Is Shakespeare not taught in DCPS?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

Are you arguing that DCPS students should only study literature from England? That's nuts. Besides, the Bible wasn't written in English. Good grief! Anyway, I've already listed them in a prior post.

You need to change your tone, I'm not your spouse.

I'm arguing that in the English literature class, students should mostly study literature written in English, not written in England! I'd make an exception for works that were written before the development of the English language, if they had an outsized influence on later literary works.

That list would include in some rough chronological order the Epic of Gilgamesh, the bible, the Odyssey, a greek play (e.g. Aristophan, Sophocles), a latin work (e.g. Ovid, Virgil). The next one woud be Beowulf, but that's already Old English. I'm not sure there would be time for all to be honest, if I were to chose only two it would be the Odyssey and the bible, and I'm an atheist, not doing it for religious reasons. If I were to pick a single one, it would be the Odyssey.

I don't think Koran or Bhagavad Gita, had a great influence on the English language and literature, but they would fit great in an elective History of Religion class.

For non-English literature, a world literature class, and there are plenty of good choices, I'd have to think carefully to pick 5 books to fit a full year curriculum. Off the top of my head Dante, Cervantes, Goethe, Dostoievsky, Garcia Marquez.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

People it's not that hard, please no religious texts in public schools! The claim about the Bible being the foundation of literature is such BS.

The only one who seems to be having difficulty with this is you. Religious texts that are taught as literature or part of World History are fine, as long as texts from different religions are represented. Or, as DCPS put it:

1. The evolution of the concepts of personal freedom, individual responsibility, and respect for human dignity over
time.
2. The struggles that men and women have faced in overcoming political oppression, economic exploitation, religious persecution, and racial injustice.
3. The growth and impact of centralized state power
through time.
4. The birth, growth, and decline of civilizations.
5. The influence of economic, political, religious, and cultural
ideas as human societies move beyond regional, national,
or geographic boundaries.
6. The historical patterns and relationships within and
among world nations, continents, and regions —
economic competition and interdependence; age-old
ethnic, racial, and religious enmities; political and military
alliances; peacemaking and war making — that serve as a
backdrop to and explain contemporary policy alternatives
with national and worldwide implications.
7. The effects of geography on the history of civilizations
and nations.
8. The effects of the interactions between humans and the
environment through the ages.
9. The growth and spread of free markets and industrial
economies.
10. The development of scientific reasoning, technology, and
formal education over time and their effect on people’s
health, standards of living, economic growth, government,
religious beliefs, communal life, and the environment.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Last year, my DC read “Romeo and Juliet” at Wilson. That was ninth grade.

Is taking English next semester. We shall see.

Almost all the books my 6th and 9th graders (Deal and Wilson) are assigned (or required to choose from) are tendentiously promoting the new notion of "equity"...

Exactly. So when my student was assigned Romeo and Juliet in ninth grade at Wilson, I just assumed that Shakespeare was African American. Sounds like a black name.

I’m gathering he’s not?

Np I seriously hope you are joking.

[Anonymous]

Also Balzac or some other French author.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

People it's not that hard, please no religious texts in public schools! The claim about the Bible being the foundation of literature is such BS.

The only one who seems to be having difficulty with this is you. Religious texts that are taught as literature or part of World History are fine, as long as texts from different religions are represented. Or, as DCPS put it:

1. The evolution of the concepts of personal freedom, individual responsibility, and respect for human dignity over
time.
2. The struggles that men and women have faced in overcoming political oppression, economic exploitation, religious persecution, and racial injustice.
3. The growth and impact of centralized state power
through time.
4. The birth, growth, and decline of civilizations.
5. The influence of economic, political, religious, and cultural
ideas as human societies move beyond regional, national,
or geographic boundaries.
6. The historical patterns and relationships within and
among world nations, continents, and regions —
economic competition and interdependence; age-old
ethnic, racial, and religious enmities; political and military
alliances; peacemaking and war making — that serve as a
backdrop to and explain contemporary policy alternatives
with national and worldwide implications.
7. The effects of geography on the history of civilizations
and nations.
8. The effects of the interactions between humans and the
environment through the ages.
9. The growth and spread of free markets and industrial
economies.
10. The development of scientific reasoning, technology, and
formal education over time and their effect on people’s
health, standards of living, economic growth, government,
religious beliefs, communal life, and the environment.

That's not what the religious PPs are arguing. They want the Bible as the foundational guiding document for English literature in general. See the PPs above, they literally said first read the Bible before Shakespeare or anything else.

[Anonymous]

The Bible is foundational for the English literature but not guiding. Shakespeare is both foundational and guiding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is so depressing. Saving my pennies now for private school for my kids (which will definitely not further the goal of equity that folks are striving for by eliminating Shakespeare from the curriculum).

Please have your child go to private, based on your comment they need all the help they can get.

[Anonymous]

Eh, no Bible.
Unless it’s being read as a fictional piece of work, which I assume will make some mad lol.
Might as well just do the Odyssey, it’s just like the Bible but people like to pretend it’s very different.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

People it's not that hard, please no religious texts in public schools! The claim about the Bible being the foundation of literature is such BS.

Surely you jest. For centuries the only book people had access to was the Bible. Religion and holy books were the center of peoples lives for Millennia so naturally that’s what they wrote about and reacted to.

Here’s a list of a few books off the top of my head that are based on refer to the Bible or biblical stories:

Paradise Lost
East of Eden
The Grapes of Wrath
Song of Solomon
The Handmaids Tale
Cry! The Beloved Country
Dante’s Inferno
Absalom, Absalom!
The merchant of Venice
Hamlet
Oliver Twist
Crime and Punishment
Lord of the Flies
Moby Dick
Crime and Punishment
The Sound and Fury

Here’s a nice essay on the subject. https://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/books/review/the-book-of-books-what-literature-owes-the-bible.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Eh, no Bible.
Unless it’s being read as a fictional piece of work, which I assume will make some mad lol.
Might as well just do the Odyssey, it’s just like the Bible but people like to pretend it’s very different.

I think the difficulty in having it understood as a study of literature by parents (see: this thread) is enough to preclude it from public school. But ideally it should be part of any English lit curriculum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The Bible is foundational for the English literature but not guiding. Shakespeare is both foundational and guiding.

Interesting point. I’d say the time frames are at play here too- as the Bible predates Shakespeare by 1500+ years. But The difference is that the Bible was the source of rules people had to live by- so while it’s writing doesn’t resonate the way Shakespearean text do, the Bible holds the very framework many writers explored and pulled apart. Different role in literature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

People it's not that hard, please no religious texts in public schools! The claim about the Bible being the foundation of literature is such BS.

The only one who seems to be having difficulty with this is you. Religious texts that are taught as literature or part of World History are fine, as long as texts from different religions are represented. Or, as DCPS put it:

1. The evolution of the concepts of personal freedom, individual responsibility, and respect for human dignity over
time.
2. The struggles that men and women have faced in overcoming political oppression, economic exploitation, religious persecution, and racial injustice.
3. The growth and impact of centralized state power
through time.
4. The birth, growth, and decline of civilizations.
5. The influence of economic, political, religious, and cultural
ideas as human societies move beyond regional, national,
or geographic boundaries.
6. The historical patterns and relationships within and
among world nations, continents, and regions —
economic competition and interdependence; age-old
ethnic, racial, and religious enmities; political and military
alliances; peacemaking and war making — that serve as a
backdrop to and explain contemporary policy alternatives
with national and worldwide implications.
7. The effects of geography on the history of civilizations
and nations.
8. The effects of the interactions between humans and the
environment through the ages.
9. The growth and spread of free markets and industrial
economies.
10. The development of scientific reasoning, technology, and
formal education over time and their effect on people’s
health, standards of living, economic growth, government,
religious beliefs, communal life, and the environment.

That's not what the religious PPs are arguing. They want the Bible as the foundational guiding document for English literature in general. See the PPs above, they literally said first read the Bible before Shakespeare or anything else.

Oh ffs. Nobody said that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, no Bible.
Unless it’s being read as a fictional piece of work, which I assume will make some mad lol.
Might as well just do the Odyssey, it’s just like the Bible but people like to pretend it’s very different.

I think the difficulty in having it understood as a study of literature by parents (see: this thread) is enough to preclude it from public school. But ideally it should be part of any English lit curriculum.

No, it shouldn't. Kids today are barely learning at all, the last thing the need is filling up precious classroom time with more Jesus stories.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It would be cool, but in this thread we are talking about English literature classes. I wouldn't go beyong the bible for religious texts, there is too much to cover.

Nonsense!

OK, what religious texts would you include in the English literature class besides the bible?

People it's not that hard, please no religious texts in public schools! The claim about the Bible being the foundation of literature is such BS.

The only one who seems to be having difficulty with this is you. Religious texts that are taught as literature or part of World History are fine, as long as texts from different religions are represented. Or, as DCPS put it:

1. The evolution of the concepts of personal freedom, individual responsibility, and respect for human dignity over
time.
2. The struggles that men and women have faced in overcoming political oppression, economic exploitation, religious persecution, and racial injustice.
3. The growth and impact of centralized state power
through time.
4. The birth, growth, and decline of civilizations.
5. The influence of economic, political, religious, and cultural
ideas as human societies move beyond regional, national,
or geographic boundaries.
6. The historical patterns and relationships within and
among world nations, continents, and regions —
economic competition and interdependence; age-old
ethnic, racial, and religious enmities; political and military
alliances; peacemaking and war making — that serve as a
backdrop to and explain contemporary policy alternatives
with national and worldwide implications.
7. The effects of geography on the history of civilizations
and nations.
8. The effects of the interactions between humans and the
environment through the ages.
9. The growth and spread of free markets and industrial
economies.
10. The development of scientific reasoning, technology, and
formal education over time and their effect on people’s
health, standards of living, economic growth, government,
religious beliefs, communal life, and the environment.

That's not what the religious PPs are arguing. They want the Bible as the foundational guiding document for English literature in general. See the PPs above, they literally said first read the Bible before Shakespeare or anything else.

Oh ffs. Nobody said that.

Yes they did. Just search upthread for "bible" and "foundation"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Eh, no Bible.
Unless it’s being read as a fictional piece of work, which I assume will make some mad lol.
Might as well just do the Odyssey, it’s just like the Bible but people like to pretend it’s very different.

I think the difficulty in having it understood as a study of literature by parents (see: this thread) is enough to preclude it from public school. But ideally it should be part of any English lit curriculum.

No, it shouldn't. Kids today are barely learning at all, the last thing the need is filling up precious classroom time with more Jesus stories.

You grasp of complex ideas and canon is clear.

:waves white flag, gives up