Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"?

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

This is a very good point I think. Respect begets respect. That's impossible to do if you think yours is is the one "true" religion and the others are myths or false.

Sounds exactly like DCUM's atheists, including OP, who think they have the one "true" understanding so that makes it OK to insult people of faith.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

[Anonymous]

Yes, it’s insulting.

[Anonymous]

DP. I just don't attach a negative connotation to the word "myth."
To the Greeks and Romans their religion and their deities were very real.
Just like the Jews, Muslims and Christians today who believe their God is very real (note I used the upper case out of respect).
Still all these religions all grew out of myth, and most intelligent religious people are able to understand that without being insulted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:From now on, so as not to offend anyone -- I'l use God/god. So does anyone think the God/god depicted in Genesis is anything other than myth? If so, how do you characterize it?

DP, but you know that when you're referring to "the God depicted in Genesis" you're talking about the specific God that is capitalized. So it should just be God there, not "God/god."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:From now on, so as not to offend anyone -- I'l use God/god. So does anyone think the God/god depicted in Genesis is anything other than myth? If so, how do you characterize it?

DP, but you know that when you're referring to "the God depicted in Genesis" you're talking about the specific God that is capitalized. So it should just be God there, not "God/god."

"the god" I think can be lower case, but I'm not an English major. If you're saying God created the heavens and earth, then yes, upper case.

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

You asked this very same question with almost identical wording just a few posts ago. To save time, here's the answer you got:

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

You asked this very same question with almost identical wording just a few posts ago. To save time, here's the answer you got:

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

I’ll keep asking if you keep avoiding. You can[ give someone else a chance if you refuse to answer.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DP. I just don't attach a negative connotation to the word "myth."
To the Greeks and Romans their religion and their deities were very real.
Just like the Jews, Muslims and Christians today who believe their God is very real (note I used the upper case out of respect).
Still all these religions all grew out of myth, and most intelligent religious people are able to understand that without being insulted.

OP, 18:29 on the previous page, and maybe 1-2 other atheists are framing the issue differently. They are insisting on their right to call religion "myth" to the face of Jews, Muslims and Christians today.

Some atheist tried to kick off a discussion about how Genesis is a myth, so therefore all of it is a myth. But that's irrelevant. All that matters is that many people today believe their religion is true, so calling it a myth to their faces or on DCUM is insulting.

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

You asked this very same question with almost identical wording just a few posts ago. To save time, here's the answer you got:

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

I’ll keep asking if you keep avoiding. You can[ give someone else a chance if you refuse to answer.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

Good Lord, how was that response not clear? Of course atheists deserve respect. EXCEPT when they're being deliberately abusive in person or on DCUM. Calling religion "myth" and "manmade" falls into the category of insults.

We're criticizing your BEHAVIOR not your position on religion. Hope the caps help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I just don't attach a negative connotation to the word "myth."
To the Greeks and Romans their religion and their deities were very real.
Just like the Jews, Muslims and Christians today who believe their God is very real (note I used the upper case out of respect).
Still all these religions all grew out of myth, and most intelligent religious people are able to understand that without being insulted.

OP, 18:29 on the previous page, and maybe 1-2 other atheists are framing the issue differently. They are insisting on their right to call religion "myth" to the face of Jews, Muslims and Christians today.

Some atheist tried to kick off a discussion about how Genesis is a myth, so therefore all of it is a myth. But that's irrelevant. All that matters is that many people today believe their religion is true, so calling it a myth to their faces or on DCUM is insulting.

If you don’t see a difference between in person and on an anonymous forum when you have no idea who is reading… wow that’s very odd to me.

I am asking if people who think all religions are myths get any respect and can say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DP. I just don't attach a negative connotation to the word "myth."
To the Greeks and Romans their religion and their deities were very real.
Just like the Jews, Muslims and Christians today who believe their God is very real (note I used the upper case out of respect).
Still all these religions all grew out of myth, and most intelligent religious people are able to understand that without being insulted.

OP, 18:29 on the previous page, and maybe 1-2 other atheists are framing the issue differently. They are insisting on their right to call religion "myth" to the face of Jews, Muslims and Christians today.

Some atheist tried to kick off a discussion about how Genesis is a myth, so therefore all of it is a myth. But that's irrelevant. All that matters is that many people today believe their religion is true, so calling it a myth to their faces or on DCUM is insulting.

If you don’t see a difference between in person and on an anonymous forum when you have no idea who is reading… wow that’s very odd to me.

I am asking if people who think all religions are myths get any respect and can say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs ?

So you're saying, "I insult people on DCUM because I'm anonymous so I can get away with it." Got it.

You've received multiple answers that it's your behavior that's the problem, not your stance on religion. Maybe take this advice on board?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

You asked this very same question with almost identical wording just a few posts ago. To save time, here's the answer you got:

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

I’ll keep asking if you keep avoiding. You can[ give someone else a chance if you refuse to answer.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

Good Lord, how was that response not clear? Of course atheists deserve respect. EXCEPT when they're being deliberately abusive in person or on DCUM. Calling religion "myth" and "manmade" falls into the category of insults.

We're criticizing your BEHAVIOR not your position on religion. Hope the caps help.

But what if I believe the religion you happen to believe in is also a myth, just as you think Zeus is?

I’ll save you he trouble since ]you clearly won’t answer honestly. You think that your beliefs deserve special consideration. That’s a position you are entitled to, but it makes you a hypocrite.

And that’s the point.

So we can stop now.

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Anonymous wrote:I have asked these questions every time someone claims a non-believer is "insulting" and no one replies. Another PP suggested its own thread so here it is:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?

2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?

3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Thoughtful replies only, please. If you don't like the questions you don't have to respond at all. However all views are welcome as long as they are thoughtful and not trolls or insults.

I think it is because the questions aren’t really asked in good faith. Good faith conversations would use proper capitalization of proper nouns, for example. Your studious refusal to capitalize “God” is exhibit one of your trolling. And trolling is insulting.

DP -- I would guess that you, pp, are religious, and in your religion, "God" is one being who comes with a capital letter. Not all sentences are contructed this way and people are not being inherently insulting when they do not capitalize the word "god" in a sentence. Perhaps you could be more open-minded about that, assuming that you can be accepting of differing religious views.

No, I am not religious, actually. But I am an editor and the Christian “God” I reasonably infer is being discussed in this context is capitalized as a proper noun. People who act in good faith and want a respectful discussion generally abide by norms such as grammar. It’s kind of like a conservative who wants a conversation about “democrat” policies (instead of Democratic) or liberals who refer to “rethuglicans.” The premise is undercut by the presentation. It’s not hard to capitalize “God” in this context if you are genuinely interested in an answer — studiously refusing to do is a red flag from the start.

Thanks for the explanation. "Studiously refusing to do so" is different from not knowing. I didn't know and I wouldn't be surprised if some religious people didn't know and didn't notice.

Also, it seems like mind reading to infer that pp is not acting in good faith. And, even as a non-editor, it seems to me that not capitalizing God is not the same as using the made-up, purposely insulting term "rethuglicans".

I disagree. Given context of the premise it is purposefully insulting to not capitalize God in this context. Ignorance is no excuse because if you really want to have a good-faith discussion you should do a bare minimum of research. You’re completely full of shit and trying to stir the pot under a guise of civility.

Well, clearly pp is not being civil. I sure hope this is not the editor.

It is me, the editor. I don’t care whether or not you think I am being civil. I called out OP for posing a question in bad faith. The premise is rejected. You can’t act in bad faith and demand civility and clutch pearls that others don’t abide by your parameters. OP got called out. OP can sit down now.

I am the OP, and I did not post this question in bad faith. You made that up with no evidence and you are 100% wrong.

I do fully understand how you might reject the premise since you don’t seem to have a good answer to it.

My post speaks for itself, as do yours.

DP. Gawd DCUM’s atheists are boring and uncreative. In your post you simply recapped what you or someone else has been pushing for a few weeks, that the god of monotheists/people of the book is the same as Zeus. (And yes I too clocked the lower-case God in reference to a specific God not a generic god.) Nobody bothered to answer something so childish so you thought you’d try to start a thread about it. Yawn Zzzzzzzzz.

No. You are dishonest. I asked if it was offensive to compare them and why. I also asked if people viewed one god as mythical but not another and why.

If you are bored, stay out of the discussion please. Your white noise and lies will not deter an interesting conversation.

No, using the word “compare” doesn’t paper over your bad faith intent, as evidenced by your lack of capitalization as someone else pointed out. If you think you’re convincing us otherwise, either you have no respect for your readers’ intelligence or you just don’t get it yourself.

Anyway, thanks for treating us to yet another of your ad hominem-ridden, stiffly self-important screeds.

Whether it's insulting to use the upper case or lower case "G/g" when discussing God/god is another thread, right? I understand how some do consider it disrespectful. But the reason it's done is that some posters, including myself, don't venerate one particular god over the others. There are so many. So explain if you would why the upper case should always be used. Isn't it an open question whether there is only one "God" or many "gods".

The atheist editor already explained it to you. Why do you need it explained a second time?

If you want a constructive discussion with republicans, you don’t lead by calling them “rethuglicans” or “magats.” If you want a constructive discussion with liberals, you don’t refer to the “democrat” party.

This is very basic.

well don't discuss it then if you don't like the use of the lower case "g." I don't see why we should venerate any one of these many different gods over another.

Translation: I know I’m insulting people, because several posters have explained it to me, but I’m going to keep doing it.

^^^ The definition of bad faith arguing

? why should I capitulate to you. And where do you get off telling people that they have to exalt your spelling of your supernatural entity over any others'?

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

+1000

That's because you've got nothing to say. You never do.

:roll: You just don't want to hear it.

I really do. But you've never contributed anything substantive ever; just criticized the OP's choice of words, and call people sea lion, gish galloping etc.

You have no idea who I am or what I've contributed to this thread. As the moderator can verify, it's been substantive. All you're proving is that, when you have no response, you resort to insults.

Let's repost the atheist editor's comment that you're so desperate to get away from:

PP doesn’t dictate grammar, OP. Those conventions were decided and codified long ago by a collective and adopted as commonly accepted usage. Deliberately violating that commonly accepted usage under the guise of asking a question is inherently disingenuous, if not a provocation. You don’t want a conversation. You want a fight and you’re trying to reset a playing field long established by neutral arbiters. As a result, nothing you say from that point on has validity or really is worthy of discussion.

Are you talking about the lowercase G?

Look up the word god in any of the online dictionaries and look at all the lower case examples and then come back and tell me that it’s commonly accepted to always capitalize it

I’ll wait.

She's an editor. What are your qualifications? And do you even know the difference between generic "gods" and specific "God"?

I'll wait.[/quote

]

My qualifications are I can read a dictionary and I am educated enough to trust the qualifications of the folks who[ create those, since they all seem to agree. But not agree with you.

You also disagree with Grammarly. Which assuredly has better qualifications than your basic ability to read.

Since you insist - please note all include frequent lowercase usage except when referring to a specific god, which I do not do:

Dictionary.com

god
[ god ]SHOW IPA


See synonyms for god on Thesaurus.com
noun
one of several deities, especially a male deity, presiding over some portion of worldly affairs.: Compare goddess (def. 1).

an image of a deity; an idol.

SEE MORE
verb (used with object),god·ded, god·ding.
to regard or treat as a god; deify; idolize.

Cambridge Dictionary:

god
noun [ C ]
US /ɡɑːd/ UK /ɡɒd/
god noun [C] (SPIRIT)
Add to word list
B2
a spirit or being believed to control some part of the universe or life and often worshiped for doing so, or something that represents this spirit or being:
the ancient Greek gods and goddesses
Fewer examples
The site was named after a Norse god.
Their sacred dance is performed to invoke ancient gods.
The children enjoyed the stories about the gods and goddesses of Greek and Roman myth.
The gods smiled on us and we had brilliant sunshine throughout the day.
In the various regions of India, Hindus worship different gods and observe different religious festivals.

Brittanica:

god /ˈgɑːd/ noun
plural gods
Britannica Dictionary definition of GOD
1
God [singular]
a : the perfect and all-powerful spirit or being that is worshipped especially by Christians, Jews, and Muslims as the one who created and rules the universe
Does she believe in God?
(May) God bless us all.
(May) God rest her soul. [=I pray that God will give her soul peace now that she has died]
I pray to God that no one was seriously injured in the accident.
— see also man of god
b
◊ God is used informally by itself and in phrases to make a statement or question more forceful or to express surprise, anger, etc. These uses are common but are considered offensive by some people.
God, it's hot out today.
Good God, that's a lot of food!
God Almighty, is it that late already?
[+] more examples
2
[count] : a spirit or being that has great power, strength, knowledge, etc., and that can affect nature and the lives of people : one of various spirits or beings worshipped in some religions
the gods and goddesses of ancient Egypt
a Hindu god
a myth about the god of war
an offering for the gods
— often used informally to suggest that what happens to someone is controlled by gods or by luck
The gods smiled/frowned on us. = The gods were/weren't on our side. [=we had good/bad luck; things went well/badly for us]
(humorous) The golf gods seem to like you today. [=you are playing golf very well today]
Her sudden arrival was a gift from the gods. [=a very lucky and helpful thing]
3
[count]
a : a person and especially a man who is greatly loved or admired
a professor who was regarded as a kind of god
a guitar god like Jimi Hendrix
b : a person who is very important or powerful in a particular field — usually plural
a talented writer who never found favor with the gods of the literary world
4
[singular] : something that is regarded as one of the most important things in someone's life
He made a god of money. [=he worshipped money; he regarded money as more important than it really is]
5
the gods British : the highest and cheapest seats in a theater
The people in the gods can be the hardest to please.


vocabulary.com

god Share
/gɑd/
/gɒd/
Other forms: gods

A god is a supreme being or deity, and it's spelled with a lowercase g when you're not referring to the God of Christian, Jewish, or Muslim tradition. The ancient Greeks had many gods — including Zeus, Apollo, and Poseidon.

A physical representation of a deity is also called a god. If you go to Hawaii, you can even buy a god in a gift shop — a statue or idol that represents one of the Hawaiian gods, like a figure of the god Pele. The word god also refers to a man of superior quality or exceptional beauty. Elvis Presley was considered a god by many teenage girls in the late 1950s.

Definitions of god
noun any supernatural being worshipped as controlling some part of the world or some aspect of life or who is the personification of a force
synonyms:deity, divinity, immortal
see more
noun a man of such superior qualities that he seems like a deity to other people
“he was a god among men”
see more
noun a material effigy that is worshipped
“money was his god”
synonyms:graven image, idol


Bottom line: lowercase g god not offensive and common, UNLESS you pre-suppose the existence of your god, which is exactly what you are doing.

It's also why YOU WON'T ANSWER IF YOU THINK ZEUS IS A MYTH.

Because you are a hypocrite.

OMG, your own extensive cites undermine you and you don't even realize it. Your cites all use "god" to refer to generic, unspecified gods, and "God" to refer to specific deities. Guess which OP was referring to? You got it, OP was referring to the Judeo-Christian God and should have used the grammatically-correct capital G.

Nobody is going down an OT rabbit hole with you about Zeus. Don't be an absolute troll.

I am the OP, and I was not referring to the Judeo-Christian god or any other specific god. I assure you of that.

In fact, that was what made me curious- is it insulting to refer to any god as mythical, since someone believes in them.

You’ve educated me that people only are offended when they think it is their god referred to in that way. This is hypocrisy and you know it, which is why you won’t answer the question about Zeus. You’re fine with him being referred to as myth, since you don’t believe in him, right?

Please. You wrote:

1. Is it "insulting" to refer to god as "mythical"? Why?
2. Is it insulting to compare a god to another god or mythical being knowing people who believe in one don't believe in the other? Why?
3. Those of you who believe in one god: do you think the other gods are "mythical"? Why?

Others have pointed out that you were clearly referring to the Judeo-Christian God, especially in 1. and 3.

And no, you're not going to stir us into slagging off other peoples' religions. Get a grip.

Please tell me where that post refers to the judeo Christian god?

Please tell me what in that post would stop you from applying it to any god?

Answer: nowhere and nothing.

I know YOU presupposed it to be the god you believe in, but I 100% intended it to be generic and relative. The fact that other people made the same incorrect assumption as you does not make it any more accurate.

Because this thread is not about god. It’s about PEOPLE, and how we are expected to communicate with each other.

So please answer the question as to whether you refer to Zeus as a myth.

I know you won’t. And I know why.

Do you want to know why people won't talk about Zeus? Because you're a tedious pot-stirrer.

Multiple posters including an atheist told you that calling religion a myth is insulting. You keep trying to squirrel away from this simple fact by stomping your feet and demanding to talk about Genesis, the Gospels and Zeus. Sorry, if somebody says they're insulted, that's sufficient.

But you have no problems calling other gods myths.

That is the point. Your hypocrisy.

You have no idea who I am or what I’ve said on this thread.

Your tendency to lump everybody who disagrees with you into one big believer bogeyman is another problem for conducting thoughtful conversations in this forum.

Your right. I have no idea because you won’t say. So you leave me with nothing but speculation.

So clear it up for me with a simple answer.

Do you refer to Zeus as a myth?

*You're right

You are so bizarre. Also, you apparently agree that "myth" is insulting, so thanks for that.

If I were talking to somebody who believed in Zeus, I would never call their religion a "myth." It's called COMMON RESPECT. It's about relationships. It has absolutely nothing to do with what I think or don't think about Zeus. It's about the RESPECT angle and you should try it on DCUM sometime.

To be clear, I do not think that the term myth is insulting. That’s why I don’t think you should be offended when I use it.

My point is you do think it’s insulting, but you use it also just not for what you believe in and that makes you a hypocrite.

Weird takeaway as I said the exact opposite. I was very clear that I wouldn't use the word "myth" with anybody who actually believes in Zeus.

Merriam-Webster disagrees with you as to the insult potential of the term "myth," as shown above where one of the accepted definitions is "an unfounded or false notion." So you can stop feigning innocence now.

How about this: treat people with respect and in line with generally accepted language conventions.

Sure. What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

And remember I am speaking of here in an anonymous forum and not person to person.

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

You asked this very same question with almost identical wording just a few posts ago. To save time, here's the answer you got:

I haven't seen anybody make blanket statements about atheism without you provoking them first by, for example, calling religion myth or believers dumb. When you get no respect, it's because you've said something obnoxious or hateful and people are pushing back against that specifically.

So, you'll get respect on DCUM when you learn to show respect on DCUM.

You'll need to explain why you think respect works differently on an anonymous forum vs. in person.

I’ll keep asking if you keep avoiding. You can[ give someone else a chance if you refuse to answer.

What about people who think all religions are myths. Do they get any respect? Do they get to say their beliefs or do they have to be quiet and let others say theirs out of respect?

Good Lord, how was that response not clear? Of course atheists deserve respect. EXCEPT when they're being deliberately abusive in person or on DCUM. Calling religion "myth" and "manmade"falls into the category of insults.

We're criticizing your BEHAVIOR not your position on religion. Hope the caps help.

What? Religion is man made. How is that even an open to discussion? If it isn't, I'd like to hear your alternative explanation.