Future Western High School

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes, FCPS should stupidly continue to expand Langley and Cooper so even more kids whose parents are rich can be bussed to schools nowhere near they live.

Once more:

The reason kids are bused so far:
1. Closest school cannot absorb the extra numbers.
2. I'm not familiar with Forestville--but do all the kids go to Langley? It is a good thing to keep the kids with the same cohort.

3. If the parents are happy and the school is happy, then why do you care? Win/win.

Are you as upset about kids who live near Centreville/Clifton being bused to Fairfax? Some live one mile from Centreville and way less distance than Fairfax.
How about the kids that live less than 2 miles from Chantilly and go to Oakton? Are you concerned about them?

I'm guessing that this goes on all over Fairfax County. Again, why is this so important to you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP, but as long as the Langley posters keep arrogantly insisting that in no way, shape, or form can they possibly be affected by a new western high school, when kids living next door to Loudoun are getting bussed 12 miles or so to a school near Arlington, the more others will keep reminding them they live in the same county as the rest of us.

And the whole “look at the map” shtick is getting old when the map highlights how far we’ve been bussing rich kids to their rich-kid school.

This thread is starting to go in circles, but posts like this one keep ignoring that bussing Great Falls kids to Langley is the right thing to do from a capacity management standpoint -- Langley is well under capacity (i.e. needs students) and Great Falls parents want their kids to go there. There is literally no incentive for the School Board -- irrespective of who is on the School Board -- to change that. The comments on this thread largely reinforce the point. There don't appear to be any Langley parents from outside Great Falls saying "get those snotty kids out of our school." There also don't appear to be any parents looking to get redistricted into Langley.

Yes, there are parts of Great Falls that are closer to Herndon. But there are also plenty of high schools in the western part of the county that need capacity relief. If the new school gets built, that will be the target for redistricting. It would be huge stretch to lump Langley -- on the other side of the county -- into that discussion. And, like it or not, there is no logical reason to move kids out of a school that is below capacity even if another school is more convenient.

(Although worth noting is that the parts of Great Falls that are closest to Herndon are also the most lightly populated. So you aren't talking about a lot of students.)

Even Tysons growth likely doesn't change that analysis. The only way that Great Falls kids are getting moved is through an across-the-board redistricting . . . and that would likely be political suicide for the School Board.

The above post is just bogus. The low density areas that feed to Langley are western Mclean - outside the special tax district which go to Spring Hill ES, most of the Great Falls ES attendance area, a portion of the Colvin Run attendance area that used to go to Great Falls ES, small portion of what remained at Forestville.

Exactly what parts of Great Falls have Herndon, Reston, or Vienna addresses? " Parts of Great Falls closest to Herndon HS" is so wrong because those residences are not in Great Falls except for Holly Knoll which is not low density and neither are those Herndon addresses.

Pull up boundary maps- easy to find. Here's who got sent to Colvin Run from Forestville [on green spot on the left called Nike Park], Great Falls [near green spot called Great Falls Grange], and Spring Hill. Across Route 7 from Colvin Run is the Toll Bros development. No administrative boundary change from Spring Hill. Find the logic. I cannot unless FCPS is waiting for something big.

Safa Court, Herndon-Forestville, Cooper, Langley. 2.6 miles to Herndon HS. 14.2 to 17 miles to Langley depending on the route.

I'm the PP whose post you called bogus. The highest-density parts of Great Falls -- on a relative scale -- are east of Springvale and south of Georgetown Pike. Those areas all go to GEFS or Colvin Run. Most of that area, especially east of Great Falls Village, is closer to Langley than to Herndon (though pretty far from both). There are certainly some higher-density pockets west of Springvale -- you note one -- but there is unquestionably less density in that area. Those are all facts.

Also facts: Langley is well under capacity (it's at ~90%, that's as low as it gets outside of the southernmost parts of the county). Great Falls parents like sending their kids to Langley.

We can argue all day about whether Forestville should feed to Herndon. Herndon is certainly closer. My point is simply that FCPS has much bigger capacity issues to address. Unless Forestville parents want to go to Herndon over Langley (and perhaps some or most do . . . I don't live there so I have no idea), there is no incentive for FCPS to move them out of below-capacity middle and high schools.

I guess you really do not live in northwestern Fairfax County: north Reston, Great Falls, Herndon PO, Vienna PO. Forestville has standard Fairfax County developments like Holly Knoll and Riva Ridge area. Both of these are similar to Shouse Village [Vienna PO] which is the site of Colvin Run.

Nor are you familiar with what was not included or not included in any of the boundary change processes over the last 30 plus years. So start at the elementary level and first look at who goes where. The whole mess was designed to infill Colvin Run and 1st fill Forestville with the Herndon, Holly Knoll, south of Route 7 developments. Backfill Great Falls with what's left. So anything towards or in the Tysons area could utilize Colvin Run [domino] and there are other schools in the Hunter Mill corridor that are under like Forest Edge and Sunrise Valley.

FCPS selects groups of schools for boundary processes and has not done anything big since the South Lakes change. It used to be active but now is really just political but never had such oddities as the West Potomac-Mount Vernon situation in prior decades. This prior board hands down wins least responsible. So people complain about Fritsch but spend an hour on program capacity and enrollment for a block of elementary schools and it's obvious Blake Lane Park was not necessary. It's also obvious that Hunter Mill reps and an at large member [therefore all 3]who lives in that area were negligent.

So despite Moon's contributions for years I was not sorry to see Omeish get the FCDC endorsement instead of him. Keyes Gamarra should have been replaced.

[Anonymous]

I guess you really do not live in northwestern Fairfax County: north Reston, Great Falls, Herndon PO, Vienna PO. Forestville has standard Fairfax County developments like Holly Knoll and Riva Ridge area. Both of these are similar to Shouse Village [Vienna PO] which is the site of Colvin Run.

Nor are you familiar with what was not included or not included in any of the boundary change processes over the last 30 plus years. So start at the elementary level and first look at who goes where. The whole mess was designed to infill Colvin Run and 1st fill Forestville with the Herndon, Holly Knoll, south of Route 7 developments. Backfill Great Falls with what's left. So anything towards or in the Tysons area could utilize Colvin Run [domino] and there are other schools in the Hunter Mill corridor that are under like Forest Edge and Sunrise Valley.

FCPS selects groups of schools for boundary processes and has not done anything big since the South Lakes change. It used to be active but now is really just political but never had such oddities as the West Potomac-Mount Vernon situation in prior decades. This prior board hands down wins least responsible. So people complain about Fritsch but spend an hour on program capacity and enrollment for a block of elementary schools and it's obvious Blake Lane Park was not necessary. It's also obvious that Hunter Mill reps and an at large member [therefore all 3]who lives in that area were negligent.

So despite Moon's contributions for years I was not sorry to see Omeish get the FCDC endorsement instead of him. Keyes Gamarra should have been replaced.

Trying to figure out your point. Do you want Forest Edge and Sunrise Valley to go to Langley? I'm not following. I do agree with your claim that it is political--but, it has ALWAYS been political. Are you familiar with what Kathy Smith did with her neighborhood elementary school? Cannot get much more political than that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, FCPS should stupidly continue to expand Langley and Cooper so even more kids whose parents are rich can be bussed to schools nowhere near they live.

Once more:

The reason kids are bused so far:
1. Closest school cannot absorb the extra numbers.
2. I'm not familiar with Forestville--but do all the kids go to Langley? It is a good thing to keep the kids with the same cohort.

3. If the parents are happy and the school is happy, then why do you care? Win/win.

Are you as upset about kids who live near Centreville/Clifton being bused to Fairfax? Some live one mile from Centreville and way less distance than Fairfax.
How about the kids that live less than 2 miles from Chantilly and go to Oakton? Are you concerned about them?

I'm guessing that this goes on all over Fairfax County. Again, why is this so important to you?

The situation with kids who live Centreville and Clifton going to Fairfax is a result of weird boundaries due to all Fairfax City kids attending Fairfax, even though some are closer to Oakton and Woodson, and Madison/Oakton/Fairfax/Woodson being so close to one another. It's also not ideal, as there are families at Fairfax who'd like to send their kids to Centreville, which is closer.

Herndon is being expanded to 2500 seats, so between those additional seats and another 2500 or seats that might be added with a new high school, it is certainly possible that Herndon HS could have space to take on students from Langley, and Langley in turn might be able to accommodate more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

Of course, that all remains to be determined. What is unfortunate, however, is the prospect that people will actively work behind the scenes to kill the construction of a new school simply because they don't want Langley's boundaries even potentially to be revisited, or the idea that nothing can move forward unless Langley, alone among the high schools attended by students living in the western part of the county, receives some sort of iron-clad guarantee ahead of time that it will be scoped out of any future adjustments. No single school community should be allowed to exert such an outsized influence on FCPS decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: I guess you really do not live in northwestern Fairfax County: north Reston, Great Falls, Herndon PO, Vienna PO. Forestville has standard Fairfax County developments like Holly Knoll and Riva Ridge area. Both of these are similar to Shouse Village [Vienna PO] which is the site of Colvin Run.

Forestville also covers a huge swath of Great Falls north of Georgetown Pike that is primarily houses on multi-acre lots (the main exception being right at the Loudoun border -- i.e. Holly Knoll). Geographically, that's much of what people are talking about when they say "look at the map" regarding relative proximity to Herndon and Langley.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: Herndon is being expanded to 2500 seats, so between those additional seats and another 2500 or seats that might be added with a new high school, it is certainly possible that Herndon HS could have space to take on students from Langley, and Langley in turn might be able to accommodate more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

Langley has space today to accommodate "more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

[Anonymous]

The situation with kids who live Centreville and Clifton going to Fairfax is a result of weird boundaries due to all Fairfax City kids attending Fairfax, even though some are closer to Oakton and Woodson, and Madison/Oakton/Fairfax/Woodson being so close to one another. It's also not ideal, as there are families at Fairfax who'd like to send their kids to Centreville, which is closer.

This comment makes no sense at all. Yes, all Fairfax City kids go to Fairfax. But, the reason those kids out near Clifton/Centreville go there is because of the overcrowding at Centreville. Period. Some of them live a mile from Centreville. The next closest school to them is Chantilly, which is also overcrowded. It has nothing to do with Woodson or Oakton.

Herndon is being expanded to 2500 seats, so between those additional seats and another 2500 or seats that might be added with a new high school, it is certainly possible that Herndon HS could have space to take on students from Langley, and Langley in turn might be able to accommodate more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

When and if there is space at Herndon, that could be considered. Right now--or, at least, last year--Herndon has many more kids than Langley.

Of course, that all remains to be determined. What is unfortunate, however, is the prospect that people will actively work behind the scenes to kill the construction of a new school simply because they don't want Langley's boundaries even potentially to be revisited, or the idea that nothing can move forward unless Langley, alone among the high schools attended by students living in the western part of the county, receives some sort of iron-clad guarantee ahead of time that it will be scoped out of any future adjustments. No single school community should be allowed to exert such an outsized influence on FCPS decisions.

I have no idea what the future holds iwth capacity and projections. There are schools that are bursting at the seams--and they are not Langley. My objection to the Hutchison site is traffic mitigation. It would be a horrible place for a high school. I doubt seriously that anyone plans to put a bridge across the toll road to help the traffic pattern and there is nowhere else to go but Elden St which can hardly handle the traffic there at present during commuter hours. With Metro coming, commuter traffic will be worse.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: Herndon is being expanded to 2500 seats, so between those additional seats and another 2500 or seats that might be added with a new high school, it is certainly possible that Herndon HS could have space to take on students from Langley, and Langley in turn might be able to accommodate more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

Langley has space today to accommodate "more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

Great Falls wants it both ways: the GFCA fought to keep Langley under-enrolled because they asserted FCPS's projections under-estimate the future growth that will occur in the Langley pyramid, but then they'll turn around and say Langley can't possibly be part of a future redistricting involving Herndon in the future because it's going to remain below-capacity.

They can play someone like Tholen, who just wants to make her neighbors happy, but at some other School Board members won't be as distracted by Covid-related issues and will figure it out.

[Anonymous]

The situation with kids who live Centreville and Clifton going to Fairfax is a result of weird boundaries due to all Fairfax City kids attending Fairfax, even though some are closer to Oakton and Woodson, and Madison/Oakton/Fairfax/Woodson being so close to one another. It's also not ideal, as there are families at Fairfax who'd like to send their kids to Centreville, which is closer.

You must not be familiar with that area. The kids that go to Fairfax who live a mile from Centreville are NOT Fairfax City residents. Fairfax City is relatively compact. It is true that some live across the street from Woodson but go to Fairfax because they live in Fairfax City. However, this has nothing to do with those who live near Centreville and Chantilly. They do not live in Fairfax City. They go to Fairfax because Centreville and Chantilly are overcrowded. Just as many kids who live near Chantilly go to Oakton.

We will never have perfectly balanced populations in our schools. That would require constant shifting of kids. And, even then, it would not work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

This is just my personal observation/speculation although I’ve been following this topic closely.

1. The possibility of a new school coming to fruition is higher than ever given that it’s going to be on the referendum. This is a tangible action which never happened before.

2. Seems like the Hutchison site is very likely. The CIP MAP shows it and the FPAC has been recommending it.

3. Boundary changes will obviously happen. But this is just one high school and FCPS has more than 25 high schools. I really don’t think the county wide boundary adjustment would happen.

4. Hutchison kids will go to the new school. It’s just too close. That means some relief to Herndon.

5. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Herndon will get Langley kids. Langley was never included as a potentially impacted school in the CIP. Strauss once mentioned that possibility verbally but that’s about it and she is gone.

6. There are some people who want to stick it to Langley by moving Great Falls kids from Langley and moving Tysons (apartment) kids to Langley. There are also some Grear Falls moms on this board who oppose any potential threat to the Langley boundary.

7. Personally I think the high school will get Carson kids plus Hutchison kids giving relief to Herndon, Westfield, South Lakes, and Oakton. Westfield in turn would give relief to Centreville and Chantilly. On the other hand, Herndon will not be able to give releif to Langley. This is because 1) Herndon area is expected to grow fast (look at the town’s development plans), 2) CIP includes only six schools I mentioned but didn’t include Langley, and 3) the political opposition would be too strong.

I guess we’ll see. By the time the new school is built there may have been just as much growth in other parts of the county as Herndon, if not more. And the School Board making the decisions about boundary adjustments will likely be a different group than the current board.

Disagree.

The population growth will be very uneven throughout the county. The student enrollment actually decrease in certain areas. You have to look at the demogrphics and development plans. The county has a significnat development plans across the Silver line. High Hispanic population in Herndon and we all know which group has the highest birth rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

This comment makes no sense at all. Yes, all Fairfax City kids go to Fairfax. But, the reason those kids out near Clifton/Centreville go there is because of the overcrowding at Centreville. Period. Some of them live a mile from Centreville. The next closest school to them is Chantilly, which is also overcrowded. It has nothing to do with Woodson or Oakton.

I understand why you might say this, but you're missing part of the picture. Send the Powell/Willow Springs kids now at Fairfax to Centreville, and Centreville's enrollment - which is around 2600 - easily goes up another 400-500 kids to over 3000, while Fairfax's enrollment would go down the same amount. And Fairfax wouldn't have other areas to pick up because the other kids closer to Fairfax are already attending Woodson and Oakton. It is very much a product of the proximity of multiple high schools near Fairfax and the fact that neither FCPS nor the City of Fairfax want Fairfax HS to be a "runt" school with far fewer kids than other schools in the area.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The situation with kids who live Centreville and Clifton going to Fairfax is a result of weird boundaries due to all Fairfax City kids attending Fairfax, even though some are closer to Oakton and Woodson, and Madison/Oakton/Fairfax/Woodson being so close to one another. It's also not ideal, as there are families at Fairfax who'd like to send their kids to Centreville, which is closer.

You must not be familiar with that area. The kids that go to Fairfax who live a mile from Centreville are NOT Fairfax City residents. Fairfax City is relatively compact. It is true that some live across the street from Woodson but go to Fairfax because they live in Fairfax City. However, this has nothing to do with those who live near Centreville and Chantilly. They do not live in Fairfax City. They go to Fairfax because Centreville and Chantilly are overcrowded. Just as many kids who live near Chantilly go to Oakton.

We will never have perfectly balanced populations in our schools. That would require constant shifting of kids. And, even then, it would not work.

I never said the Willow Springs/Powell kids live in the City of Fairfax. I said the school boundaries generally are shaped by the proximity of multiple schools (in particular, Madison, Oakton, Fairfax, and Woodson), the legal requirement that Fairfax City kids attend Fairfax HS, and the way that it all ends up pushing some of those school boundaries far west. Same thing happens at Oakton, where the boundaries stretch from western Vienna to eastern Herndon (not as wide a swath as Langley, but pretty wide).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here.

This is just my personal observation/speculation although I’ve been following this topic closely.

1. The possibility of a new school coming to fruition is higher than ever given that it’s going to be on the referendum. This is a tangible action which never happened before.

2. Seems like the Hutchison site is very likely. The CIP MAP shows it and the FPAC has been recommending it.

3. Boundary changes will obviously happen. But this is just one high school and FCPS has more than 25 high schools. I really don’t think the county wide boundary adjustment would happen.

4. Hutchison kids will go to the new school. It’s just too close. That means some relief to Herndon.

5. That doesn’t necessarily mean that Herndon will get Langley kids. Langley was never included as a potentially impacted school in the CIP. Strauss once mentioned that possibility verbally but that’s about it and she is gone.

6. There are some people who want to stick it to Langley by moving Great Falls kids from Langley and moving Tysons (apartment) kids to Langley. There are also some Grear Falls moms on this board who oppose any potential threat to the Langley boundary.

7. Personally I think the high school will get Carson kids plus Hutchison kids giving relief to Herndon, Westfield, South Lakes, and Oakton. Westfield in turn would give relief to Centreville and Chantilly. On the other hand, Herndon will not be able to give releif to Langley. This is because 1) Herndon area is expected to grow fast (look at the town’s development plans), 2) CIP includes only six schools I mentioned but didn’t include Langley, and 3) the political opposition would be too strong.

I guess we’ll see. By the time the new school is built there may have been just as much growth in other parts of the county as Herndon, if not more. And the School Board making the decisions about boundary adjustments will likely be a different group than the current board.

Disagree.

The population growth will be very uneven throughout the county. The student enrollment actually decrease in certain areas. You have to look at the demogrphics and development plans. The county has a significnat development plans across the Silver line. High Hispanic population in Herndon and we all know which group has the highest birth rates.

That's too crude an assumption. If you look at the HS that's seen the most growth over the past decade or so, it's probably Marshall, and Marshall has a lower percentage of Hispanic kids than most FCPS pyramids.

As for the development plans, for sure there are plans along the Silver Line extension, but also plans (and actual developments) in other places, including Tysons, West Falls Church, and the Route 1 corridor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The situation with kids who live Centreville and Clifton going to Fairfax is a result of weird boundaries due to all Fairfax City kids attending Fairfax, even though some are closer to Oakton and Woodson, and Madison/Oakton/Fairfax/Woodson being so close to one another. It's also not ideal, as there are families at Fairfax who'd like to send their kids to Centreville, which is closer.

This comment makes no sense at all. Yes, all Fairfax City kids go to Fairfax. But, the reason those kids out near Clifton/Centreville go there is because of the overcrowding at Centreville. Period. Some of them live a mile from Centreville. The next closest school to them is Chantilly, which is also overcrowded. It has nothing to do with Woodson or Oakton.

Herndon is being expanded to 2500 seats, so between those additional seats and another 2500 or seats that might be added with a new high school, it is certainly possible that Herndon HS could have space to take on students from Langley, and Langley in turn might be able to accommodate more students who live closer to the school than the western parts of Great Falls.

When and if there is space at Herndon, that could be considered. Right now--or, at least, last year--Herndon has many more kids than Langley.

Of course, that all remains to be determined. What is unfortunate, however, is the prospect that people will actively work behind the scenes to kill the construction of a new school simply because they don't want Langley's boundaries even potentially to be revisited, or the idea that nothing can move forward unless Langley, alone among the high schools attended by students living in the western part of the county, receives some sort of iron-clad guarantee ahead of time that it will be scoped out of any future adjustments. No single school community should be allowed to exert such an outsized influence on FCPS decisions.

I have no idea what the future holds iwth capacity and projections. There are schools that are bursting at the seams--and they are not Langley. My objection to the Hutchison site is traffic mitigation. It would be a horrible place for a high school. I doubt seriously that anyone plans to put a bridge across the toll road to help the traffic pattern and there is nowhere else to go but Elden St which can hardly handle the traffic there at present during commuter hours. With Metro coming, commuter traffic will be worse.

Hutchison isn’t ideal but where else is there land between it and Carson? Developers have scooped up all the vacant land there and have already started building. Maybe take over the clock tower commercial site? Anywhere they put the HS will make traffic worse. This is Fairfax county!

Also, is it true that Westfields is artificially under capacity? Is the over/under enrollment calculated based on the ideal number for each school (about 2k?) instead of its actual max capacity (3k)?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

This comment makes no sense at all. Yes, all Fairfax City kids go to Fairfax. But, the reason those kids out near Clifton/Centreville go there is because of the overcrowding at Centreville. Period. Some of them live a mile from Centreville. The next closest school to them is Chantilly, which is also overcrowded. It has nothing to do with Woodson or Oakton.

I understand why you might say this, but you're missing part of the picture. Send the Powell/Willow Springs kids now at Fairfax to Centreville, and Centreville's enrollment - which is around 2600 - easily goes up another 400-500 kids to over 3000, while Fairfax's enrollment would go down the same amount. And Fairfax wouldn't have other areas to pick up because the other kids closer to Fairfax are already attending Woodson and Oakton. It is very much a product of the proximity of multiple high schools near Fairfax and the fact that neither FCPS nor the City of Fairfax want Fairfax HS to be a "runt" school with far fewer kids than other schools in the area.

To that same point, in theory, they could move some of the Fairfax kids near Centreville or Clifton (which doesn't have space) to Robinson (which does), but again they haven't done that because they don't want to gut Fairfax's enrollment.

Fairfax City could go the Falls Church City route, take over the Fairfax schools (Fairfax, Johnson, Providence and Daniel's Run) entirely, and just have an independent school system with smaller schools than they have today. That would strain the relations between Fairfax City and Fairfax County, however, and both the city and the county have benefitted from the current arrangement, where FCPS operates Fairfax HS, the school has kids who live in the county as well as the city, and it's a medium-sized high school by FCPS standards as opposed to a much smaller school like George Mason/Meridian in FCC.