Which college is worth $90k?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

What’s it to you?
Do you think of people who are paying full freight are doing it to “guarantee” a better outcome?

My, your world looks small and dark.

For mc or umc families, that's the expectation.

You don't live in my world (thanks god!) but why don't you explain people pay full freight if you have better explanation

What expectation?
We are MC. No, it wouldn’t be “worth it” to pay 90k a year, because that would mean having to sell my home and move to a crappy apartment.
DC will attend a 90+k school but we are not paying near that much. That is what financial aid and merit aid are for. But if I did make much more money, it would be worth it to me to pay the 90k.
I do not know of any truly MC people making extreme sacrifices to pay 90k a year for their kid’s college. Do you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

Maybe because that price is what it takes to operate the college?

But they teach pretty much the same stuff since decades ago, no?

No, while sure there are subjects that still include material from decades, even centuries ago (would be stupid to teach philosophy w/o Plato etc.) that doesn't mean the curriculum doesn't and hasn't evolved. There are also the labs, libraries and facilities to maintain and grow as well as the campuses. Not to mention these schools financially support literally hundreds of student clubs and activities which are key to student life and making the college experience dynamic. Keep in mind, these are residential colleges, not commuter schools, the students truly live there and doing that well takes resources.

Sure function wise, helping the low SES is good thing but do you think the tuition increase justify that?

Take Stanford for example, and this does not factor in the room and board (which itself is inflated over the years as well), something has changed since pandemic

Stanford University Tuition Increase (Undergraduate Tuition Only)

From publicly compiled data on Stanford’s tuition & fees trends:

Academic Year Tuition & Fees YOY % Change
2015-16 $46,320 —
2016-17 $47,940 +3.5%
2017-18 $49,617 +3.5%
2018-19 $51,354 +3.5%
2019-20 $53,529 +4.24%
2020-21 $56,169 +4.93%
2021-22 $56,169 +0.0% (flat)
2022-23 $58,416 +4.0%
2023-24 $62,484 +6.96%
2024-25 $65,910 +5.48%

That is a different question. The OP asked whether parents paying 90k thought it was worth it (and generally those of us doing so, myself included, have answered yes). You are asking whether the tuition and fee increases that have brought us up to (and over in many cases including at my own kid's Ivy) are fair/justified.
My answer there is probably not, I think the increases have exceeded their cost increases. Some of it clearly is due to having full pay families fund the lower SES students which I am in okay with though I think it is having the unintended consequence of squeezing out the "donut hole" or middle class students (that is where most of the ire on this topic is coming from).

I don’t think this is a different question at all. If it were free, would anyone even be asking this? If education is to serve public good, it should be free.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

Maybe because that price is what it takes to operate the college?

But they teach pretty much the same stuff since decades ago, no?

Do you also think all high schools are created equal since they teach the same classes?

Isn’t that supposed to be the goal—serving the public good? If not, what’s the point of schools? Honestly, most of what we learn here can be learned anywhere in other developed countries. I don’t see a real difference. Truly intelligent kids will take the lead and keep improving themselves, especially now with AI tools.

You could argue that peers matter—and sure, they do—but AI tools already replace a lot of shallow, unintellectual conversation. People with real critical-thinking ability will continue to thrive as technology advances. Knowledge just isn’t geographically or schools (ranking) exclusive anymore.

Is this really your life experience? UMD or MIT, control for SAT, same outcomes?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

What’s it to you?
Do you think of people who are paying full freight are doing it to “guarantee” a better outcome?

My, your world looks small and dark.

For mc or umc families, that's the expectation.

You don't live in my world (thanks god!) but why don't you explain people pay full freight if you have better explanation

What expectation?
We are MC. No, it wouldn’t be “worth it” to pay 90k a year, because that would mean having to sell my home and move to a crappy apartment.
DC will attend a 90+k school but we are not paying near that much. That is what financial aid and merit aid are for. But if I did make much more money, it would be worth it to me to pay the 90k.
I do not know of any truly MC people making extreme sacrifices to pay 90k a year for their kid’s college. Do you?

That's awesome you get fin aid. Like said, I am not interested in how other people send money. I am just curious why it costs 90K+ (for any private). If other countries can provide good quality higher education for lower cost, why can't we.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am not interested in judging how other people spend their money. Showing off wealth is a life style sure.

I am just really curious why college tuition keep increasing yoy, it is not even tied to any performance benchmark.

Sounds like you aren’t interested in looking further than your navel.

Are you really not aware of how these schools spend money and why tuition has gone up?
Low class ratios and nice facilities don’t grow on trees.
Also, much of the student experience is subjective. It isn’t just what you learn, but how you feel about the experience.
Also, remember most kids are not paying full freight. The rich are subsidizing the less-well-off.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

What’s it to you?
Do you think of people who are paying full freight are doing it to “guarantee” a better outcome?

My, your world looks small and dark.

For mc or umc families, that's the expectation.

You don't live in my world (thanks god!) but why don't you explain people pay full freight if you have better explanation

What expectation?
We are MC. No, it wouldn’t be “worth it” to pay 90k a year, because that would mean having to sell my home and move to a crappy apartment.
DC will attend a 90+k school but we are not paying near that much. That is what financial aid and merit aid are for. But if I did make much more money, it would be worth it to me to pay the 90k.
I do not know of any truly MC people making extreme sacrifices to pay 90k a year for their kid’s college. Do you?

That's awesome you get fin aid. Like said, I am not interested in how other people send money. I am just curious why it costs 90K+ (for any private). If other countries can provide good quality higher education for lower cost, why can't we.

There are many good quality institutions that do not cost 90k even as a sticker price. They may not have as shiny of facilities or name recognition, but you can still get a quality education for far less than 90k a year. So why do you care that some college sticker price is 90k, especially since most students don’t pay that much anyway?

The one school I do roll my eyes at is High Point. But even that school is probably “worth it” to some middling kid from a rich family who wants to have a nice college experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am not interested in judging how other people spend their money. Showing off wealth is a life style sure.

I am just really curious why college tuition keep increasing yoy, it is not even tied to any performance benchmark.

Are you saying choice of college is a wealth choice and not brand name purses and Range Rovers/Mercedes/Teslas/Giant McMansions/multi-International vacations?

Because a lot of the people I know that value education sacrifice the latter in order to save and pay for private college for their kids.

A lot of people I know that value education have both.

[Anonymous]

Ok. The "mingling with rich" and "facilities" are the main reasons?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My DC (home on break) is currently an undergrad at an Ivy, we are a full pay family that saved in a 529. Yesterday he told me that thinking back to the college process he now finds it funny that he worried about location, school spirit etc, while it has all of that and he loves it he said was he really loves is the academic environment. He said his professors, the labs, the libraries and all of the other students are inspiring and he feels like he learns and grows every day.
To me that is worth it. . .

That’s great that he is happy, but he could have that same level of satisfaction at countless schools. There is no way to know how he’d feel elsewhere - this isn’t a controlled experiment.

No but over the break he has gotten emails from several of his professors commending his work and it occurred to me that probably wouldn’t have happened if he had gone to one of the public flagships he was also accepted to . . . I leave it to the parents with kids at UVA, Cal etc to chime in and correct me if that is also true of the professors at those schools in regards to undergraduates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok. The "mingling with rich" and "facilities" are the main reasons?

So then it probably answer OP's question sortof, if you want your kids to mingle with rich and enjoy four years of high end day care. Then it's worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. The "mingling with rich" and "facilities" are the main reasons?

So then it probably answer OP's question sortof, if you want your kids to mingle with rich and enjoy four years of high end day care. Then it's worth it.

You’ve described High Point University.

Aside from that, how about some real life examples or better yet data that supports this hypothesis?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

What’s it to you?
Do you think of people who are paying full freight are doing it to “guarantee” a better outcome?

My, your world looks small and dark.

For mc or umc families, that's the expectation.

You don't live in my world (thanks god!) but why don't you explain people pay full freight if you have better explanation

What expectation?
We are MC. No, it wouldn’t be “worth it” to pay 90k a year, because that would mean having to sell my home and move to a crappy apartment.
DC will attend a 90+k school but we are not paying near that much. That is what financial aid and merit aid are for. But if I did make much more money, it would be worth it to me to pay the 90k.
I do not know of any truly MC people making extreme sacrifices to pay 90k a year for their kid’s college. Do you?

That's awesome you get fin aid. Like said, I am not interested in how other people send money. I am just curious why it costs 90K+ (for any private). If other countries can provide good quality higher education for lower cost, why can't we.

There are many good quality institutions that do not cost 90k even as a sticker price. They may not have as shiny of facilities or name recognition, but you can still get a quality education for far less than 90k a year. So why do you care that some college sticker price is 90k, especially since most students don’t pay that much anyway?

The one school I do roll my eyes at is High Point. But even that school is probably “worth it” to some middling kid from a rich family who wants to have a nice college experience.

PP. I am analyzing OP's question [Which college is worth $90k?]
Is it true MOST don't pay that much anyway? Can anyone confirm this? If it is true why do we have huge student debt issues that require forgiveness?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok. The "mingling with rich" and "facilities" are the main reasons?

So then it probably answer OP's question sortof, if you want your kids to mingle with rich and enjoy four years of high end day care. Then it's worth it.

You’ve described High Point University.

Aside from that, how about some real life examples or better yet data that supports this hypothesis?

Data? No, I equally want to know why we need tax payers to bail out student loan.

[Anonymous]

One thing I have noticed in my state is that towns and cities that have a college or university are decent to excellent places to visit or live, and the few that do not have them are kind of sketch.

Even in a worse case scenario if families are just wasting their money on high end daycare with no guaranteed outcome, it could be a public good because these institutions provide many many jobs in the community. Not just faculty, but all kinds of jobs from administrators to support staff and groundskeepers and maintenance people. It has a ripple effect and seems to facilitate general economic well-being and activity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There’s also no way of knowing if a person who is “successful” (again by some subjective measure you decide is meritorious) can attribute that solely due to where they decided to attend college. There are too many complex interacting factors to determine this.

It’s not ethical to promote “exclusivity” by raising prices and selling the illusion that the investment guarantees better outcomes. Still haven't seen the rational explanation on why this price tag

Maybe because that price is what it takes to operate the college?

But they teach pretty much the same stuff since decades ago, no?

No, while sure there are subjects that still include material from decades, even centuries ago (would be stupid to teach philosophy w/o Plato etc.) that doesn't mean the curriculum doesn't and hasn't evolved. There are also the labs, libraries and facilities to maintain and grow as well as the campuses. Not to mention these schools financially support literally hundreds of student clubs and activities which are key to student life and making the college experience dynamic. Keep in mind, these are residential colleges, not commuter schools, the students truly live there and doing that well takes resources.

The vast majority of colleges and universities offer all of these things, and chemistry isn’t different at a 90K per year school vs a state school.