Canceling $10k of student loan debt is stupid.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up to $125,000 singles or $250,000/for couples is way, way too high.

What a joke.

Exactly, people who make six-figure salaries have *NO ISSUES* paying back a $10k loan.

What about the ones with way more than 10k in debt? The more you have, the harder it is to pay back because of the interest.

[Anonymous]

For folks who are struggling to make ends meet and make just over minimum wage, it would help them. Not everyone chooses a discipline that has good income potential. High school counselors left that chapter out when giving advice to rising seniors who go on to major in hobby degrees.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For folks who are struggling to make ends meet and make just over minimum wage, it would help them. Not everyone chooses a discipline that has good income potential. High school counselors left that chapter out when giving advice to rising seniors who go on to major in hobby degrees.

Now it's HS counselors' fault? Holy F-.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
For folks who are struggling to make ends meet and make just over minimum wage, it would help them. Not everyone chooses a discipline that has good income potential. High school counselors left that chapter out when giving advice to rising seniors who go on to major in hobby degrees.


Now it's HS counselors' fault? Holy F-.

+1 There are four years (at least) between high school graduation and college graduation and the first two years of college are usually filled with a lot of basic requirement classes. There is plenty of time to think and decide to change from whatever "hobby degree major" was recommended by any high school counselor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For folks who are struggling to make ends meet and make just over minimum wage, it would help them. Not everyone chooses a discipline that has good income potential. High school counselors left that chapter out when giving advice to rising seniors who go on to major in hobby degrees.

Now it's HS counselors' fault? Holy F-.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up to $125,000 singles or $250,000/for couples is way, way too high.

What a joke.

Exactly, people who make six-figure salaries have *NO ISSUES* paying back a $10k loan.

What about the ones with way more than 10k in debt? The more you have, the harder it is to pay back because of the interest.

For those with way more than $10k in debt, this $10k is not going to help much. It does not solve their problem that they can't make enough money to pay back whatever it is that they owe - remember this is the crux of the matter.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling any new or old measly $10k of student loan debt is the dumbest idea. What is the payment on that, a mere $100/month?

Instead, the struggling folks need help - the ones buried under 75k, 100k, 300k of debt for over 20 years who, because it's been 20 years, obviously they can't pay it! And I mean 20 years since school completion, not 20 years of qualifying payments, huge difference.

my 2 cents

For me, canceling $10k of my debt would have halved my monthly payment. I’m one of the teachers who got screwed over under the last administration. I was supposed to have my debt entirely forgiven.

Why is your student loan my responsibility to pay off?

Because the ballooning of federal student loans was a product of ill-guided federal policy (under both Dems and Republicans), student loan debt is hindering US economic growth, and college graduates are a benefit to an industrial/post-industrial society not just a private benefit. Also, student loans are the product of the divesting of support from state governments for public education that prior generations benefitted from. Think of it as a scholarship for completing college rather than a forgiveness of loan. I don't have student loans--but it was federal and state policies that created the student loan mess and I'm all for having them help clean it up. It will benefit everyone--student loan holders and not.

Bless your heart. If I thought about it as a scholarship for finishing college, I would be wealthy. I finished a PhD with zero debt by working my A$$ off and I am not getting a scholarship for graduating college and grad school. I understood the impact of taking out $100k worth of loans on my future, even at 18.
Explain how it benefits me or my children? I have been saving for their college since before they have been born, not hoping for loan forgiveness. I have worked jobs I don't particularly liked, lived in a house that is less than dcum standards, and driven by many a starbucks to save a dollar so that they can have a college education. Again, how is giving away 10k when there is no other clean up of the college cost mess included benefiting anyone but the people before them? I don't understand the logic.

You are not directly benefitted by many of the ways society gives out tax breaks, credits, benefits etc. but you want to participate in that society. You are getting some benefits somewhere--most PhD programs are subsidized by master's and undergraduate programs to pay for RAships, TAships and their associated benefits such as tuition remission, health insurance credits, stipends. This is because society values having experts and recognizes that PhD programs represent a long investment that may not make financial sense. Government agencies allow that sort of distribution of costs to reflect that--but it's not particularly "fair" on any individual level.

In your savings for your kids, did you benefit from the tax break of a 529 plan? Those tend to privilege those who have a HHI of 100k or higher a year, which is far above the median. Why should all the those making 60k pay for your tax break? (Because whether we call it a credit, a break, forgiveness, etc. it's all coming from the same pot).

I'm sure since you have finished a PhD (as have I) you have had the good fortune of more intelligence than average--I trust you can be aware that not everyone had the same intellectual resources to work with. You likely (though not necessarily) have some family background that helps you (even if your parents didn't go to college, and didn't contribute financially to your undergraduate education, they likely had higher than average intelligence if they have a kid who completed a PhD) I think it is problematic that we have drifted into being a society that encourages families to believe that every kid--regardless of their aptitude--will do better if they go to college, and I have no problem with correcting that. I am glad that the student loan forgiveness is being built on an earlier initiative for far greater investment in community college which makes sense for more students. I see the loan forgiveness as an effort to help clean up some of the mess that the government contributed to around college costs/encouragement of 4 year college for all, and I want it followed up with continued investment in community college, greater support for trade education and on-the-job training, and significant public investment in excellent 4 year colleges rather than treating it primarily as an individual good that people purchase.

Thank you. There are so many ways people are benefiting from government handouts. They are mad about $10k in forgiveness but paid for their kids education with a 529 that they got a tax break for. Ugh make it make sense!!!

Wealthy people somehow dont see tax breaks as handouts. They can bemoan 10k a kid while ignoring how much they aren't paying on not only their 529s, but their IRAs and 401ks not to mention their mortgage deductions.

You get tax breaks for paying student loans in the same way you get a tax break for paying a mortgage dum dum. What you call for would be like a home owner not only being able to write off mortgage interest, but also getting a portion of their mortgage principal reduced. That's not the same like you are trying to equate. Jeez you are really obtuse and willfully ignore the fact that millions of student loan borrowers already get tax breaks for borrowing.

I don't know how you can be this obtuse-- as adults you are also getting all sorts of "layered tax breaks." For having a kid--Maternity/paternity leave, child tax credit + dependent exemption+ 529 education benefit (for education at any level K-graduate)+ public school funding+ many other potential programs and credits that may come into play. The tax breaks for student loans are currently of miniscule value for most people--and a tiny portion of loans are subsidized. No one is getting more money back than they are paying in.

Conversely, the people getting social security/medicare right now get far more than they ever paid into the system--even inflation adjusted and with the time value of money.

This disparity is true on the state level. Connecticut, California, NY, MA, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington all pay vastly more in federal income taxes than they receive in federal funding.

Keep crying and moving the goal posts.

First you tried to claim that everyone who gets tax breaks for 401ks, IRAs, 529s etc. were getting 'handouts' and that that was a reason for student loan forgiveness. Then when it was pointed out that people paying student loans already DO get tax breaks for paying loans, you tried to move the goal posts to claim that upwards of $2500 per year in deduction is 'a miniscule drop in the bucket'.

Stop being a whiny entitled loser and pay your bills. Forgiveness is not the same as tax breaks in other areas. Student loan borrowers already get tax breaks, duh. Now you want to double dip because you are entitled and lazy.

I don't have any student loans! (I had one 8500 graduate student loan that I paid off years ago). Nor do my kids! I just think they make sense for society and think people who don't notice all the preferential treatments they also get in tax breaks just can't see the difference between a federal government deciding to forgive loans it gave out and other forms of debt.

Once again, student loan borrowers DO GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. THEY GET TAX BREAKS OF UP TO $2500 PER YEAR. You want student loan borrowers to double dip in treatment now.

check the income requirements. Once you start making a reasonable income by DC standards, your benefit goes away.

Oh whoop dee doo. So sad borrowers making 6 figures are not eligible for tax deductions on student loans. There will be income caps on loan forgiveness too.

So we reward those that took at debt for worthless degrees that can't pay it back? Wtf

Yup, pretty much. Only the genders studies, philosophy majors, english majors, and all of the crappy degree holders get this free handout.

+1. Looking at the Twitter handles for the folks cheering this on and it’s shocking how many worthless degrees are out their. I mean, who the hell borrows six figures for an ethnic studies degree? Maybe at the community college level, but at the university level?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Up to $125,000 singles or $250,000/for couples is way, way too high.

What a joke.

Exactly, people who make six-figure salaries have *NO ISSUES* paying back a $10k loan.

What about the ones with way more than 10k in debt? The more you have, the harder it is to pay back because of the interest.

For those with way more than $10k in debt, this $10k is not going to help much. It does not solve their problem that they can't make enough money to pay back whatever it is that they owe - remember this is the crux of the matter.

No. No. No. No. That’s not the crux of the matter. The crux is that 1) higher education is too expensive and has outpaced inflation for 20 years, and 2) people are pursuing degrees that have no value. That’s a recipe for disaster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

Who is going to sue over this and on what grounds?

PP here and the grounds would be that the action exceeds his authority under the statute. No idea who will sue, there's usually a special interest group that runs these lawsuits.

Standing is a thing, and it's hard to imagine who has standing here.

People defending the Biden Administration’s decision on the ground that it’s illegal, but they can get away with it due to inadequacy of legal remedies, ought not to be lecturing anybody else about either the rule of law or democracy going forward. When you have cut through all the laws, what will protect you from the devil when he turns on you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
For folks who are struggling to make ends meet and make just over minimum wage, it would help them. Not everyone chooses a discipline that has good income potential. High school counselors left that chapter out when giving advice to rising seniors who go on to major in hobby degrees.


Now it's HS counselors' fault? Holy F-.

+1 There are four years (at least) between high school graduation and college graduation and the first two years of college are usually filled with a lot of basic requirement classes. There is plenty of time to think and decide to change from whatever "hobby degree major" was recommended by any high school counselor.

Many students want to do pre-med, or computer science or whatever and they find they are not good at those. However, if you get your degree from a solid 4 year institution, the ROI is still strong. Plenty of analyses show that even philosophy, gender studies, art, history etc. majors have a major lifetime income benefit from their college. Those majors are a way to read and write critically. They learned to communicate. College for most majors--save for pre-professional fields is not about getting a specific job. For instance, a lot of gender studies and media studies majors go into marketing and communication. It's often a more productive route than a 'marketing' major.

I think there are different broad stories about student loans--one set of stories are that some people are really bad off because they took on huge loans, didn't finish college, went to some crappy marketable sounding major at a for-profit institution like 'electronics technician" etc. There has been cancellation of debt from those for-profit schools and those schools have been sued for predatory practices. Some were very poor but went to lower end colleges that don't meet full financial need.

The other portion--for whom 10 k will make a difference are the MC folks -- there is a sizeable portion of the younger generation is in debt from college that used to be more subsidized by public funds for prior generations. It's holding them and the country back economically. Young people delay buying houses, having children (which we need to increase the birth rate if we want to pay for social security, medicare etc). So many analyses show that the cost of college debt is what is preventing younger generations from accumulating the wealth that prior generations had. They have gainful employment--it's just that it's hard to start out with debt. Forgiving some of that debt makes good sense for the federal government/society as it stems from flaws in how the federal government chose to encourage college through loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

Who is going to sue over this and on what grounds?

PP here and the grounds would be that the action exceeds his authority under the statute. No idea who will sue, there's usually a special interest group that runs these lawsuits.

Standing is a thing, and it's hard to imagine who has standing here.

PP here and probably the loan servicers who will lose some amount of revenue.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Canceling any new or old measly $10k of student loan debt is the dumbest idea. What is the payment on that, a mere $100/month?

Instead, the struggling folks need help - the ones buried under 75k, 100k, 300k of debt for over 20 years who, because it's been 20 years, obviously they can't pay it! And I mean 20 years since school completion, not 20 years of qualifying payments, huge difference.

my 2 cents

For me, canceling $10k of my debt would have halved my monthly payment. I’m one of the teachers who got screwed over under the last administration. I was supposed to have my debt entirely forgiven.

Why is your student loan my responsibility to pay off?

Because the ballooning of federal student loans was a product of ill-guided federal policy (under both Dems and Republicans), student loan debt is hindering US economic growth, and college graduates are a benefit to an industrial/post-industrial society not just a private benefit. Also, student loans are the product of the divesting of support from state governments for public education that prior generations benefitted from. Think of it as a scholarship for completing college rather than a forgiveness of loan. I don't have student loans--but it was federal and state policies that created the student loan mess and I'm all for having them help clean it up. It will benefit everyone--student loan holders and not.

Bless your heart. If I thought about it as a scholarship for finishing college, I would be wealthy. I finished a PhD with zero debt by working my A$$ off and I am not getting a scholarship for graduating college and grad school. I understood the impact of taking out $100k worth of loans on my future, even at 18.
Explain how it benefits me or my children? I have been saving for their college since before they have been born, not hoping for loan forgiveness. I have worked jobs I don't particularly liked, lived in a house that is less than dcum standards, and driven by many a starbucks to save a dollar so that they can have a college education. Again, how is giving away 10k when there is no other clean up of the college cost mess included benefiting anyone but the people before them? I don't understand the logic.

You are not directly benefitted by many of the ways society gives out tax breaks, credits, benefits etc. but you want to participate in that society. You are getting some benefits somewhere--most PhD programs are subsidized by master's and undergraduate programs to pay for RAships, TAships and their associated benefits such as tuition remission, health insurance credits, stipends. This is because society values having experts and recognizes that PhD programs represent a long investment that may not make financial sense. Government agencies allow that sort of distribution of costs to reflect that--but it's not particularly "fair" on any individual level.

In your savings for your kids, did you benefit from the tax break of a 529 plan? Those tend to privilege those who have a HHI of 100k or higher a year, which is far above the median. Why should all the those making 60k pay for your tax break? (Because whether we call it a credit, a break, forgiveness, etc. it's all coming from the same pot).

I'm sure since you have finished a PhD (as have I) you have had the good fortune of more intelligence than average--I trust you can be aware that not everyone had the same intellectual resources to work with. You likely (though not necessarily) have some family background that helps you (even if your parents didn't go to college, and didn't contribute financially to your undergraduate education, they likely had higher than average intelligence if they have a kid who completed a PhD) I think it is problematic that we have drifted into being a society that encourages families to believe that every kid--regardless of their aptitude--will do better if they go to college, and I have no problem with correcting that. I am glad that the student loan forgiveness is being built on an earlier initiative for far greater investment in community college which makes sense for more students. I see the loan forgiveness as an effort to help clean up some of the mess that the government contributed to around college costs/encouragement of 4 year college for all, and I want it followed up with continued investment in community college, greater support for trade education and on-the-job training, and significant public investment in excellent 4 year colleges rather than treating it primarily as an individual good that people purchase.

Thank you. There are so many ways people are benefiting from government handouts. They are mad about $10k in forgiveness but paid for their kids education with a 529 that they got a tax break for. Ugh make it make sense!!!

Wealthy people somehow dont see tax breaks as handouts. They can bemoan 10k a kid while ignoring how much they aren't paying on not only their 529s, but their IRAs and 401ks not to mention their mortgage deductions.

You get tax breaks for paying student loans in the same way you get a tax break for paying a mortgage dum dum. What you call for would be like a home owner not only being able to write off mortgage interest, but also getting a portion of their mortgage principal reduced. That's not the same like you are trying to equate. Jeez you are really obtuse and willfully ignore the fact that millions of student loan borrowers already get tax breaks for borrowing.

I don't know how you can be this obtuse-- as adults you are also getting all sorts of "layered tax breaks." For having a kid--Maternity/paternity leave, child tax credit + dependent exemption+ 529 education benefit (for education at any level K-graduate)+ public school funding+ many other potential programs and credits that may come into play. The tax breaks for student loans are currently of miniscule value for most people--and a tiny portion of loans are subsidized. No one is getting more money back than they are paying in.

Conversely, the people getting social security/medicare right now get far more than they ever paid into the system--even inflation adjusted and with the time value of money.

This disparity is true on the state level. Connecticut, California, NY, MA, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Washington all pay vastly more in federal income taxes than they receive in federal funding.

Keep crying and moving the goal posts.

First you tried to claim that everyone who gets tax breaks for 401ks, IRAs, 529s etc. were getting 'handouts' and that that was a reason for student loan forgiveness. Then when it was pointed out that people paying student loans already DO get tax breaks for paying loans, you tried to move the goal posts to claim that upwards of $2500 per year in deduction is 'a miniscule drop in the bucket'.

Stop being a whiny entitled loser and pay your bills. Forgiveness is not the same as tax breaks in other areas. Student loan borrowers already get tax breaks, duh. Now you want to double dip because you are entitled and lazy.

I don't have any student loans! (I had one 8500 graduate student loan that I paid off years ago). Nor do my kids! I just think they make sense for society and think people who don't notice all the preferential treatments they also get in tax breaks just can't see the difference between a federal government deciding to forgive loans it gave out and other forms of debt.

Once again, student loan borrowers DO GET PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT. THEY GET TAX BREAKS OF UP TO $2500 PER YEAR. You want student loan borrowers to double dip in treatment now.

check the income requirements. Once you start making a reasonable income by DC standards, your benefit goes away.

Oh whoop dee doo. So sad borrowers making 6 figures are not eligible for tax deductions on student loans. There will be income caps on loan forgiveness too.

So we reward those that took at debt for worthless degrees that can't pay it back? Wtf

Yup, pretty much. Only the genders studies, philosophy majors, english majors, and all of the crappy degree holders get this free handout.

+1. Looking at the Twitter handles for the folks cheering this on and it’s shocking how many worthless degrees are out their. I mean, who the hell borrows six figures for an ethnic studies degree? Maybe at the community college level, but at the university level?

Maybe the degrees help improve spelling/use of technology tools to support writing?
Also, maximum federal student loan for undergraduate is 57500 across all 4 years.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is the dumbest policy imaginable, perfectly calibrated to maximize the divisiveness of this issue while accomplishing little of real benefit: (1) it will greatly alienate huge swathes of people who paid back their loans, often at great personal sacrifice, as it implicitly makes people who chose to do the right thing relatively worse off compared to those who didn’t, and it is likely an illegal giveaway to Biden’s voter base to boot, while (2) the amount is so small that it won’t materially benefit the really sympathetic cases of people with huge loan balances that they can never get out from under, while at the same time allowing debt forgiveness advocates to preen about how people who have a problem with this are really just selfish bastards.

A much more rational approach would simply allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, as indeed they may actually be as courts take a harder look at that issue. This allows student loan debtors to get a fresh start while not making loan payers feel like chumps for not getting a piece of the action.

This makes a lot of sense.

I like Biden but this really makes me question his judgement.

I think this is highly offensive to all reasonable people. The abuse of PPP loans by the likes of Senator Nancy Pelosi and her DH is equally offensive.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm really surprised he has the authority to do this via executive order. Not just the debt cancellation but also reducing IBR programs from 20 to 10 years and reducing the percentage of discretionary income paid towards loans from 10% to 5%.

I imagine this will be tied up in court for quite some time.

Who is going to sue over this and on what grounds?

PP here and the grounds would be that the action exceeds his authority under the statute. No idea who will sue, there's usually a special interest group that runs these lawsuits.

Standing is a thing, and it's hard to imagine who has standing here.

PP here and probably the loan servicers who will lose some amount of revenue.

Seems pretty thin standing for federal loans. This doesn't impact private loan servicers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is the dumbest policy imaginable, perfectly calibrated to maximize the divisiveness of this issue while accomplishing little of real benefit: (1) it will greatly alienate huge swathes of people who paid back their loans, often at great personal sacrifice, as it implicitly makes people who chose to do the right thing relatively worse off compared to those who didn’t, and it is likely an illegal giveaway to Biden’s voter base to boot, while (2) the amount is so small that it won’t materially benefit the really sympathetic cases of people with huge loan balances that they can never get out from under, while at the same time allowing debt forgiveness advocates to preen about how people who have a problem with this are really just selfish bastards.

A much more rational approach would simply allow student loans to be discharged in bankruptcy, as indeed they may actually be as courts take a harder look at that issue. This allows student loan debtors to get a fresh start while not making loan payers feel like chumps for not getting a piece of the action.

This makes a lot of sense.

I like Biden but this really makes me question his judgement.

I think this is highly offensive to all reasonable people. The abuse of PPP loans by the likes of Senator Nancy Pelosi and her DH is equally offensive.

Why did you single out Nancy Pelosi? Do you know how many Republican officials had large PPP loans forgiven? And how many business people?