MCPS Removes Religious Holiday Designations from School Calendar

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I must admit (even though I am Jewish) the county demographic has changed quite a bit since the 70's when the decision was made. I wonder what the absence rate would be like today if the schools were opened. Unfortunately there is no good way to know and the days are now part of the Union contract too.

It's about 18% Jewish. But of course, just like with Muslims, there are varying levels of practice. My kid is Muslim but I wouldn't keep him home for Eid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I must admit (even though I am Jewish) the county demographic has changed quite a bit since the 70's when the decision was made. I wonder what the absence rate would be like today if the schools were opened. Unfortunately there is no good way to know and the days are now part of the Union contract too.

I really don't think it's student absenteeism driving this. It's staff absenteeism and the inability to have enough subs to cover all classes that need to be covered. MCPS could poll teachers, asking how many would be absent if schools were to open on the Jewish New Year and on Yom Kippur. Not a perfect measure, but at least a start. MCPS should also be transparent about what staff absenteeism percentage would make it unfeasible to open schools.

The days are NOT part of the union contract. The Board of Ed sets the calendar. The union has absolutely no power over when schools are open or closed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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No, but it's an African one, and we must remove race and culture from the picture, too.

b/c you know . . . we're all just human beings

Kwanza is most certainly not an 'African one', you best Wikipedia that one, you are in for a bit of an education on the absolute stupidity of that 'holiday'.

You're right that Kwanzaa isn't an African holiday, any more than Christmas (for example) is a European holiday.

But I honestly don't understand why Kwanzaa is stupider than any other holiday (Christmas, for example).

While a some Europeans celebrate Christmas, kwanza isn't celebrated in Africa. It is an American made holiday.

I am PP who mentioned Africa. Kwanzaa is rooted in African tradition. So while it's NOT tied to any African nation specifically, it celebrates harvest feasts. completely NOT European-based

from the History Channel, as Wiki is not my thing . . .

http://www.history.com/topics/holidays/kwanzaa-history

Dr. Maulana Karenga, professor and chairman of Black Studies at California State University, Long Beach, created Kwanzaa in 1966. After the Watts riots in Los Angeles, Dr. Karenga searched for ways to bring African-Americans together as a community. He founded US, a cultural organization, and started to research African “first fruit” (harvest) celebrations. Karenga combined aspects of several different harvest celebrations, such as those of the Ashanti and those of the Zulu, to form the basis of Kwanzaa.

Dr. Maulana Karenga, aka Ronald Everett had his political opponents murdered and for fun kidnapped stripped and tortured women. As to Kwanzaa, Ronald said; “People think its African, but it’s not. I came up with Kwanzaa because black people in this country wouldn’t celebrate it if they knew it was American. Also, I put it around Christmas because I knew that’s when a lot of bloods would be partying.”

What, no history being taught on the history channel these days??

For those of you who find Kwanzaa and Christmas equivalent as they are 'made up' holidays are nothing but intolerant, close-minded bigots… but what else is new from liberalism??

Even more like the advent of Christmas.....meant to calm down the pagans partying like crazy on Saturnalia.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

For those of you who find Kwanzaa and Christmas equivalent as they are 'made up' holidays are nothing but intolerant, close-minded bigots… but what else is new from liberalism??

I'm trying to figure out how acknowledging that Kwanzaa and Christmas are both made-up holidays demonstrates intolerance, closed-mindedness, and bigotry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I must admit (even though I am Jewish) the county demographic has changed quite a bit since the 70's when the decision was made. I wonder what the absence rate would be like today if the schools were opened. Unfortunately there is no good way to know and the days are now part of the Union contract too.

I really don't think it's student absenteeism driving this. It's staff absenteeism and the inability to have enough subs to cover all classes that need to be covered. MCPS could poll teachers, asking how many would be absent if schools were to open on the Jewish New Year and on Yom Kippur. Not a perfect measure, but at least a start. MCPS should also be transparent about what staff absenteeism percentage would make it unfeasible to open schools.

The days are NOT part of the union contract. The Board of Ed sets the calendar. The union has absolutely no power over when schools are open or closed.

Right, but back in the 1970s there were human beings calling subs one at a time from a list. Now there are a lot more subs and very speedy ways of accessing them, especially for a pre-planned absence.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think probably the stupidest thing in the world is closing but not saying the real reason you are closing.

The real reason MCPS is closing is because there would be a lot of absences on that day if they didn't. Or do you think that MCPS celebrates Christmas?

So what-- are they going to call it "high expected absence day" on the calendar?

Winter Break and Spring Break.

That is the perfect solution. Good for them!

Which, btw, is what DCPS and a zillion other districts around the country already do.

This is not news, people.

Except that MCPS has additional days off that coincide with Jewish high holy days that other local school districts don't -- and they are not necessarily at the same time as the traditional winter break. So while I agree that "winter break" and "spring break" are good terms for the days off that may have originated with Christmas and Easter, this doesn't really address the fact that in MoCo, we get Rosh Hashanna and Yom Kippur off too. If those days coincide with Eid, why can't we just say that? MCPS has already explained that there is an absence threshold for declaring a day off, so unless something changes substantially, we're not likely to get Eid off. So just be honest about why these days have become days off. Frankly, I don't really care one way or another, but I don't like the bashing of either Muslims or Jews over this...speaking as someone who is neither.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated. In DC, the calendar just reads, "No school--HOLIDAY" and perhaps Montgomery County should have gone that route. You can explain until you're blue in the face that the schools close for financial reasons--about 15 percent absenteeism among teachers, principals and staff on the Jewish High Holy Days--so that it makes financial sense to close rather than pay so much for substitute teachers. But I feel for those who don't have childcare on the Jewish holidays, and who might not have a lot of Jewish kids in the school (it's about the teaching staff, not the kids) and are greatly inconvenienced. Starr's suggestion that we just wipe the Jewish holidays off the calendar (but not the Christian ones) was very poor, and opened the door to this "fix."

I'm Jewish, and attended DC public schools, which couldn't care less about Jewish (or any other minority religious) holidays. I missed exams, field trips, important outside visits. When Muslims say, "it's hard when our kids miss school" I HEAR them. I've been there. I do think that Montgomery County acknowledges Muslim holidays by not scheduling important educational events on the holidays (assuming the teachers have sufficient advance notice), but it is a hardship on the kids and you feel ignored and disrespected. I felt that way in DC, and some years, when I heard teachers joking about how few students came to class, I felt that ignoring our High Holy Days was intentionally disrespectful (though it probably wasn't). I wish the board of ed had addressed this, and explained or laid out clear criteria going forward for the level of absenteeism required to close the school. Sure, it will be an arbitrary percentage. Yes, there will be some "fakes" who say they are observing the holiday when they are not. But the criterion for closing can and should be clear. The Smithsonian museums close on one day: Christmas. This doesn't mean they are "observing" Christmas. It means that so few people will come to the museums on that day that it doesn't make sense to open. They're not closing FOR Christmas--they're closing ON Christmas.

Finally, I'm so sorry that the board of ed has unintentionally stirred up so much religious animosity against Muslims, who face enough as it is. And every year I feel defensive and uncomfortable as I explain that the school isn't closing FOR the Jewish holiday, but ON the holiday for financial reasons. Maybe the county should do a survey asking which days the teachers plan to be absent, for religious reasons. Then there would be some data. There would be a little light. As it is, I don't think the heat will die down. The timing doesn't help, either. This becomes folded into the "war on Christmas." Ah, America.

Thanks for your post.

Yes, thanks. It has been depressing reading this thread and all the crap vomited up by the bigots in our county..especially the Italian poster who has graced this DCUM forum with her anti-immigrant bile for a long time. Everything bad, for her, is the fault of brown people -- "illegals" or Muslims. Nice to read a reasonable, thoughtful post in the midst of all the hate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated. In DC, the calendar just reads, "No school--HOLIDAY" and perhaps Montgomery County should have gone that route. You can explain until you're blue in the face that the schools close for financial reasons--about 15 percent absenteeism among teachers, principals and staff on the Jewish High Holy Days--so that it makes financial sense to close rather than pay so much for substitute teachers. But I feel for those who don't have childcare on the Jewish holidays, and who might not have a lot of Jewish kids in the school (it's about the teaching staff, not the kids) and are greatly inconvenienced. Starr's suggestion that we just wipe the Jewish holidays off the calendar (but not the Christian ones) was very poor, and opened the door to this "fix."

I'm Jewish, and attended DC public schools, which couldn't care less about Jewish (or any other minority religious) holidays. I missed exams, field trips, important outside visits. When Muslims say, "it's hard when our kids miss school" I HEAR them. I've been there. I do think that Montgomery County acknowledges Muslim holidays by not scheduling important educational events on the holidays (assuming the teachers have sufficient advance notice), but it is a hardship on the kids and you feel ignored and disrespected. I felt that way in DC, and some years, when I heard teachers joking about how few students came to class, I felt that ignoring our High Holy Days was intentionally disrespectful (though it probably wasn't). I wish the board of ed had addressed this, and explained or laid out clear criteria going forward for the level of absenteeism required to close the school. Sure, it will be an arbitrary percentage. Yes, there will be some "fakes" who say they are observing the holiday when they are not. But the criterion for closing can and should be clear. The Smithsonian museums close on one day: Christmas. This doesn't mean they are "observing" Christmas. It means that so few people will come to the museums on that day that it doesn't make sense to open. They're not closing FOR Christmas--they're closing ON Christmas.

Finally, I'm so sorry that the board of ed has unintentionally stirred up so much religious animosity against Muslims, who face enough as it is. And every year I feel defensive and uncomfortable as I explain that the school isn't closing FOR the Jewish holiday, but ON the holiday for financial reasons. Maybe the county should do a survey asking which days the teachers plan to be absent, for religious reasons. Then there would be some data. There would be a little light. As it is, I don't think the heat will die down. The timing doesn't help, either. This becomes folded into the "war on Christmas." Ah, America.

Thanks for your post.

Yes, thanks. It has been depressing reading this thread and all the crap vomited up by the bigots in our county..especially the Italian poster who has graced this DCUM forum with her anti-immigrant bile for a long time. Everything bad, for her, is the fault of brown people -- "illegals" or Muslims. Nice to read a reasonable, thoughtful post in the midst of all the hate.

+. whoever you are, thank you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated. In DC, the calendar just reads, "No school--HOLIDAY" and perhaps Montgomery County should have gone that route. You can explain until you're blue in the face that the schools close for financial reasons--about 15 percent absenteeism among teachers, principals and staff on the Jewish High Holy Days--so that it makes financial sense to close rather than pay so much for substitute teachers. But I feel for those who don't have childcare on the Jewish holidays, and who might not have a lot of Jewish kids in the school (it's about the teaching staff, not the kids) and are greatly inconvenienced. Starr's suggestion that we just wipe the Jewish holidays off the calendar (but not the Christian ones) was very poor, and opened the door to this "fix."

I'm Jewish, and attended DC public schools, which couldn't care less about Jewish (or any other minority religious) holidays. I missed exams, field trips, important outside visits. When Muslims say, "it's hard when our kids miss school" I HEAR them. I've been there. I do think that Montgomery County acknowledges Muslim holidays by not scheduling important educational events on the holidays (assuming the teachers have sufficient advance notice), but it is a hardship on the kids and you feel ignored and disrespected. I felt that way in DC, and some years, when I heard teachers joking about how few students came to class, I felt that ignoring our High Holy Days was intentionally disrespectful (though it probably wasn't). I wish the board of ed had addressed this, and explained or laid out clear criteria going forward for the level of absenteeism required to close the school. Sure, it will be an arbitrary percentage. Yes, there will be some "fakes" who say they are observing the holiday when they are not. But the criterion for closing can and should be clear. The Smithsonian museums close on one day: Christmas. This doesn't mean they are "observing" Christmas. It means that so few people will come to the museums on that day that it doesn't make sense to open. They're not closing FOR Christmas--they're closing ON Christmas.

Finally, I'm so sorry that the board of ed has unintentionally stirred up so much religious animosity against Muslims, who face enough as it is. And every year I feel defensive and uncomfortable as I explain that the school isn't closing FOR the Jewish holiday, but ON the holiday for financial reasons. Maybe the county should do a survey asking which days the teachers plan to be absent, for religious reasons. Then there would be some data. There would be a little light. As it is, I don't think the heat will die down. The timing doesn't help, either. This becomes folded into the "war on Christmas." Ah, America.

Thanks for your post.

Yes, thanks. It has been depressing reading this thread and all the crap vomited up by the bigots in our county..especially the Italian poster who has graced this DCUM forum with her anti-immigrant bile for a long time. Everything bad, for her, is the fault of brown people -- "illegals" or Muslims. Nice to read a reasonable, thoughtful post in the midst of all the hate.

Weird. The anti-immigrant poster wrote some angry, hateful response to this earlier today and now it's gone. Where did it go?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated. In DC, the calendar just reads, "No school--HOLIDAY" and perhaps Montgomery County should have gone that route. You can explain until you're blue in the face that the schools close for financial reasons--about 15 percent absenteeism among teachers, principals and staff on the Jewish High Holy Days--so that it makes financial sense to close rather than pay so much for substitute teachers. But I feel for those who don't have childcare on the Jewish holidays, and who might not have a lot of Jewish kids in the school (it's about the teaching staff, not the kids) and are greatly inconvenienced. Starr's suggestion that we just wipe the Jewish holidays off the calendar (but not the Christian ones) was very poor, and opened the door to this "fix."

I'm Jewish, and attended DC public schools, which couldn't care less about Jewish (or any other minority religious) holidays. I missed exams, field trips, important outside visits. When Muslims say, "it's hard when our kids miss school" I HEAR them. I've been there. I do think that Montgomery County acknowledges Muslim holidays by not scheduling important educational events on the holidays (assuming the teachers have sufficient advance notice), but it is a hardship on the kids and you feel ignored and disrespected. I felt that way in DC, and some years, when I heard teachers joking about how few students came to class, I felt that ignoring our High Holy Days was intentionally disrespectful (though it probably wasn't). I wish the board of ed had addressed this, and explained or laid out clear criteria going forward for the level of absenteeism required to close the school. Sure, it will be an arbitrary percentage. Yes, there will be some "fakes" who say they are observing the holiday when they are not. But the criterion for closing can and should be clear. The Smithsonian museums close on one day: Christmas. This doesn't mean they are "observing" Christmas. It means that so few people will come to the museums on that day that it doesn't make sense to open. They're not closing FOR Christmas--they're closing ON Christmas.

Finally, I'm so sorry that the board of ed has unintentionally stirred up so much religious animosity against Muslims, who face enough as it is. And every year I feel defensive and uncomfortable as I explain that the school isn't closing FOR the Jewish holiday, but ON the holiday for financial reasons. Maybe the county should do a survey asking which days the teachers plan to be absent, for religious reasons. Then there would be some data. There would be a little light. As it is, I don't think the heat will die down. The timing doesn't help, either. This becomes folded into the "war on Christmas." Ah, America.

Thanks for your post.

Yes, thanks. It has been depressing reading this thread and all the crap vomited up by the bigots in our county..especially the Italian poster who has graced this DCUM forum with her anti-immigrant bile for a long time. Everything bad, for her, is the fault of brown people -- "illegals" or Muslims. Nice to read a reasonable, thoughtful post in the midst of all the hate.

Weird. The anti-immigrant poster wrote some angry, hateful response to this earlier today and now it's gone. Where did it go?

I was wondering the same thing. I assume it was reported and removed.

[Anonymous]

New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated.

Agree that this was horribly,horribly handled. What was the big list of adding another Holiday name on the list of days off if the holiday happened to fall on that day? This would have been such an easy accommodation that non-Muslims would not have cared about at all and Muslims would have felt included.

If Hindus later came up and wanted Diwali listed on the calendar then why would that be a terrify slippery slope? This is an educational system for Christ's sake. We are supposed to be teaching children that there is diversity in our world, people celebrate different faiths and have different cultures.

As it stands now, MCPS just looks racists toward non Christian and Jewish families. Erasing all the holidays just makes it looks that someone MCPS couldn't stand the idea of Christian and Jewish holidays being listed with Muslim holidays, so they'd rather not have any listed.

The only right thing for MCPS to do at this point is to apologize and place the all the holidays on the calendar. Starr could send a nicely worded email to students showing them how he learned a lesson, was wrong, and learned that when you are wrong you can make it right. Of course, this will never happen because Starr can only boast about amazing he is and how people should never say insensitive things to him.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

New poster here. There is so much emotion surrounding this issue, and the decisionmakers failed to see that. They thought it was about listing a Muslim holiday (which was the modest request) but the slippery-slope people said, "But if we do that, we have to list every holiday..." so they took everything off, thus stirring up more anger and even prejudice than anyone anticipated.

Agree that this was horribly,horribly handled. What was the big list of adding another Holiday name on the list of days off if the holiday happened to fall on that day? This would have been such an easy accommodation that non-Muslims would not have cared about at all and Muslims would have felt included.

If Hindus later came up and wanted Diwali listed on the calendar then why would that be a terrify slippery slope? This is an educational system for Christ's sake. We are supposed to be teaching children that there is diversity in our world, people celebrate different faiths and have different cultures.

As it stands now, MCPS just looks racists toward non Christian and Jewish families. Erasing all the holidays just makes it looks that someone MCPS couldn't stand the idea of Christian and Jewish holidays being listed with Muslim holidays, so they'd rather not have any listed.

The only right thing for MCPS to do at this point is to apologize and place the all the holidays on the calendar. Starr could send a nicely worded email to students showing them how he learned a lesson, was wrong, and learned that when you are wrong you can make it right. Of course, this will never happen because Starr can only boast about amazing he is and how people should never say insensitive things to him.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Agree that this was horribly,horribly handled. What was the big list of adding another Holiday name on the list of days off if the holiday happened to fall on that day? This would have been such an easy accommodation that non-Muslims would not have cared about at all and Muslims would have felt included.

If Hindus later came up and wanted Diwali listed on the calendar then why would that be a terrify slippery slope? This is an educational system for Christ's sake. We are supposed to be teaching children that there is diversity in our world, people celebrate different faiths and have different cultures.

As it stands now, MCPS just looks racists toward non Christian and Jewish families. Erasing all the holidays just makes it looks that someone MCPS couldn't stand the idea of Christian and Jewish holidays being listed with Muslim holidays, so they'd rather not have any listed.

The only right thing for MCPS to do at this point is to apologize and place the all the holidays on the calendar. Starr could send a nicely worded email to students showing them how he learned a lesson, was wrong, and learned that when you are wrong you can make it right. Of course, this will never happen because Starr can only boast about amazing he is and how people should never say insensitive things to him.

MCPS can't place ALL the religious holidays on the calendar. Nor should it. There is no need for any religious holidays to be on the calendar.

[Anonymous]

^ except the "special" "American" ones, right?

[Anonymous]

MCPS can't place ALL the religious holidays on the calendar. Nor should it. There is no need for any religious holidays to be on the calendar.

Yet, MCPS has placed religious holidays for Jewish and Christian religions on the calendar all these years. They only removed them to avoid having to list a Muslim holiday. MCPS should apologize and place the Muslim holiday on the calendar. Their response to this whole thing was awful. I'm embarrassed by this school system.