Why apply to an Oberlin/Kenyon/Grinnell
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Anonymous
Words can have different meanings. Is privilege a "good thing" when we use it the way it is most often used now? I speak of the omnipresent "white privilege." |
Anonymous
I guess it partly depends on whether you or your children have privilege (in which case you might see it as a good thing) or not (in which case you might see it as a bad thing). Privilege means that American society is not a perfect meritocracy. The U.S., once considered the land of opportunity, now offers less upward mobility than many European nations. It's not just about wealth. Kids from poor homes are privileged if they have supportive, involved parents who encourage them to get good grades in high school and to aspire to college and who help them negotiate financial aid, the common app, etc. Rich parents may be unprepared to assist their children with college and may even have pathologies that lead them to sabotage their children's educational opportunities. My relatively wealthy parents tried to bill me for expenses like the food and toothpaste I used from birth to 18. None of us assumed they would help me with college. Most of the kids who go to schools like the ones we're discussing here have at least one dedicated parent who takes them college shopping, agonizes over the quality of their college experience, pays or helps pay for them to take ACTs/SATs, helps organize transport to and from college, and pays for at least some of their tuition, room, and board. Some or all of these things are not available to many kids. Once students are at these expensive and high-quality SLACs, they are further advantaged by small classes, the nurture that comes with the SLAC experience, and the degree itself. I don't see how one can not consider such students privileged. |
Anonymous
I don't like the term because I think it carries negative connotations nowadays and a sense that the child isn't really entitled to the various advantages in life he or she may have received, whether by virtue of genetics or socio-economic status. It reinforces the prevailing Marxist mentality that everyone should be on equal footing and if they aren't, some kind of injustice is at work. A kid can be lucky that he or she is smart, good looking, tall, athletic, rich... but to apply the term "privilege" is to attach a moral valence to these qualities that I find objectionable and dangerous. Not to mention, in almost all cases, kids at these schools WORKED THEIR ASSES OFF to get in and have these opportunities. Half of them are on need based aid. Many received merit scholarships. Many got recruited for being among the best athletes in the country. They are fortunate but to call them privileged is to undermine their achievements and to suggest their success is unearned and illegitimate. A king is anointed by virtue of royal privilege. A president is inaugurated because he earned the support of the people. |
Anonymous
I do not consider those kids privileged. It’s not a privilege if a child receives the love and care that a good parent provides. That’s just what all parents should do to the best of their ability. Least of all is it a privilege in the sense that the word is often used today, ie an unearned benefit beyond the reach of those in some restricted group. Every parent has the opportunity, and indeed the obligation, to be a good parent and help their kids as best they can. |
Anonymous
Whether it carries negative connotations or not is not really relevant to the fact that privilege and lack of privilege exist. Whether there is moral valence attached or whether you frame the issue in terms of injustice or Marxism is a separate issue. The fact is that life is unfair, and not all kids have the same advantages. However you want to frame it, you cannot deny that fact. Yes, there are some highly resilient kids who were in foster care or were emancipated minors or who survived abuse and neglect and who nevertheless made it to a good college on their own, but they are very, very rare. Even kids from poor homes often have the privilege of loving parents who will do all they can to advance their children. My kids are privileged, as were nearly all the other students at their colleges and universities. Most of these kids had educated and encouraging parents, music lessons, good K-12 education, at least somewhat stable home lives, and the expectation of being supported through college (even if this didn't extend to having parents pay all fees). Yes, they worked very hard and were high achievers academically, but that was in part because we encouraged them and worked to create a safe, calm, enriching environment that was conducive to achievement. One of my kids was a recruited athlete and a nationally-ranked junior. We spent a small fortune on private lessons, access to sports facilities, and club memberships, and my DH coached. We attended any number of games and traveled at vast expense to nationals, etc., to give DC support and opportunities. It's not undermining DC's achievements to say they would probably not have become a recruited athlete without parents' extensive emotional and financial investment. Then we flew and drove all over the country to investigate colleges and universities to try to find the best fit. DC actually got both merit and need-based aid but wouldn't have been in a position to earn this assistance without ... privilege. |
Anonymous
I can see you don't like the word "privileged." Perhaps one could use the euphemism "advantaged," but it really means the same thing. Yes, ideally, every child would have the perfect childhood, but that's simply not always the case. Some kids have toxic parents who abuse them, have addictions, or have personality disorders that cause them to be jealous of their children and sabotage their opportunities. Some grow up in abject poverty with poorly educated parents who can't wait for them to get a full-time job, even if it means dropping out of high school. My kids have friends whose parents never had any intention of putting them through college or even helping them apply. What do you want to call the dynamic between these kids and kids who have lovely, stable home lives, attend $50K a year prep schools, and grow up expecting to go to college? Some kids are privileged relative to others. There's no way around that. |
Anonymous
Having loving parents is the most important “privilege” in the world. And precisely why a word that has negative connotations like that should not be used. Advantage is better because there is no moral valence. |
Anonymous
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“Privilege” has a clear definition. However, it is no longer useful as its mere appearance is a green light for many to vomit forth their agendas and opinions on issues often unrelated and without regard to the original topic, ending its discussion.
Onward! (Or start a new thread please as I was finding this original topic useful.) |
Anonymous
Here is the definition and why the word is inapplicable to young people with loving parents, who attend a good college, etc… A privilege is a certain entitlement to immunity granted by the state or another authority to a restricted group, either by birth or on a conditional basis. Land-titles and taxi medallions are examples of transferable privilege – they can be revoked in certain circumstances. In modern democratic states, a privilege is conditional and granted only after birth. By contrast, a right is an inherent, irrevocable entitlement held by all citizens or all human beings from the moment of birth. Various examples of old common law privilege still exist – to title deeds, for example.[1] Etymologically, a privilege (privilegium) means a "private law", or rule relating to a specific individual or institution. |
Anonymous
| Again, start a new thread on the topic you wish to discuss. If you are not posting an answer as to why someone would apply to Grinnell/oberlin/kenyon over east coast schools, then please refrain from posting. |
Anonymous
Privilege can mean different things to different people. 75% of students at Kenyon come from families in the top 20% by income. Only 1.7% come from the bottom 20%. In addition, most of these kids come from supportive families dedicated to advancing them. Ergo, most students at Kenyon are privileged. Two of my kids went to T15 SLACs. Most of their friends came from relatively wealthy homes. Their parents were doctors, lawyers, engineers, business people, university professors, etc. A surprising number were only children (meaning all the money and care went to one child only). On average, they have more privilege than most kids at public universities. When I look at the young people I have watched grow up, the advantages of privilege are obvious. I've known some of these kids all their lives. A friend's kid went to a $55K a year high school (and expensive private schools from pre-school on). She was immersed in a sport her parents chose for her when she was 3, and they spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on coaching. Her parents started panicking when she couldn't get her ACT over 30 and got her extensive private tuition. After several attempts and vast expense, they got her ACT up to 33. She was recruited as an athlete at Yale. She must have had some athletic ability, and she worked 20 hours a week at her sport, but she was probably in the top 0.1% in terms of parental financial investment and had every possible advantage in life. She's of above-average intelligence but is not unusually bright. Her mother shared with me that her IQ is only 126. Could you contrast this with the young man DC's bestie just married? He came to the U.S. illegally as a 13yo and didn't speak much English at the time. His parents were dirt poor, had eighth-grade educations, and worked very long hours for low pay. He went to a public high school that was infested with gangs. Nevertheless, he was able to go to a Tier 3 public university with lots of merit aid. He worked to help his family throughout college. When he graduated with majors in economics and computer science, he had to work in a menial job because he didn't have a green card. He recently got a green card and is finally earning decent money. I don't know his IQ, but I feel pretty sure he's smarter than the young woman who went to Yale. How can anyone claim the first kid is not extremely privileged relative to the second kid? Inequality is built into the fabric of our society. I'm stating that as a factual observation rather than a comment on fairness. I remember Brett Kavanaugh hotly claiming he went to Yale because he worked his butt off. Does he not think Georgetown Prep and relatively wealthy parents helped him to get there? How many kids can go through high school and at least part of their undergraduate education so drunk they need to "boof" regularly and end up with law degrees? The young Hispanic man described above may be smarter than Kavanaugh but was never going to have the same opportunities. Sorry. Privilege is a thing. |
Anonymous
TY! |
Anonymous
The words do not mean the same thing because the word "privilege" has a specific negative meaning in today's society - it's something you didn't earn that should be taken away from you in the interest of "fairness". I totally disagree that kids who have normal loving parents are "privileged" in this sense. "What do you want to call the dynamic between these kids and kids who have lovely, stable home lives, attend $50K a year prep schools, and grow up expecting to go to college?" There is no "dynamic" whatsoever. Some kids have parents with more money than others, so what. Even amongst the kids who went to that expensive private schools, some of them will have much richer parents than others. |
Anonymous
Of course, privilege is unearned. No, that does not mean it should be "taken away from you in the interest of fairness." We just accept that life is inherently unfair. " Some kids have parents with more money than others, so what. " Right. Some kids have more privilege than others. You can dismiss that as "So what?" or "Who cares?". The ability to do that is proof positive that privilege not only exists but is completely normalized. Privilege exists. Privileged people like it that way. That's the main reason they deny its existence. Maybe we should move this discussion to its own bulletin board. |
Anonymous
| Student satisfaction at these schools seems relatively high. You don’t hear a lot of negative reviews. Midwest atmosphere may be part of that. |