There is no housing crisis in MoCo or most of the DMV for that matter

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

^^ Despite what a PP said earlier, this really is about everyone wanting to live in Bethesda, CC, Arlington, etc. The people complaining about affordable housing know that they can afford to buy a place in Montgomery Village, they just think they're too good for it.

I agree with you but the reason that people want to live in those areas is because of the quality of the schools. That's the uncompleted part of the sentence "affordable housing in the DMV with decent quality schools"

The schools won’t be “good” anymore if the housing is much more affordable. The socioeconomic composition of the schools is the number largest predictor of school performance. Schools cannot change the home environment and school/teacher quality explains less than 10% of the variance in academic performance. Parental background is the most important. This idea that you can magically make low income kids from families with low education have equal outcomes to wealthy families is not based in reality. You might be able to reduce the gap a little bit, but there is no society where these groups have equal outcomes.

I was waiting for it! Keep the poors out of my backyard said explicitly. Never change DCUM, the place where people say the quiet part so loud we keep coming back for more.

It's not the quiet part, out loud. It's just the plain out-loud part. I have heard real people say this in real life, in the context of school boundary changes, with their neighbors in the room.

shhhh, PP doesn't want to be made to feel uncomfortable when faced with cold statistics. feels before reals!

I'm the PP you're responding to directly, and you're right, I felt very uncomfortable when my neighbors were standing up at boundary-study public meetings, explaining that those kids should have to go to that school over there because if they went to this school over here, it would be bad for our property values and our kids' college prospects. It did not make me feel good about my neighbors who said those things, and I have not forgotten that they said those things..

Were they wrong?

Yes, they were. Not just morally, but also empirically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Or you can move out of MoCo, if you don't like MoCo voters, MoCo elected officials, and MoCo housing policies. You can sell your house and have plenty of money left over.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

^^ Despite what a PP said earlier, this really is about everyone wanting to live in Bethesda, CC, Arlington, etc. The people complaining about affordable housing know that they can afford to buy a place in Montgomery Village, they just think they're too good for it.

I agree with you but the reason that people want to live in those areas is because of the quality of the schools. That's the uncompleted part of the sentence "affordable housing in the DMV with decent quality schools"

The schools won’t be “good” anymore if the housing is much more affordable. The socioeconomic composition of the schools is the number largest predictor of school performance. Schools cannot change the home environment and school/teacher quality explains less than 10% of the variance in academic performance. Parental background is the most important. This idea that you can magically make low income kids from families with low education have equal outcomes to wealthy families is not based in reality. You might be able to reduce the gap a little bit, but there is no society where these groups have equal outcomes.

I was waiting for it! Keep the poors out of my backyard said explicitly. Never change DCUM, the place where people say the quiet part so loud we keep coming back for more.

It's not the quiet part, out loud. It's just the plain out-loud part. I have heard real people say this in real life, in the context of school boundary changes, with their neighbors in the room.

shhhh, PP doesn't want to be made to feel uncomfortable when faced with cold statistics. feels before reals!

I'm the PP you're responding to directly, and you're right, I felt very uncomfortable when my neighbors were standing up at boundary-study public meetings, explaining that those kids should have to go to that school over there because if they went to this school over here, it would be bad for our property values and our kids' college prospects. It did not make me feel good about my neighbors who said those things, and I have not forgotten that they said those things..

Were they wrong?

Yes, they were. Not just morally, but also empirically.

Really? Show me the evidence. Show me there is no relationship between community demographics and student performance and achievement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

^^ Despite what a PP said earlier, this really is about everyone wanting to live in Bethesda, CC, Arlington, etc. The people complaining about affordable housing know that they can afford to buy a place in Montgomery Village, they just think they're too good for it.

I agree with you but the reason that people want to live in those areas is because of the quality of the schools. That's the uncompleted part of the sentence "affordable housing in the DMV with decent quality schools"

The schools won’t be “good” anymore if the housing is much more affordable. The socioeconomic composition of the schools is the number largest predictor of school performance. Schools cannot change the home environment and school/teacher quality explains less than 10% of the variance in academic performance. Parental background is the most important. This idea that you can magically make low income kids from families with low education have equal outcomes to wealthy families is not based in reality. You might be able to reduce the gap a little bit, but there is no society where these groups have equal outcomes.

I was waiting for it! Keep the poors out of my backyard said explicitly. Never change DCUM, the place where people say the quiet part so loud we keep coming back for more.

It's not the quiet part, out loud. It's just the plain out-loud part. I have heard real people say this in real life, in the context of school boundary changes, with their neighbors in the room.

shhhh, PP doesn't want to be made to feel uncomfortable when faced with cold statistics. feels before reals!

I'm the PP you're responding to directly, and you're right, I felt very uncomfortable when my neighbors were standing up at boundary-study public meetings, explaining that those kids should have to go to that school over there because if they went to this school over here, it would be bad for our property values and our kids' college prospects. It did not make me feel good about my neighbors who said those things, and I have not forgotten that they said those things..

Were they wrong?

Yes, they were. Not just morally, but also empirically.

Really? Show me the evidence. Show me there is no relationship between community demographics and student performance and achievement.

If you want to stand up at public meetings and say you don't want poor people in the neighborhood you live in or the schools your kids go to, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Or you can move out of MoCo, if you don't like MoCo voters, MoCo elected officials, and MoCo housing policies. You can sell your house and have plenty of money left over.

Yeah, see how well it goes for you when you drive out high earners and cater entirely towards importing poverty into the county.

Have fun trying to pay for all of your progress, lol.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Or you can move out of MoCo, if you don't like MoCo voters, MoCo elected officials, and MoCo housing policies. You can sell your house and have plenty of money left over.

Yeah, see how well it goes for you when you drive out high earners and cater entirely towards importing poverty into the county.

Have fun trying to pay for all of your progress, lol.

I'm feeling fine, thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

^^ Despite what a PP said earlier, this really is about everyone wanting to live in Bethesda, CC, Arlington, etc. The people complaining about affordable housing know that they can afford to buy a place in Montgomery Village, they just think they're too good for it.

I agree with you but the reason that people want to live in those areas is because of the quality of the schools. That's the uncompleted part of the sentence "affordable housing in the DMV with decent quality schools"

The schools won’t be “good” anymore if the housing is much more affordable. The socioeconomic composition of the schools is the number largest predictor of school performance. Schools cannot change the home environment and school/teacher quality explains less than 10% of the variance in academic performance. Parental background is the most important. This idea that you can magically make low income kids from families with low education have equal outcomes to wealthy families is not based in reality. You might be able to reduce the gap a little bit, but there is no society where these groups have equal outcomes.

I was waiting for it! Keep the poors out of my backyard said explicitly. Never change DCUM, the place where people say the quiet part so loud we keep coming back for more.

It's not the quiet part, out loud. It's just the plain out-loud part. I have heard real people say this in real life, in the context of school boundary changes, with their neighbors in the room.

shhhh, PP doesn't want to be made to feel uncomfortable when faced with cold statistics. feels before reals!

I'm the PP you're responding to directly, and you're right, I felt very uncomfortable when my neighbors were standing up at boundary-study public meetings, explaining that those kids should have to go to that school over there because if they went to this school over here, it would be bad for our property values and our kids' college prospects. It did not make me feel good about my neighbors who said those things, and I have not forgotten that they said those things..

Were they wrong?

Yes, they were. Not just morally, but also empirically.

Really? Show me the evidence. Show me there is no relationship between community demographics and student performance and achievement.

If you want to stand up at public meetings and say you don't want poor people in the neighborhood you live in or the schools your kids go to, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you.

Most poor people know this is true and agree with the earlier poster. It’s why they leave poor neighborhoods once they are no longer poor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Actually, there are homes in Moco for about $400K, and townhouses for even less, so people don't even need to move. It's just that people think they're entitled to a brand new home in Bethesda that looks like what they see on HGTV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Actually, there are homes in Moco for about $400K, and townhouses for even less, so people don't even need to move. It's just that people think they're entitled to a brand new home in Bethesda that looks like what they see on HGTV.

Is there only one "There's no housing crisis! It's just that people think they're entitled to a brand new home in Bethesda that looks like what they see on HGTV!" poster or are there multiple posters? I might need to add it to the bingo card I use during public meetings about housing.

[Anonymous]

Most of Moco is actually very cheap once you get about 25 minutes outside the beltway.

Not many places that are less than an hour outside a major global city where you can buy SFHs for under 500k. There are TONS in Germantown, Montgomery Village, Laytonville, Damascus, etc

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Or you can move out of MoCo, if you don't like MoCo voters, MoCo elected officials, and MoCo housing policies. You can sell your house and have plenty of money left over.

Yeah, see how well it goes for you when you drive out high earners and cater entirely towards importing poverty into the county.

Have fun trying to pay for all of your progress, lol.

The politics that are driving out high earners were birthed by the housing crisis. The high earners wanted a bunch of low wage workers to mow their lawns, make their food and clean their houses on the cheap. They are now reaping the conditions they have sown over a generation. For all the education and high income, the county lacks actual smart people.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Agree, just a bunch of woke liberals trying to shatter the “American Dream” of single family home ownership. Trying to cast it as “racist” and a product of some imaginary “privilege”.

Work, save, buy a condo or townhome as a starter, build equity, move on to a single family home. People have done it for years.

This is the "boomer" response whether one is a boomer or not. 2024 MoCo is not the same as even 2004 MoCo, let alone 1974. Housing is less affordable than its ever been and young people start life with more debt than ever before.

We talked stats up-thread, and the median MoCo household has at best a tenuous path to homeownership. The American Dream used to be a broadly shared dream. It now is out of reach for perhaps half of the county's population, and shrinking. If its not yet a crisis, its heading in that direction.

So move out of moco. Not hard. You can buy homes in Indiana for under $200k.

Actually, there are homes in Moco for about $400K, and townhouses for even less, so people don't even need to move. It's just that people think they're entitled to a brand new home in Bethesda that looks like what they see on HGTV.

+100

Yup.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Most of Moco is actually very cheap once you get about 25 minutes outside the beltway.

Not many places that are less than an hour outside a major global city where you can buy SFHs for under 500k. There are TONS in Germantown, Montgomery Village, Laytonville, Damascus, etc

That's funny, because I just checked Redfin, and they have zero (0) listings in Montgomery Village for SFHs under 500k. Germantown has one (1), listed at $400,000 which is a short sale. Laytonsville has one (1), listed at $499,900. Damascus has zero (0). I can't check etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

^^ Despite what a PP said earlier, this really is about everyone wanting to live in Bethesda, CC, Arlington, etc. The people complaining about affordable housing know that they can afford to buy a place in Montgomery Village, they just think they're too good for it.

I agree with you but the reason that people want to live in those areas is because of the quality of the schools. That's the uncompleted part of the sentence "affordable housing in the DMV with decent quality schools"

The schools won’t be “good” anymore if the housing is much more affordable. The socioeconomic composition of the schools is the number largest predictor of school performance. Schools cannot change the home environment and school/teacher quality explains less than 10% of the variance in academic performance. Parental background is the most important. This idea that you can magically make low income kids from families with low education have equal outcomes to wealthy families is not based in reality. You might be able to reduce the gap a little bit, but there is no society where these groups have equal outcomes.

I was waiting for it! Keep the poors out of my backyard said explicitly. Never change DCUM, the place where people say the quiet part so loud we keep coming back for more.

It's not the quiet part, out loud. It's just the plain out-loud part. I have heard real people say this in real life, in the context of school boundary changes, with their neighbors in the room.

shhhh, PP doesn't want to be made to feel uncomfortable when faced with cold statistics. feels before reals!

I'm the PP you're responding to directly, and you're right, I felt very uncomfortable when my neighbors were standing up at boundary-study public meetings, explaining that those kids should have to go to that school over there because if they went to this school over here, it would be bad for our property values and our kids' college prospects. It did not make me feel good about my neighbors who said those things, and I have not forgotten that they said those things..

Were they wrong?

Yes, they were. Not just morally, but also empirically.

Really? Show me the evidence. Show me there is no relationship between community demographics and student performance and achievement.

If you want to stand up at public meetings and say you don't want poor people in the neighborhood you live in or the schools your kids go to, go right ahead. Nobody is stopping you.

You’re so empirical it’s overwhelming. Here’s what I want to see. The same student and family in different districts and their relative performance. We are told all the time that low performing demo groups need to have access to high performing districts to improve outcomes for these low performing demos. So does it go both ways?

We’ve been told rep

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of Moco is actually very cheap once you get about 25 minutes outside the beltway.

Not many places that are less than an hour outside a major global city where you can buy SFHs for under 500k. There are TONS in Germantown, Montgomery Village, Laytonville, Damascus, etc

That's funny, because I just checked Redfin, and they have zero (0) listings in Montgomery Village for SFHs under 500k. Germantown has one (1), listed at $400,000 which is a short sale. Laytonsville has one (1), listed at $499,900. Damascus has zero (0). I can't check etc.

Huh? I’m literally looking in Redfin right now and there are many options under $500k. If someone doesn’t want to move that far out there are options in aspen hill/wheaton too. If they want somewhere with “better schools” then there are apartments and condos available. Most of the new construction close in is the latter anyway. There are trade offs to living in this area, if you want the cheap big house on an acre then this isn’t the place for you.