Dooce /Heather Armstrong

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

I wonder why you choose to engage in such negative thoughts about someone you know very little about? At least you’re honest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

I wonder why you choose to engage in such negative thoughts about someone you know very little about? At least you’re honest.

For what it's worth, I probably spent more time writing about that negative sentiment than I did feeling it. I just wondered why it resonated when it shouldn't.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

A lot of self awareness here and I think one reason you see a big divide in reactions.

I don't envy Dooce's life at all, including her fame and the positive attention she received. I don't even envy her success as a writer even though I am a writer (who has a day job that pays the bills).

I admire her success in finding a writing voice that worked for what she wanted to share with the world, and I appreciate that she found a way to create her own venue for connecting with readers instead of going through traditional systems, most of which are set up to keep out people who are not already on the inside of the systems.

But I don't resent her or feel anger towards her because I can see she DID in fact make sacrifices for her success. She sacrificed her privacy, and her family's privacy, and she put herself in the way of people eager to tear down people like herself. Why would I envy that? I have intentionally not made those choices.

I also can see that she had mental illness that was made much worse by those choices, and I have enough empathy to understand that she may not have understood how bad those impacts would be, or may have struggled to make better choices. I have people in my own family who have addiction issues and struggle with these choices. I work hard not to judge. I know it's hard. I don't know why it's easier for me to make those healthy choices and harder for them. I wish I could do something to help them make the healthy choices. But I can't. This is life. It's one of the hard truths of life that everyone must make these decisions for themselves, for better and sometimes, for worse.

So I don't get the vitriol. Her story is complicated and it has some great things (her writing helped and resonated with a lot of people who had never had access to her kind of truth-telling about life before) and some sad and disappointing things (her addiction issues, her inability to preserve her children's privacy, her mental health challenges that she never found a way to overcome). Why not recognize the good, recognize the bad, remember that no human being is perfect and wish her family the very best in their grief?

Railing against her and criticizing anyone who saw good in her seems like it's own kind of unhealthy choice, IMO.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

A lot of self awareness here and I think one reason you see a big divide in reactions.

I don't envy Dooce's life at all, including her fame and the positive attention she received. I don't even envy her success as a writer even though I am a writer (who has a day job that pays the bills).

I admire her success in finding a writing voice that worked for what she wanted to share with the world, and I appreciate that she found a way to create her own venue for connecting with readers instead of going through traditional systems, most of which are set up to keep out people who are not already on the inside of the systems.

But I don't resent her or feel anger towards her because I can see she DID in fact make sacrifices for her success. She sacrificed her privacy, and her family's privacy, and she put herself in the way of people eager to tear down people like herself. Why would I envy that? I have intentionally not made those choices.

I also can see that she had mental illness that was made much worse by those choices, and I have enough empathy to understand that she may not have understood how bad those impacts would be, or may have struggled to make better choices. I have people in my own family who have addiction issues and struggle with these choices. I work hard not to judge. I know it's hard. I don't know why it's easier for me to make those healthy choices and harder for them. I wish I could do something to help them make the healthy choices. But I can't. This is life. It's one of the hard truths of life that everyone must make these decisions for themselves, for better and sometimes, for worse.

So I don't get the vitriol. Her story is complicated and it has some great things (her writing helped and resonated with a lot of people who had never had access to her kind of truth-telling about life before) and some sad and disappointing things (her addiction issues, her inability to preserve her children's privacy, her mental health challenges that she never found a way to overcome). Why not recognize the good, recognize the bad, remember that no human being is perfect and wish her family the very best in their grief?

Railing against her and criticizing anyone who saw good in her seems like it's own kind of unhealthy choice, IMO.

This is really nuanced and fair.

I still think people blaming internet commentators for Heather’s suffering, to say nothing of her passing, are as or more awful as anyone else in this. And I’ve never posted a thing about her on GOMI or anywhere before her death. It’s just so dishonest to try and lay blame that way IMO.

[Anonymous]

Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

[phone]. No one who is healthy mentally posts private content to the internet for strangers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

Dooce typically went further than that because of her overlapping illnesses. She slept with the husbands of two friends, she launched a grenade into the TERF battlefields despite having a child exploding their identities. It’s all bad, and so was the writing, for me even at the beginning.

But. I do think she made a lot of women feel less alone and there is value in that. I do think she showed that the process of addiction recovery is really fraught and that multiple painful failures are the norm - and that is truly brave. I wish some part of her had kept the clarity that this was a painful moment or moments she was suffering through, and that she could have let those bad moments take their awful time so that she might outlive all of the wretched impulses. Heather was in her late 40s, when hormonal fluctuations add to the pressures women are typically under. It’s a bad layer that may have smothered her on top of the MI and whichever substance. Maybe in death, she will help other women, particularly her fans, hold on and try to live through the moments that feel unbearable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

You are the judge of what constitutes great literature? This made me laugh.

Before yesterday, I was vaguely aware of this woman’s existence, but had never read anything she had written. Now I have, I can say that the impact of her mental illness is clear is clear, but she is a far more naturally talented writer than you will ever be, and definitely a better human being.

I have been scanning this thread here and there, amazed at the people who continue to hold this blogger up as a literary hero. How can you know about her tirades against her own daughter, after sharing their entire life for the world to dissect, and then come here defending her as a better "human being" then anybody? There was a poster above who claimed those of us who don't adore her and lack empathy for this woman who raised her children while addicted to meth must "not be very bright." I cannot fathom how low intelligence you all, who cannot understand what was wrong not just with "Dooce," but with the entire culture of "mommy bloggers," must actually be.

These fans had and will apparently forever have intense parasocial relationships with that generation of bloggers. Mess.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

The continued pile-on of Heather is unnecessary. She dealt with it her whole life. Now she's dead. You don't have to like her, but to come onto this post to bash her is petty and vindictive. We're all complicated, flawed humans. Some of us just hide it better.

Agree! People are so mean.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

A lot of self awareness here and I think one reason you see a big divide in reactions.

I don't envy Dooce's life at all, including her fame and the positive attention she received. I don't even envy her success as a writer even though I am a writer (who has a day job that pays the bills).

I admire her success in finding a writing voice that worked for what she wanted to share with the world, and I appreciate that she found a way to create her own venue for connecting with readers instead of going through traditional systems, most of which are set up to keep out people who are not already on the inside of the systems.

But I don't resent her or feel anger towards her because I can see she DID in fact make sacrifices for her success. She sacrificed her privacy, and her family's privacy, and she put herself in the way of people eager to tear down people like herself. Why would I envy that? I have intentionally not made those choices.

I also can see that she had mental illness that was made much worse by those choices, and I have enough empathy to understand that she may not have understood how bad those impacts would be, or may have struggled to make better choices. I have people in my own family who have addiction issues and struggle with these choices. I work hard not to judge. I know it's hard. I don't know why it's easier for me to make those healthy choices and harder for them. I wish I could do something to help them make the healthy choices. But I can't. This is life. It's one of the hard truths of life that everyone must make these decisions for themselves, for better and sometimes, for worse.

So I don't get the vitriol. Her story is complicated and it has some great things (her writing helped and resonated with a lot of people who had never had access to her kind of truth-telling about life before) and some sad and disappointing things (her addiction issues, her inability to preserve her children's privacy, her mental health challenges that she never found a way to overcome). Why not recognize the good, recognize the bad, remember that no human being is perfect and wish her family the very best in their grief?

Railing against her and criticizing anyone who saw good in her seems like it's own kind of unhealthy choice, IMO.

This is really nuanced and fair.

I still think people blaming internet commentators for Heather’s suffering, to say nothing of her passing, are as or more awful as anyone else in this. And I’ve never posted a thing about her on GOMI or anywhere before her death. It’s just so dishonest to try and lay blame that way IMO.

Maybe, but the people who are saying that are speaking from a place of grief. If you read and were really affected positively by Dooce's writing, and especially if you identified with her personally, then it is pretty rational as you work through your grief to lash out at people that you think treated her unkindly or unfairly. Maybe give those people some room to work through that given that Dooce died less than a week ago?

Also, as someone who doesn't fall into that category, even I can see that some of the stuff that was written about Dooce and others on GOMI were cheap and unfair. I even agree with the arguments that the confessional nature of blogs like Dooce's, and her use of her children in her work, was unethical and irresponsible. But I think a lot of the criticism on GOMI and other places totally ceded the high ground by making their attacks personal and vicious (in itself unethical, IMO). GOMI is disingenuous in that it claims to hate people like Dooce, but in reality GOMI is a parasite of the confessional/no-boundaries era of blogging. GOMI hasn't done much good and it's done a lot of harm. I think it's okay to discuss that when looking at the legacy (both good and bad) of Dooce and that era of blogging.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So on top of all the time spent here, you all really spend a lot of time reading poorly written half truths about women’s lives. I cannot believe how seriously people take bloggers like this. I can’t believe it is therapeutic or helpful in any way.

What she did wasn’t really writing, it was preening. I’m so sorry she passed. However, and her lunatic fans will freak — none of her shtick would have worked but for her initial happy life, thinness, prettiness. The writing was never there, she is not Mary Carr or Leslie Jamison. It always required pictures and cool-girl blasé bullshit balanced with meltdowns. It was always stupid and squawking and without much to it, all hat and no cattle. But it gave a lot of ugly comfort to some women, as they were less divorced. Less f’ed up. Less drunk. Less scrutinized. And so forth. It was always gross, but it netted Armstrong a lot of money. I wish she’d found some medication and therapeutic plan that actually worked for her. I don’t actually think she’s more gifted than the banal, stupid Jo from Cup of Jo. But Jo was luckier.

Exactly. But Jo also made her own luck!!! She works on her mental health, controls her drinking, writes openly but is not overexposed. Joanna has struck a really good balance and is running a business where the product is women’s interest in each other, not just in HER.

Heather was a prisoner of her attachment to her own physical attractiveness, her wit, her counterculture iconoclast vibe. A mentally ill narcissist who wrought fury and hellfire on her own ex husband, partner and daughters.

What someone else wrote is true. Dooce was a shallow, sick addict who preened for attention, who virtually gagged for it and lived and died for it. She was a grotesque example of the worst of influencer culture and to dislike her is not to be a GOMI troll, it’s to be an adult with one’s own opinion. Quit bringing Alice and GOMI into it! Your obsession with GOMI says more about YOU than GOMI itself. Alice is NOT responsible for these narcissists that overexpose their lives for likes and affiliate link $$!!!

Ok, Alice. You can head back to your own corner of the internets now.

I'm a different poster who had never heard of GOMI, but the PP is dead on about this Dooce. Why do so many posters here defend these narcissistic, drug-addicted, dilettantes?

This is an ugly sentiment and it resonated with me. I don't know a great deal about dooce, so why should I feel anything at all, let alone relate to a negative sentiment about her? Upon reflection, I think it has to do with the narcissism and dilettante description, coupled with the fact that she was famous and, for a time anyway, successful. It feels like an affront to the sacrifices most people make in the name of stability and love for others; particularly as parents and spouses. We stay at home or take grind-it-out jobs, we don't flit from thing to thing, we make the world better for friends and loved ones -- at least in a small way, we don't chase long shot dreams, and our sacrifices generally don't get recognized, let alone rewarded. Meanwhile, here is a woman who seemingly did none of that -- at least not on a sustained basis; and she was showered with riches and attention.

This is a very jaundiced view of the situation; but I think it's what is going through my head when I feel myself tempted to nod at hostile descriptions of a woman I didn't know and could easily avoid reading or reading about.

A lot of self awareness here and I think one reason you see a big divide in reactions.

I don't envy Dooce's life at all, including her fame and the positive attention she received. I don't even envy her success as a writer even though I am a writer (who has a day job that pays the bills).

I admire her success in finding a writing voice that worked for what she wanted to share with the world, and I appreciate that she found a way to create her own venue for connecting with readers instead of going through traditional systems, most of which are set up to keep out people who are not already on the inside of the systems.

But I don't resent her or feel anger towards her because I can see she DID in fact make sacrifices for her success. She sacrificed her privacy, and her family's privacy, and she put herself in the way of people eager to tear down people like herself. Why would I envy that? I have intentionally not made those choices.

I also can see that she had mental illness that was made much worse by those choices, and I have enough empathy to understand that she may not have understood how bad those impacts would be, or may have struggled to make better choices. I have people in my own family who have addiction issues and struggle with these choices. I work hard not to judge. I know it's hard. I don't know why it's easier for me to make those healthy choices and harder for them. I wish I could do something to help them make the healthy choices. But I can't. This is life. It's one of the hard truths of life that everyone must make these decisions for themselves, for better and sometimes, for worse.

So I don't get the vitriol. Her story is complicated and it has some great things (her writing helped and resonated with a lot of people who had never had access to her kind of truth-telling about life before) and some sad and disappointing things (her addiction issues, her inability to preserve her children's privacy, her mental health challenges that she never found a way to overcome). Why not recognize the good, recognize the bad, remember that no human being is perfect and wish her family the very best in their grief?

Railing against her and criticizing anyone who saw good in her seems like it's own kind of unhealthy choice, IMO.

This is really nuanced and fair.

I still think people blaming internet commentators for Heather’s suffering, to say nothing of her passing, are as or more awful as anyone else in this. And I’ve never posted a thing about her on GOMI or anywhere before her death. It’s just so dishonest to try and lay blame that way IMO.

Maybe, but the people who are saying that are speaking from a place of grief. If you read and were really affected positively by Dooce's writing, and especially if you identified with her personally, then it is pretty rational as you work through your grief to lash out at people that you think treated her unkindly or unfairly. Maybe give those people some room to work through that given that Dooce died less than a week ago?

Also, as someone who doesn't fall into that category, even I can see that some of the stuff that was written about Dooce and others on GOMI were cheap and unfair. I even agree with the arguments that the confessional nature of blogs like Dooce's, and her use of her children in her work, was unethical and irresponsible. But I think a lot of the criticism on GOMI and other places totally ceded the high ground by making their attacks personal and vicious (in itself unethical, IMO). GOMI is disingenuous in that it claims to hate people like Dooce, but in reality GOMI is a parasite of the confessional/no-boundaries era of blogging. GOMI hasn't done much good and it's done a lot of harm. I think it's okay to discuss that when looking at the legacy (both good and bad) of Dooce and that era of blogging.

Well, no. It’s completely fine for people who vary wildly in how they view controversial public figures. It’s completely fine for them to comment accordingly following whatever forum rules attach, it seems no one violated the DCUM 24- hour rule. If purportedly rational grown women want to scream at other people for their own assessments about Dooce or internet culture or memoir type writing, they can get whatever is volleyed in return. Give me a break, please.
This level of attachment is sick as hell. It’s okay to discuss that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

+ a zillion. It is so gross.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

+ a zillion. It is so gross.

They’re “in mourning” as if they are invited to show up and sit shiva, you see, despite the fact that this specific discussion is not happening on any of Armstrong’s media sites nor those of anyone affiliated with her. GMAFB.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Bloggers and influencer are narcissists. In order to satisfy their need for praise and attention they exploit their marriages, children, and all personal relationships. Such a sad life. Caring more about strangers on the Internet than the real people in their lives.

That's a very superficial take. Bloggers ran the whole spectrum of humanity.

[Anonymous]

The continued pile-on of Heather is unnecessary. She dealt with it her whole life. Now she's dead. You don't have to like her, but to come onto this post to bash her is petty and vindictive. We're all complicated, flawed humans. Some of us just hide it better.

Agree! People are so mean.


+1