Help me with a Whitman snob!

[Anonymous]

I currently live in MOCO, near the Glenmont Metro. As I'm sure most of you know, this is in the DownCounty Consortium with Wheaton as the base school. Obviously not our first choice of schools, but we bought before we had kids with the intention of moving before they (when they appeared) entered school. That time has come, and now my husband seems stuck on wanting to move into Whitman, Churchill, or Wootton. I'm trying to convince him that Walter Johnson and BCC should also be on our list, and possibly Richard Montgomery as well. We definitely want out of the DCC, but want to stay as close in as possible (so no to poolesville). I don't think we can afford the schools he wants, but he seems willing to sacrifice things that we have said are must haves in order to get into Whitman in particular. For example, both of us have hobbies that are based in the kitchen. We currently have a galley kitchen and HATE it. We have both said many times that whenever we move we must have more space in the kitchen. We live on a busy street (Georgia) and we HATE it. The noise makes it impossible to sleep with any windows open. Yet now he is trying to sell me on a house on a busy street with a galley kitchen that is somehow even smaller than what we currently have. He thinks that the sacrifice is worth it to get into Whitman. Any advice for how to convince him that these schools are not the only place on earth where our kids can succeed? Sure, great schools are wonderful, but the tradeoff between having a house that meets our needs is not worth it.

[Anonymous]

I live in the Wootton cluster and there are affordable houses. You just need to be patient.

[Anonymous]

Did he go to Whitman or something?

Here's the thing, though. Your kid(s) are just starting kindergarten I assume? They could be "so" different by the time they reach high school. You really have no idea what their strengths and weaknesses are, much less their interests and possibly college/career goals.

FWIW, I've got friends in the DCC with high school kids and they are doing great. I actually think it's easier in high school than feeder middle schools, depending on which one you are zoned for. But if you hate it, moving out is reasonable.

But making a decision that will impact you for 15 years + merits more thought than just schools. Take financial goals, standard of living, etc. into account, too.

And finally, if you weren't so unhappy with your kitchen/house right now, I'd say consider private school. It is often financially more prudent to live in a lower-cost neighborhood and go to private school than it is to move into a top-performing school cluster with the associated costs. Don't forget that lovely thing called peer pressure. A Whitman or Wootton or BCC crowd is going to bring peer expectations that a DCC crowd may not have. Expensive clothes, trips, travel teams, hobbies, etc. Those have to be factored in, too. High school is expensive. SAT prep alone is insane.

[Anonymous]

I am a Whitman parent and really happy with the school. But I certainly think that WJ and BCC are equally good schools and a pretty similar student body. Yes we are in a smaller house in Bethesda than we would be just about anywhere else in the area (other than maybe Georgetown). There are always tradeoffs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:...

And finally, if you weren't so unhappy with your kitchen/house right now, I'd say consider private school. It is often financially more prudent to live in a lower-cost neighborhood and go to private school than it is to move into a top-performing school cluster with the associated costs. Don't forget that lovely thing called peer pressure. A Whitman or Wootton or BCC crowd is going to bring peer expectations that a DCC crowd may not have. Expensive clothes, trips, travel teams, hobbies, etc. Those have to be factored in, too. High school is expensive. SAT prep alone is insane.

I disagree that it's financially more prudent to live in a small house and send your kids to private school. You might choose this route because your kid needs small classes or for another reason, but financially you would be better off building up equity in a more expensive house and sending your kids to a good public school.

I'm also surprised PP disregards peer pressure, expensive clothes, and SAT prep for private school kids. All these things are equal, if not more of a problem, in private schools. Unless she was comparing Whitman to the DCC and/or making a point about reserving money in your budget for SAT prep, in which case I would agree, but it's unclear.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:...

And finally, if you weren't so unhappy with your kitchen/house right now, I'd say consider private school. It is often financially more prudent to live in a lower-cost neighborhood and go to private school than it is to move into a top-performing school cluster with the associated costs. Don't forget that lovely thing called peer pressure. A Whitman or Wootton or BCC crowd is going to bring peer expectations that a DCC crowd may not have. Expensive clothes, trips, travel teams, hobbies, etc. Those have to be factored in, too. High school is expensive. SAT prep alone is insane.

I disagree that it's financially more prudent to live in a small house and send your kids to private school. You might choose this route because your kid needs small classes or for another reason, but financially you would be better off building up equity in a more expensive house and sending your kids to a good public school.

I'm also surprised PP disregards peer pressure, expensive clothes, and SAT prep for private school kids. All these things are equal, if not more of a problem, in private schools. Unless she was comparing Whitman to the DCC and/or making a point about reserving money in your budget for SAT prep, in which case I would agree, but it's unclear.

Not the private schools in my price range, like St. Johns or Good Counsel. They have a pretty solid middle class group. Of course there are outliers. But not so much that these things would be difficult to deal with.

[Anonymous]

I am assuming your children will go to college and excel academically. That can be done at any school in MoCo. If it's a certain student body you are interested in, that's another story.

Show your husband the college acceptance rates relative to the applications for the W's , B-CC etc. Each school's career center uses a program called Naviance that shows you these numbers. You can sign in as a guest for any school and see these stats. He might be very surprised by the acceptance rates for the Ivy League schools and other competitive institutions. It might also surprise him that a large percentage of W's/B-CC grads apply and are accepted to UMD at College Park, which is attainable at any MoCo school, so long as you have your child on a certain academic track and has good SAT scores (tutoring is almost essential for every student at any school). He will also clearly see that there is a lot less competition in the DCC.

A friend of mine who is an attorney and UVA grad has her son at Einstein. He's doing great in the IB program. She didn't buy into the status crap. What a win for him!

[Anonymous]

I think it's more of a problem at the elementary level than the high school level to live in an undesirable area.

[Anonymous]

18:02 - Got it.

There are a lot of alternatives for elementary - middle school via magnet programs etc. It might require some travel but it is definitely doable from the Georgia avenue corridor. We actually did that with my child through the 8th grade. She just started high school in the NEC. She is in all honors classes and doing extremely well. She was well prepared by both her elementary and middle schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am assuming your children will go to college and excel academically. That can be done at any school in MoCo. If it's a certain student body you are interested in, that's another story.

Show your husband the college acceptance rates relative to the applications for the W's , B-CC etc. Each school's career center uses a program called Naviance that shows you these numbers. You can sign in as a guest for any school and see these stats. He might be very surprised by the acceptance rates for the Ivy League schools and other competitive institutions. It might also surprise him that a large percentage of W's/B-CC grads apply and are accepted to UMD at College Park, which is attainable at any MoCo school, so long as you have your child on a certain academic track and has good SAT scores (tutoring is almost essential for every student at any school). He will also clearly see that there is a lot less competition in the DCC.

A friend of mine who is an attorney and UVA grad has her son at Einstein. He's doing great in the IB program. She didn't buy into the status crap. What a win for him!

I went to the website and couldn't figure out how to access this data. Can you explain in more detail?

[Anonymous]

To the poster who asked if he went to Whitman, why yes, he did . I think that is my main hurdle.

I would rather spend the money on building equity in a house located in a good school district than spend the money on private school tuition. Luckily we have a bit more time before we will be ready to start searching seriously, but I don't expect it to go smoothly.

[Anonymous]

There is a good reason he wants your kids to go to Whitman, and he knows what it is having gone there himself. It is an AMAZING school! Really, it is. I have a kid there now, and I am so happy with the choice we made to live in the Whitman Cluster. The principal is probably one of the best in the county. He truly is incredible. Most of the teachers my daughter has had have been incredible. There will always be a few clunkers at any school. I completely understand your husband's loyalty. I went to another high school in the county that I would not want my own children to attend now. I would agree, though, that you can't go wrong with Wooten, Walter Johnson, Churchill or BCC. I wouldn't want my kid to go to RM unless he/she were in the IB program. Move while your kids are young so that they will know other children when they transition to middle school. It's hard to go into a new school not knowing anyone. Kids can and will succeed at all Montgomery County Public Schools-- even schools not perceived to be as good as the other schools I mentioned. If you really look, you can find a decent house in the area. I don't know how much you have to spend.

[Anonymous]

On the private school vs. mortgage question, I do believe there are cases where it makes more sense to stay in a cheaper area and pay for private school (though it sounds like you don't like your house and area anyway). For us, it would cost approximately $300K more for a home of our size, yard, and convenience in Bethesda than where we are now in Silver Spring. Our house is now nearly paid off, so taking on a $300k mortgage (and the approx. $300K lifetime interest, plus greatly increased property taxes) starts to look a whole lot like spending $20k a year in private school (plus the benefits some private schools provide like smaller classes). Sure, you don't get the $20k back, but you don't get any of your interest back when you sell a house either, or your property taxes. And you don't get a guarantee that class sizes won't go way up, or your school won't be rezoned, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On the private school vs. mortgage question, I do believe there are cases where it makes more sense to stay in a cheaper area and pay for private school (though it sounds like you don't like your house and area anyway). For us, it would cost approximately $300K more for a home of our size, yard, and convenience in Bethesda than where we are now in Silver Spring. Our house is now nearly paid off, so taking on a $300k mortgage (and the approx. $300K lifetime interest, plus greatly increased property taxes) starts to look a whole lot like spending $20k a year in private school (plus the benefits some private schools provide like smaller classes). Sure, you don't get the $20k back, but you don't get any of your interest back when you sell a house either, or your property taxes. And you don't get a guarantee that class sizes won't go way up, or your school won't be rezoned, etc.

plus the cost of getting a house ready for sale, sales costs, moving costs, new curtains/furniture/blinds for the new house not to mention leaving your friends and support system you have build in the elementary years in your neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

The sites are a little hard to find. Go to the career center on the websites. Most times you can find a password for guests. The ones I know:

B-CC - barons
Walter Johnson - wildcats
Wooten - no guest password needed
Churchill - no guest access (could it be because of the low acceptance rates for a few of the Ivys that I saw published in Bethesda mag a year or two ago?)

The stats are eye opening. Here is one:

For the University of Penn:

B-CC - 40 applications, 3 admissions
Walter Johnson - 37 applications, 2 admissions

Note the high level of acceptance rates to UMD at CP at these schools. Attainable at any MoCo school if your child is on the right track.

Look at the scattergrams. Very enlightening.

We are very happy with our decision to place our child as a bigger fish in a smaller pond, but the choice has to work for your family. Being well informed about the end goal helped tremendously with making our decision.

We are s