School System Rankings

[Anonymous]

I do not understand how MCPS (and for that matter, FCPS, HCPS, etc.) say that they rank (fill in single-digit number here) nationally, when there are so many (SO MANY) excellent public school systems in e.g. New England, where each town has its own system.

Take this for example:

http://www.bostonmagazine.com/articles/best-schools-boston-2012-top-50/

I graduated from high school in one of the top ten school districts listed there, and my sister's kids are there now. I know that it provides its students with an education which is at least as good (actually better IMO - but let's not get into that) than what MCPS provides. The town population is ~26,000 people.

The same goes for many of the school systems listed there.

Comparing these town-based systems to MCPS (or FCPS etc.) is a futile exercise - apples and oranges.

So when MCPS says it ranks fifth nationally, against what systems does it compare itself?

I don't get it at all.

[Anonymous]

Maybe they're touting the ranking from Forbes Magazine?

"Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS) is the 5th best school district in America in terms of delivering high student performance at a low cost, according to a new analysis published in Forbes magazine. MCPS ranked the highest of any school system in Maryland and the Washington, D.C. region on the list of 97 districts studied by Forbes. "

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=2192&type=archive&startYear=2007&pageNumber=10&mode=

If not that one, I'm sure there have been other attempts at ranking school systems.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Maybe they're touting the ranking from Forbes Magazine?

"Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS) is the 5th best school district in America in terms of delivering high student performance at a low cost, according to a new analysis published in Forbes magazine. MCPS ranked the highest of any school system in Maryland and the Washington, D.C. region on the list of 97 districts studied by Forbes. "

http://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/press/index.aspx?pagetype=showrelease&id=2192&type=archive&startYear=2007&pageNumber=10&mode=

If not that one, I'm sure there have been other attempts at ranking school systems.

But what school systems are they comparing? Large ones? All school systems?

What about all the excellent school systems in other town-based areas, e.g. New York, New Jersey, Illinois (Chicago area)? Are those considered? Because I find it hard to believe they are counting each and every school system, including those systems in towns with populations of e.g. 25,000.

[Anonymous]

As per the link:

"The Forbes analysis focused on 775 counties with more than 65,000 residents that had the highest average property taxes. Forbes narrowed the final list to 97 by looking at the jurisdictions where more than 50 percent of the education spending came from property taxes. The study examined the per pupil spending costs adjusted for the cost of living in these communities and compared them with national student performance indicators such as SAT scores and participation rates and high school graduation rates. "

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As per the link:

"The Forbes analysis focused on 775 counties with more than 65,000 residents that had the highest average property taxes. Forbes narrowed the final list to 97 by looking at the jurisdictions where more than 50 percent of the education spending came from property taxes. The study examined the per pupil spending costs adjusted for the cost of living in these communities and compared them with national student performance indicators such as SAT scores and participation rates and high school graduation rates. "

Sounds like they only focused on counties, not on towns - and on large counties at that.

"Ranked fifth" is misleading. I'd be interested to know how it really ranks, if you compare each and every school system nationwide, including towns with small populations of highly-educated people.

[Anonymous]

So many school systems and schools will tell you they are the best. In the U.S., I went to the "best" private school in Orlando, then we moved to one of the "best" school districts in the US (Plano) and went to the school in best of PLano's school, and then moved to Losa Gatos, CA, whose private schools were also the "best". One of the gifts of moving is knowing that many places consider themselves the best - and having a little perspective on that.

[Anonymous]

The schools in places like New York, NJ and Mass are organized entirely differently than the huge county-based systems here. As you noted, apples to oranges. We've experienced both and they each have pluses and minuses. At the end of the day, I think it comes down to the child's home environment and the quality of the teacher.

[Anonymous]

MCPS has the highest graduation rate among the "largest school systems in the nation" in 2011.

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/DC-Nations-Best-Graduation-Rate-in-Montgomery-County-123397728.html

It was also "one of the five best urban school districts in the nation" and finalist for the Broad Prize in 2010.

http://germantown.wusa9.com/content/one-nations-best-montgomery-county-public-schools-wins-250000-college-scholarships

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As per the link:

"The Forbes analysis focused on 775 counties with more than 65,000 residents that had the highest average property taxes. Forbes narrowed the final list to 97 by looking at the jurisdictions where more than 50 percent of the education spending came from property taxes. The study examined the per pupil spending costs adjusted for the cost of living in these communities and compared them with national student performance indicators such as SAT scores and participation rates and high school graduation rates. "

Sounds like they only focused on counties, not on towns - and on large counties at that.

"Ranked fifth" is misleading. I'd be interested to know how it really ranks, if you compare each and every school system nationwide, including towns with small populations of highly-educated people.

Why is it misleading... who cares if a tiny school district in Montana is the best if it doesn't serve a large number of students. The analysis shows districts where one could realisticly move to and be served. There no way around MCPS being one of the best all things considered...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As per the link:

"The Forbes analysis focused on 775 counties with more than 65,000 residents that had the highest average property taxes. Forbes narrowed the final list to 97 by looking at the jurisdictions where more than 50 percent of the education spending came from property taxes. The study examined the per pupil spending costs adjusted for the cost of living in these communities and compared them with national student performance indicators such as SAT scores and participation rates and high school graduation rates. "

Sounds like they only focused on counties, not on towns - and on large counties at that.

"Ranked fifth" is misleading. I'd be interested to know how it really ranks, if you compare each and every school system nationwide, including towns with small populations of highly-educated people.

Why is it misleading... who cares if a tiny school district in Montana is the best if it doesn't serve a large number of students. The analysis shows districts where one could realisticly move to and be served. There no way around MCPS being one of the best all things considered...

It is misleading because there are vast swaths of the country (New England, New York, New Jersey) whose school systems are town-based, not county-based (you would call them "tiny" but by town standards many are not), but as good - and in many cases much better - than MCPS. None of these systems (or the other 46 in the list in the OP link), however, are taken into account, because none of them is county-based.

One could very realistically move e.g. to Weston, Wellesley, Newton, or Natick, Mass (for example), and be served better than one is served in MCPS. Consider also Greenwich, Madison, Ridgefield, New Canaan, Westport, Fairfield, CT; Manhattan Beach, CA; Barrington, RI; Cape Elizabeth, Yarmouth, Falmouth, Maine (that last voted best school district in the country for your real estate buck). The list goes on and on. All of these systems are town-based, many not "tiny" (at least by local standards), many or most have results that beat those of MCPS.

That is what is misleading about the "fifth" ranking. MCPS is not really "fifth" if you take ALL school systems, county- *and* town-based, into account.

[Anonymous]

OP, I'm from the Boston area too, and my old high routinely ranks high on surveys of the type you mention. And I went to an Ivy League school for undergrad with kids from most of those other Boston area top-ranked schools (as well as kids from BCC and Whitman.)

I don't think there is any relevance to slogans touting ANY school as "best in the country" or "fifth/sixth/seventh best." There are too many schools, and too many variables, including the county/town issue previously mentioned. But let me just add that I woulkd take issue with your presumption that the Boston-area schools are superior to MCPS. I have kids in MCPS (not sure if you do), and from my experience with the best schools in Boston, MCPS is equivalent or superior. And really, if the PP really thinks that Natick, MA or Barrington RI has a better school system than MCPS, she is seriously misinformed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm from the Boston area too, and my old high routinely ranks high on surveys of the type you mention. And I went to an Ivy League school for undergrad with kids from most of those other Boston area top-ranked schools (as well as kids from BCC and Whitman.)

I don't think there is any relevance to slogans touting ANY school as "best in the country" or "fifth/sixth/seventh best." There are too many schools, and too many variables, including the county/town issue previously mentioned. But let me just add that I woulkd take issue with your presumption that the Boston-area schools are superior to MCPS. I have kids in MCPS (not sure if you do), and from my experience with the best schools in Boston, MCPS is equivalent or superior. And really, if the PP really thinks that Natick, MA or Barrington RI has a better school system than MCPS, she is seriously misinformed.

OP here. I do have children in MCPS schools (high school and middle school, so it has been a number of years and four schools to date). I do think that many of the Boston-area school systems are superior to MCPS. Not all, but certainly many of them. And there is no doubt whatsoever that as a taxpayer in those school systems, one has far more voice in the system workings than we do here.

My point is that the MCPS PR machine is working hard, and its statements about "the best" are not based on real data (because, as you say, there are too many schools, and too many variables).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I'm from the Boston area too, and my old high routinely ranks high on surveys of the type you mention. And I went to an Ivy League school for undergrad with kids from most of those other Boston area top-ranked schools (as well as kids from BCC and Whitman.)

I don't think there is any relevance to slogans touting ANY school as "best in the country" or "fifth/sixth/seventh best." There are too many schools, and too many variables, including the county/town issue previously mentioned. But let me just add that I woulkd take issue with your presumption that the Boston-area schools are superior to MCPS. I have kids in MCPS (not sure if you do), and from my experience with the best schools in Boston, MCPS is equivalent or superior. And really, if the PP really thinks that Natick, MA or Barrington RI has a better school system than MCPS, she is seriously misinformed.

Are you familiar with Barrington? It is a very affluent town, much nicer than e.g. Bethesda or Potomac, and populated by high-income professionals. The school system is excellent, certainly rivals MCPS.