Did Dr. McKnight's antiracist speech fall flat?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaways were they’re going to bring in experts, more teacher training, and engage with the community. So yeah, basically more of nothing.

It would be nice if they could pivot to education and focus on reading and math.

Interestingly, they continue to fall short despite how much time they dedicate to math and reading at the elementary level.

They need to group by ability and switch classrooms for math and reading.

One of my kids was lucky enough to be placed in a “smart kid” cohort for grades 3-5 where the entire class is accelerated for math and reading. Class size is smaller than the others. I suspect mcps is studying them but im not sure. Anyway, that kid has received a far superior education than my others who weren’t in such a cohort. Instead they received the allegedly accelerated curriculum while shifting through groups within the same classroom as the teacher struggled to meet the needs of kids at various levels…which serves no one well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

I think I kind of get what you're talking about and it is most definitely a nuanced and layered issues that has more to do with generations, immigrant POV, etc.

But again, some Hispanic communities are quite literally both: Black and Hispanic. Think Dominican Republic, huge swaths of Puerto Rico, Colombia, Panama, etc.

And you're right, there is variance depending on the Hispanic country the family is immigrating from. Peru, for example, does not have a large black population. So they might be more hesitant to identify and mix with blacks.

In general, most immigrant families want their kids to carry on the legacy and stick to their own. I've seen the exact same scenario you described play out when kids from brown immigrant families marry white people too. It has more to do with the foreigner status and the families not wanting their kids to break with that. But usually, as you pointed out in your own example, it's something they get over in the long run.

But yeah, there is no fundamental racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics. On the contrary, there's a long history of community and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics. In fact, that community and collaboration is what gave birth to Hip-Hop in NYC, which was started by black and Hispanics kids in New York City in the 1970s....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

Oh and one comment I did take issue with above is the comment that Hispanic/Latinos don't care about education.

Again drawing my experience from that family. There are indeed Hispanic/Latinos that do care about education, just like anyone else.

But there's a lot of issues related to access, opportunity, etc.

So you can't paint a broad stroke over any particular group.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

I think I kind of get what you're talking about and it is most definitely a nuanced and layered issues that has more to do with generations, immigrant POV, etc.

But again, some Hispanic communities are quite literally both: Black and Hispanic. Think Dominican Republic, huge swaths of Puerto Rico, Colombia, Panama, etc.

And you're right, there is variance depending on the Hispanic country the family is immigrating from. Peru, for example, does not have a large black population. So they might be more hesitant to identify and mix with blacks.

In general, most immigrant families want their kids to carry on the legacy and stick to their own. I've seen the exact same scenario you described play out when kids from brown immigrant families marry white people too. It has more to do with the foreigner status and the families not wanting their kids to break with that. But usually, as you pointed out in your own example, it's something they get over in the long run.

But yeah, there is no fundamental racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics. On the contrary, there's a long history of community and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics. In fact, that community and collaboration is what gave birth to Hip-Hop in NYC, which was started by black and Hispanics kids in New York City in the 1970s....

Well what I gathered from the family, and just taking their word for it I guess, is that apparently there are some Latinos that do/did look down on Blacks and they had a lot of the same conflicts or tensions as any other minority/immigrant did.

Yeah they may be grouped together now because of their place on the totem pole and maybe that's why there's a lot of intermingling between the two groups.

And some of it is what do you mean by conflicts. By conflict I'm not talking about like actual physical or violent confrontations. But more like separation and relations between the communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

I think I kind of get what you're talking about and it is most definitely a nuanced and layered issues that has more to do with generations, immigrant POV, etc.

But again, some Hispanic communities are quite literally both: Black and Hispanic. Think Dominican Republic, huge swaths of Puerto Rico, Colombia, Panama, etc.

And you're right, there is variance depending on the Hispanic country the family is immigrating from. Peru, for example, does not have a large black population. So they might be more hesitant to identify and mix with blacks.

In general, most immigrant families want their kids to carry on the legacy and stick to their own. I've seen the exact same scenario you described play out when kids from brown immigrant families marry white people too. It has more to do with the foreigner status and the families not wanting their kids to break with that. But usually, as you pointed out in your own example, it's something they get over in the long run.

But yeah, there is no fundamental racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics. On the contrary, there's a long history of community and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics. In fact, that community and collaboration is what gave birth to Hip-Hop in NYC, which was started by black and Hispanics kids in New York City in the 1970s....

Well what I gathered from the family, and just taking their word for it I guess, is that apparently there are some Latinos that do/did look down on Blacks and they had a lot of the same conflicts or tensions as any other minority/immigrant did.

Yeah they may be grouped together now because of their place on the totem pole and maybe that's why there's a lot of intermingling between the two groups.

And some of it is what do you mean by conflicts. By conflict I'm not talking about like actual physical or violent confrontations. But more like separation and relations between the communities.

Again, that POV has sadly more to do with immigrants in general who look down on black Americans as violent, uneducated and ghetto.

You will quite literally find African immigrant families who react the exact same way with the same attitudes you saw in that Hispanic family if their kid marries a black American. They even call black Americans, Akata, which means bush meat in Yoruba. Basically calling black Americans untamed animals: https://brittlepaper.com/2022/02/nnedi-okorafor-addresses-akata-a-west-african-term-for-black-americans/#:~:text=The%20term%20Akata%20is%20a,and%20more%20recently%20Akata%20Woman.

This gets into a whole internal conflict between minorities about class, status and how people's perceptions are warped by stereotypes or how they conflate individual experiences and apply them to an entire group.

So like I said, much of what you observed was rooted in that, rather than race. They're concerned about their kids lowering themselves and unfortunately, MOST IMMIGRANT FAMILIES do not have a high opinion of black Americans, specifically.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

I think I kind of get what you're talking about and it is most definitely a nuanced and layered issues that has more to do with generations, immigrant POV, etc.

But again, some Hispanic communities are quite literally both: Black and Hispanic. Think Dominican Republic, huge swaths of Puerto Rico, Colombia, Panama, etc.

And you're right, there is variance depending on the Hispanic country the family is immigrating from. Peru, for example, does not have a large black population. So they might be more hesitant to identify and mix with blacks.

In general, most immigrant families want their kids to carry on the legacy and stick to their own. I've seen the exact same scenario you described play out when kids from brown immigrant families marry white people too. It has more to do with the foreigner status and the families not wanting their kids to break with that. But usually, as you pointed out in your own example, it's something they get over in the long run.

But yeah, there is no fundamental racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics. On the contrary, there's a long history of community and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics. In fact, that community and collaboration is what gave birth to Hip-Hop in NYC, which was started by black and Hispanics kids in New York City in the 1970s....

Well what I gathered from the family, and just taking their word for it I guess, is that apparently there are some Latinos that do/did look down on Blacks and they had a lot of the same conflicts or tensions as any other minority/immigrant did.

Yeah they may be grouped together now because of their place on the totem pole and maybe that's why there's a lot of intermingling between the two groups.

And some of it is what do you mean by conflicts. By conflict I'm not talking about like actual physical or violent confrontations. But more like separation and relations between the communities.

Again, that POV has sadly more to do with immigrants in general who look down on black Americans as violent, uneducated and ghetto.

You will quite literally find African immigrant families who react the exact same way with the same attitudes you saw in that Hispanic family if their kid marries a black American. They even call black Americans, Akata, which means bush meat in Yoruba. Basically calling black Americans untamed animals: https://brittlepaper.com/2022/02/nnedi-okorafor-addresses-akata-a-west-african-term-for-black-americans/#:~:text=The%20term%20Akata%20is%20a,and%20more%20recently%20Akata%20Woman.

This gets into a whole internal conflict between minorities about class, status and how people's perceptions are warped by stereotypes or how they conflate individual experiences and apply them to an entire group.

So like I said, much of what you observed was rooted in that, rather than race. They're concerned about their kids lowering themselves and unfortunately, MOST IMMIGRANT FAMILIES do not have a high opinion of black Americans, specifically.

+1 100% agreed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

I think most of what you said was spot on, but I have no idea why you threw this in there or what it means.

There's no race war going on between blacks and hispanics. And you do realize there is a whole intersection of people who are both black and Hispanic, right?

If you're talking about street violence, that's gang stuff. That is not a race issue. The gangs might use race as the basis of their conflicts, but it's not like there's some storied, entrenched racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics.

It's quite the opposite, in my experience. I see more unity and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics then anything, because they often tend to suffer in the same ways and face similar issues. Hence why the Black and Brown Coalition exists, which quite literally unites the black and Hispanic communities together to improve outcomes for both communities in MoCo: https://www.bandbcoalition.org/

It depends.

I wasn't aware of this but apparently it is a thing.

Part of the reason I found out was because a Latino family had a family member marry a Black person. And when talking about it was when I found out what their thoughts were, that it was actually a prevailing thoughts and feelings in the community, etc.

Now that family is a happy blended family (or from what I can tell).

Some of it might be a generational thing, where the parents were among the first wave of immigrants. And remember the Hispanic/Latino culture is diverse too. Apparently people from countries are look upon as snobby, they have stereotypes of each other within.

So just like anything else, it might not be something applicable to the entire community and could be a generational thing. But it is a thing that Latinos and Blacks did have conflicts.

I think I kind of get what you're talking about and it is most definitely a nuanced and layered issues that has more to do with generations, immigrant POV, etc.

But again, some Hispanic communities are quite literally both: Black and Hispanic. Think Dominican Republic, huge swaths of Puerto Rico, Colombia, Panama, etc.

And you're right, there is variance depending on the Hispanic country the family is immigrating from. Peru, for example, does not have a large black population. So they might be more hesitant to identify and mix with blacks.

In general, most immigrant families want their kids to carry on the legacy and stick to their own. I've seen the exact same scenario you described play out when kids from brown immigrant families marry white people too. It has more to do with the foreigner status and the families not wanting their kids to break with that. But usually, as you pointed out in your own example, it's something they get over in the long run.

But yeah, there is no fundamental racial conflict between blacks and Hispanics. On the contrary, there's a long history of community and collaboration between blacks and Hispanics. In fact, that community and collaboration is what gave birth to Hip-Hop in NYC, which was started by black and Hispanics kids in New York City in the 1970s....

Well what I gathered from the family, and just taking their word for it I guess, is that apparently there are some Latinos that do/did look down on Blacks and they had a lot of the same conflicts or tensions as any other minority/immigrant did.

Yeah they may be grouped together now because of their place on the totem pole and maybe that's why there's a lot of intermingling between the two groups.

And some of it is what do you mean by conflicts. By conflict I'm not talking about like actual physical or violent confrontations. But more like separation and relations between the communities.

Again, that POV has sadly more to do with immigrants in general who look down on black Americans as violent, uneducated and ghetto.

You will quite literally find African immigrant families who react the exact same way with the same attitudes you saw in that Hispanic family if their kid marries a black American. They even call black Americans, Akata, which means bush meat in Yoruba. Basically calling black Americans untamed animals: https://brittlepaper.com/2022/02/nnedi-okorafor-addresses-akata-a-west-african-term-for-black-americans/#:~:text=The%20term%20Akata%20is%20a,and%20more%20recently%20Akata%20Woman.

This gets into a whole internal conflict between minorities about class, status and how people's perceptions are warped by stereotypes or how they conflate individual experiences and apply them to an entire group.

So like I said, much of what you observed was rooted in that, rather than race. They're concerned about their kids lowering themselves and unfortunately, MOST IMMIGRANT FAMILIES do not have a high opinion of black Americans, specifically.

+1 100% agreed.

Oh and if I wasn't clear, I'm pp you were replying to. And I think we're on the same page.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

Oh and one comment I did take issue with above is the comment that Hispanic/Latinos don't care about education.

Again drawing my experience from that family. There are indeed Hispanic/Latinos that do care about education, just like anyone else.

But there's a lot of issues related to access, opportunity, etc.

So you can't paint a broad stroke over any particular group.

The comment was limited to newcomers. Do you think the tweens/teens young males crossing the border are interested in getting an education? Their parents send them here alone to work and send money home.

I’m not saying Latinos who have been here for generation don’t prioritize education. I’m talking about the influx of newcomers and 1st Gen who now are the majority in certain schools.

Interestingly, some Latino families are moving out of down county and other heavily dominated newcomer areas (think: Germantown) to “whiter” areas because they want their kids to not be surrounded by what they presumably fled.

Re: black/brown dynamic - it’s a thing when it comes to scarce MoCo and mcps resources. Long story short: massive resources are being redirected to Latino newcomers while black students still struggle. They were the signature minority for generations and now they feel they’ve lost their status. Add immigration status and the fact that Latinos tend to quickly move up the economic ladder and you’ve got a political powder keg. This plays out in big and small ways in moco and mcps.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

Oh and one comment I did take issue with above is the comment that Hispanic/Latinos don't care about education.

Again drawing my experience from that family. There are indeed Hispanic/Latinos that do care about education, just like anyone else.

But there's a lot of issues related to access, opportunity, etc.

So you can't paint a broad stroke over any particular group.

That's funny. Tell that to MCPS because this is EXACTLY what MCPS does. Divides students up by race, and makes determinations based on those groups.

How do you explain the dreaded Achievement Gap?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps and the larger MoCo community would step back and examine what the real issues are. I’m not opposed to tackling the issues, but I feel like our community tends to miss the mark despite its well-intentioned, well-resourced efforts.

Fact: MoCo is a highly educated, super progressive, welcoming place.

Fact: Racism exists everywhere and everyone experiences bias.

Fact: There’s nothing wrong with flagging this and encouraging people to do better…and there’s nothing wrong with establishing expectations for teachers and students.

Fact: Demographics have shifted dramatically in the last two decades, and it’s causing issues that moco and mcps seem to fail to understand.

-Latino newcomers can’t be shoe-horned into our culture. They don’t prioritize education the same way African and Asian newcomers do. Latinos make up the fastest growing student demographic and will outpace whites across the county soon (it’s already happened in several school pyramids).

Fact: There’s a conflict between blacks and Latinos. Reams of research and data on this at the school level as well as the societal level.

Fact: We won’t see the success mcps is looking for until they realize the game has changed. We need a system that recognizes the real issues rather than focusing on the wrong things.

The unfortunately, I’m not optimistic. The changes we need are big.

Oh and one comment I did take issue with above is the comment that Hispanic/Latinos don't care about education.

Again drawing my experience from that family. There are indeed Hispanic/Latinos that do care about education, just like anyone else.

But there's a lot of issues related to access, opportunity, etc.

So you can't paint a broad stroke over any particular group.

That's funny. Tell that to MCPS because this is EXACTLY what MCPS does. Divides students up by race, and makes determinations based on those groups.

How do you explain the dreaded Achievement Gap?

Yep.

Mcps labels students and shoves them into boxes without any sort of nuance or recognition of the reality driving what our system currently is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaways were they’re going to bring in experts, more teacher training, and engage with the community. So yeah, basically more of nothing.

It would be nice if they could pivot to education and focus on reading and math.

Interestingly, they continue to fall short despite how much time they dedicate to math and reading at the elementary level.

They need to group by ability and switch classrooms for math and reading.

One of my kids was lucky enough to be placed in a “smart kid” cohort for grades 3-5 where the entire class is accelerated for math and reading. Class size is smaller than the others. I suspect mcps is studying them but im not sure. Anyway, that kid has received a far superior education than my others who weren’t in such a cohort. Instead they received the allegedly accelerated curriculum while shifting through groups within the same classroom as the teacher struggled to meet the needs of kids at various levels…which serves no one well.

Our school dedicates almost 0 time to reading and math unless you're below grade level. My kid gets a reading group maybe once every 2-3 months. They seem to be only concerned with the achievement gap and nothing else. I feel I'm completely responsible for teaching these things and the school can't be expected to do anything.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaways were they’re going to bring in experts, more teacher training, and engage with the community. So yeah, basically more of nothing.

It would be nice if they could pivot to education and focus on reading and math.

Interestingly, they continue to fall short despite how much time they dedicate to math and reading at the elementary level.

They need to group by ability and switch classrooms for math and reading.

One of my kids was lucky enough to be placed in a “smart kid” cohort for grades 3-5 where the entire class is accelerated for math and reading. Class size is smaller than the others. I suspect mcps is studying them but im not sure. Anyway, that kid has received a far superior education than my others who weren’t in such a cohort. Instead they received the allegedly accelerated curriculum while shifting through groups within the same classroom as the teacher struggled to meet the needs of kids at various levels…which serves no one well.

Our school dedicates almost 0 time to reading and math unless you're below grade level. My kid gets a reading group maybe once every 2-3 months. They seem to be only concerned with the achievement gap and nothing else. I feel I'm completely responsible for teaching these things and the school can't be expected to do anything.

What school? Or what pyramid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaways were they’re going to bring in experts, more teacher training, and engage with the community. So yeah, basically more of nothing.

It would be nice if they could pivot to education and focus on reading and math.

Interestingly, they continue to fall short despite how much time they dedicate to math and reading at the elementary level.

They need to group by ability and switch classrooms for math and reading.

One of my kids was lucky enough to be placed in a “smart kid” cohort for grades 3-5 where the entire class is accelerated for math and reading. Class size is smaller than the others. I suspect mcps is studying them but im not sure. Anyway, that kid has received a far superior education than my others who weren’t in such a cohort. Instead they received the allegedly accelerated curriculum while shifting through groups within the same classroom as the teacher struggled to meet the needs of kids at various levels…which serves no one well.

Our school dedicates almost 0 time to reading and math unless you're below grade level. My kid gets a reading group maybe once every 2-3 months. They seem to be only concerned with the achievement gap and nothing else. I feel I'm completely responsible for teaching these things and the school can't be expected to do anything.

What school? Or what pyramid?

MCPS doesn't have "pyramids".