, but what I’ve gleaned from DCUM was that the former test was used to identify a pool which was then selected by interview. I don’t think that was much more selective than the current process.

It has become quite a bit more selective because the number of qualified students who apply has increased as the number of DC students who stay through middle school and apply or lottery for public high schools increases.

If I wanted to know more about these processes I would go to my council on education and ask there. Possibly have a meeting or ask questions of my council member (acknowledging that the Mayor's office and the Mayor's office alone has governance over the running of DCPS) and take it from there.

Is there a committee on education these days? I thought it was folded into the committee of the whole?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Public:

Walls (6)
BASIS (3)
Latin (2)
DCI (2)
J-R (1)

Private:

Sidwell (11)
GDS (7)
STA (6)
NCS (3)
WIS (2)
SJC (2)
Maret (1)
Field (1)
Gonzaga (1)

JR is huge and lots more students than the other 4 schools above them and only had 1. i would have expected better.

JR sucks. Very little to no learning going on.

Untrue.