Camp Rant

[Anonymous]

If your dd isn’t tall, the odds are not in her favor. Ask me how I know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise! People praising the free markets, the greed, the offer and demand! Who could have guessed?

This debate might pop up on more DCUM volleyball threads than Metro versus Paramount, but I don't really understand what people who believe small business shouldn't maximize their profits are suggesting. What solutions are you proposing?

I don't really understand what people who believe small business should maximize their profits are suggesting. Stop doing the math to avoid realizing that they are shamelessly milking everyone? Stop exercising free speech? If they are allowed to charge whatever they want, we can also point out the greed. Look it up - it's called the first amendment.

Yes, you can call it greed. You can call it greed 100 times if you want. But repeating a word doesn’t make it true.

I’ll restate my original question: do you also complain when a popular restaurant raises prices, a daycare has a waitlist, or a tutor charges $150/hour? Somehow “greed” only becomes the explanation when it’s an activity you personally want but don’t want to pay for.

There are cheaper ways to play volleyball: park and rec, school teams, community leagues, open gyms, your backyard. What you’re upset about is that the most sought-after clubs, coaches, and clinics charge premium prices.

That’s not greed. That’s a premium product with matching demand.

It’s like walking into BLT Steak, ordering a burger, and complaining that Burger King sells one for less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the premium option.

Your simile sucks big time and you know it. You are talking as if you can only buy burgers from BLT Steak or Burger King. The truth is that burgers come at multiple price points in between BLT Steak and Burger King. You can also buy cars in between a Kia Kona and a Maserati. With volleyball, your options are very limited once you are above rec (with MVSA or VolleyViet being notable exceptions). So you can claim that everyone has options until you turn blue, but you know that's not true.

NP and you lost us here because there are plenty of options in between but you might have to drive and they might be at inconvenient times. As the PP pointed out, it’s all about supply and demand. Land is expensive here. Volleyball takes up space and there are only so many coaches.

Those of us who have been around a while have known many who have thought about trying to open up something but none of us have done it. So we are either still driving, paying lots or our kids have stopped playing by now. This is going to be true for many sports in this area, not only volleyball.

[Anonymous]

OP, if your kid does sports you will need a car to get them back and forth to games in HS.

[Anonymous]

Club volleyball is a total grift. After you shell out the bucks, your child may never get any playtime. And then you have to sit there and not complain or even speak to the coach. You have been warned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise! People praising the free markets, the greed, the offer and demand! Who could have guessed?

This debate might pop up on more DCUM volleyball threads than Metro versus Paramount, but I don't really understand what people who believe small business shouldn't maximize their profits are suggesting. What solutions are you proposing?

I don't really understand what people who believe small business should maximize their profits are suggesting. Stop doing the math to avoid realizing that they are shamelessly milking everyone? Stop exercising free speech? If they are allowed to charge whatever they want, we can also point out the greed. Look it up - it's called the first amendment.

Yes, you can call it greed. You can call it greed 100 times if you want. But repeating a word doesn’t make it true.

I’ll restate my original question: do you also complain when a popular restaurant raises prices, a daycare has a waitlist, or a tutor charges $150/hour? Somehow “greed” only becomes the explanation when it’s an activity you personally want but don’t want to pay for.

There are cheaper ways to play volleyball: park and rec, school teams, community leagues, open gyms, your backyard. What you’re upset about is that the most sought-after clubs, coaches, and clinics charge premium prices.

That’s not greed. That’s a premium product with matching demand.

It’s like walking into BLT Steak, ordering a burger, and complaining that Burger King sells one for less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the premium option.

Your simile sucks big time and you know it. You are talking as if you can only buy burgers from BLT Steak or Burger King. The truth is that burgers come at multiple price points in between BLT Steak and Burger King. You can also buy cars in between a Kia Kona and a Maserati. With volleyball, your options are very limited once you are above rec (with MVSA or VolleyViet being notable exceptions). So you can claim that everyone has options until you turn blue, but you know that's not true.

NP and you lost us here because there are plenty of options in between but you might have to drive and they might be at inconvenient times. As the PP pointed out, it’s all about supply and demand. Land is expensive here. Volleyball takes up space and there are only so many coaches.

Those of us who have been around a while have known many who have thought about trying to open up something but none of us have done it. So we are either still driving, paying lots or our kids have stopped playing by now. This is going to be true for many sports in this area, not only volleyball.

I wander what you mean by "plenty of options" because I've been around for a while and I call BS. The bolded part simply shows that there aren't really that many options. Stop the smokescreen about the land being expensive. Do the math and figure out for yourself: renting a gym is not as expensive as it sounds. At least the PP admitted that the volleyball clubs are trying to maximize profits. I can respect that line of reasoning because that's what they are doing. Let's stop pretending that the land value has anything to do with the cost of club volleyball. Maybe indirectly: expensive land means rich homeowners who are likely to pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise! People praising the free markets, the greed, the offer and demand! Who could have guessed?

This debate might pop up on more DCUM volleyball threads than Metro versus Paramount, but I don't really understand what people who believe small business shouldn't maximize their profits are suggesting. What solutions are you proposing?

I don't really understand what people who believe small business should maximize their profits are suggesting. Stop doing the math to avoid realizing that they are shamelessly milking everyone? Stop exercising free speech? If they are allowed to charge whatever they want, we can also point out the greed. Look it up - it's called the first amendment.

Yes, you can call it greed. You can call it greed 100 times if you want. But repeating a word doesn’t make it true.

I’ll restate my original question: do you also complain when a popular restaurant raises prices, a daycare has a waitlist, or a tutor charges $150/hour? Somehow “greed” only becomes the explanation when it’s an activity you personally want but don’t want to pay for.

There are cheaper ways to play volleyball: park and rec, school teams, community leagues, open gyms, your backyard. What you’re upset about is that the most sought-after clubs, coaches, and clinics charge premium prices.

That’s not greed. That’s a premium product with matching demand.

It’s like walking into BLT Steak, ordering a burger, and complaining that Burger King sells one for less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the premium option.

Your simile sucks big time and you know it. You are talking as if you can only buy burgers from BLT Steak or Burger King. The truth is that burgers come at multiple price points in between BLT Steak and Burger King. You can also buy cars in between a Kia Kona and a Maserati. With volleyball, your options are very limited once you are above rec (with MVSA or VolleyViet being notable exceptions). So you can claim that everyone has options until you turn blue, but you know that's not true.

NP and you lost us here because there are plenty of options in between but you might have to drive and they might be at inconvenient times. As the PP pointed out, it’s all about supply and demand. Land is expensive here. Volleyball takes up space and there are only so many coaches.

Those of us who have been around a while have known many who have thought about trying to open up something but none of us have done it. So we are either still driving, paying lots or our kids have stopped playing by now. This is going to be true for many sports in this area, not only volleyball.

I wander what you mean by "plenty of options" because I've been around for a while and I call BS. The bolded part simply shows that there aren't really that many options. Stop the smokescreen about the land being expensive. Do the math and figure out for yourself: renting a gym is not as expensive as it sounds. At least the PP admitted that the volleyball clubs are trying to maximize profits. I can respect that line of reasoning because that's what they are doing. Let's stop pretending that the land value has anything to do with the cost of club volleyball. Maybe indirectly: expensive land means rich homeowners who are likely to pay.

Agree that camps and clinics are certainly the most profitable of club activities. Like any business, clubs likely price clinics to ensure they cover fixed costs (gym space, equipment, insurance, coach pay, etc) if they fill up a target # of players for the clinic. Once they reach that each additional player attending generally drops right to the bottom line. Pricing could be a bit lower, but if a club lowers the price per unit then they have to be certain they fill the clinic.

The clubs you want to avoid are those that run clinics with too many players per court, too few coaches for the # of players and/or mixed skill levels on the same court. Also there are a few clubs that run clinics where the coaches spend all their time focusing on a small group of players. When those things happen they are much more frustrating than a good club clinic that is high priced but at least delivers on what they sell.

FYI: The best deal in club clinics are often the fall programs - especially the rec league and training programs on the MD side. 2 months of development for the cost of one summer camp.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Club volleyball is a total grift. After you shell out the bucks, your child may never get any playtime. And then you have to sit there and not complain or even speak to the coach. You have been warned.

They tell you this willingly and openly before tryouts. It's your fault if you didn't think it would apply to your kid or if you didn't consider what your reaction would be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise! People praising the free markets, the greed, the offer and demand! Who could have guessed?

This debate might pop up on more DCUM volleyball threads than Metro versus Paramount, but I don't really understand what people who believe small business shouldn't maximize their profits are suggesting. What solutions are you proposing?

I don't really understand what people who believe small business should maximize their profits are suggesting. Stop doing the math to avoid realizing that they are shamelessly milking everyone? Stop exercising free speech? If they are allowed to charge whatever they want, we can also point out the greed. Look it up - it's called the first amendment.

Yes, you can call it greed. You can call it greed 100 times if you want. But repeating a word doesn’t make it true.

I’ll restate my original question: do you also complain when a popular restaurant raises prices, a daycare has a waitlist, or a tutor charges $150/hour? Somehow “greed” only becomes the explanation when it’s an activity you personally want but don’t want to pay for.

There are cheaper ways to play volleyball: park and rec, school teams, community leagues, open gyms, your backyard. What you’re upset about is that the most sought-after clubs, coaches, and clinics charge premium prices.

That’s not greed. That’s a premium product with matching demand.

It’s like walking into BLT Steak, ordering a burger, and complaining that Burger King sells one for less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the premium option.

Your simile sucks big time and you know it. You are talking as if you can only buy burgers from BLT Steak or Burger King. The truth is that burgers come at multiple price points in between BLT Steak and Burger King. You can also buy cars in between a Kia Kona and a Maserati. With volleyball, your options are very limited once you are above rec (with MVSA or VolleyViet being notable exceptions). So you can claim that everyone has options until you turn blue, but you know that's not true.

NP and you lost us here because there are plenty of options in between but you might have to drive and they might be at inconvenient times. As the PP pointed out, it’s all about supply and demand. Land is expensive here. Volleyball takes up space and there are only so many coaches.

Those of us who have been around a while have known many who have thought about trying to open up something but none of us have done it. So we are either still driving, paying lots or our kids have stopped playing by now. This is going to be true for many sports in this area, not only volleyball.

I wander what you mean by "plenty of options" because I've been around for a while and I call BS. The bolded part simply shows that there aren't really that many options. Stop the smokescreen about the land being expensive. Do the math and figure out for yourself: renting a gym is not as expensive as it sounds. At least the PP admitted that the volleyball clubs are trying to maximize profits. I can respect that line of reasoning because that's what they are doing. Let's stop pretending that the land value has anything to do with the cost of club volleyball. Maybe indirectly: expensive land means rich homeowners who are likely to pay.

Agree that camps and clinics are certainly the most profitable of club activities. Like any business, clubs likely price clinics to ensure they cover fixed costs (gym space, equipment, insurance, coach pay, etc) if they fill up a target # of players for the clinic. Once they reach that each additional player attending generally drops right to the bottom line. Pricing could be a bit lower, but if a club lowers the price per unit then they have to be certain they fill the clinic.

The clubs you want to avoid are those that run clinics with too many players per court, too few coaches for the # of players and/or mixed skill levels on the same court. Also there are a few clubs that run clinics where the coaches spend all their time focusing on a small group of players. When those things happen they are much more frustrating than a good club clinic that is high priced but at least delivers on what they sell.

FYI: The best deal in club clinics are often the fall programs - especially the rec league and training programs on the MD side. 2 months of development for the cost of one summer camp.

Most if not all the college coaches at these showcase D1 clinics focus on 16s and 17s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What a surprise! People praising the free markets, the greed, the offer and demand! Who could have guessed?

This debate might pop up on more DCUM volleyball threads than Metro versus Paramount, but I don't really understand what people who believe small business shouldn't maximize their profits are suggesting. What solutions are you proposing?

I don't really understand what people who believe small business should maximize their profits are suggesting. Stop doing the math to avoid realizing that they are shamelessly milking everyone? Stop exercising free speech? If they are allowed to charge whatever they want, we can also point out the greed. Look it up - it's called the first amendment.

Yes, you can call it greed. You can call it greed 100 times if you want. But repeating a word doesn’t make it true.

I’ll restate my original question: do you also complain when a popular restaurant raises prices, a daycare has a waitlist, or a tutor charges $150/hour? Somehow “greed” only becomes the explanation when it’s an activity you personally want but don’t want to pay for.

There are cheaper ways to play volleyball: park and rec, school teams, community leagues, open gyms, your backyard. What you’re upset about is that the most sought-after clubs, coaches, and clinics charge premium prices.

That’s not greed. That’s a premium product with matching demand.

It’s like walking into BLT Steak, ordering a burger, and complaining that Burger King sells one for less. Nobody is forcing you to buy the premium option.

Your simile sucks big time and you know it. You are talking as if you can only buy burgers from BLT Steak or Burger King. The truth is that burgers come at multiple price points in between BLT Steak and Burger King. You can also buy cars in between a Kia Kona and a Maserati. With volleyball, your options are very limited once you are above rec (with MVSA or VolleyViet being notable exceptions). So you can claim that everyone has options until you turn blue, but you know that's not true.

NP and you lost us here because there are plenty of options in between but you might have to drive and they might be at inconvenient times. As the PP pointed out, it’s all about supply and demand. Land is expensive here. Volleyball takes up space and there are only so many coaches.

Those of us who have been around a while have known many who have thought about trying to open up something but none of us have done it. So we are either still driving, paying lots or our kids have stopped playing by now. This is going to be true for many sports in this area, not only volleyball.

I wander what you mean by "plenty of options" because I've been around for a while and I call BS. The bolded part simply shows that there aren't really that many options. Stop the smokescreen about the land being expensive. Do the math and figure out for yourself: renting a gym is not as expensive as it sounds. At least the PP admitted that the volleyball clubs are trying to maximize profits. I can respect that line of reasoning because that's what they are doing. Let's stop pretending that the land value has anything to do with the cost of club volleyball. Maybe indirectly: expensive land means rich homeowners who are likely to pay.

Agree that camps and clinics are certainly the most profitable of club activities. Like any business, clubs likely price clinics to ensure they cover fixed costs (gym space, equipment, insurance, coach pay, etc) if they fill up a target # of players for the clinic. Once they reach that each additional player attending generally drops right to the bottom line. Pricing could be a bit lower, but if a club lowers the price per unit then they have to be certain they fill the clinic.

The clubs you want to avoid are those that run clinics with too many players per court, too few coaches for the # of players and/or mixed skill levels on the same court. Also there are a few clubs that run clinics where the coaches spend all their time focusing on a small group of players. When those things happen they are much more frustrating than a good club clinic that is high priced but at least delivers on what they sell.

FYI: The best deal in club clinics are often the fall programs - especially the rec league and training programs on the MD side. 2 months of development for the cost of one summer camp.

Just out of curiosity: how much do you estimate those fixed costs are?

[Anonymous]

I’m in Arlington, and I agree Sterling is far

[Anonymous]

Hit reply too quickly. Metro does a lot at GDS, and you could get there by metro+a 5-10 min walk. If you can drive and just don’t want to haul out to Sterling, both Bishop O Connell and Marymount U are running camps in Arlington. They’re more like 300-500 for the week, not the day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Club volleyball is a total grift. After you shell out the bucks, your child may never get any playtime. And then you have to sit there and not complain or even speak to the coach. You have been warned.

They tell you this willingly and openly before tryouts. It's your fault if you didn't think it would apply to your kid or if you didn't consider what your reaction would be.

That may be so, but why do people think this is good deal?

[Anonymous]

Regarding evening camps, speaking for the majority of those in FCPS that are at night, basketball camps have the gym in the daytime, typically run by the coach who's also a teacher and has his summer free and it's a more established sport by and large.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Club volleyball is a total grift. After you shell out the bucks, your child may never get any playtime. And then you have to sit there and not complain or even speak to the coach. You have been warned.

They tell you this willingly and openly before tryouts. It's your fault if you didn't think it would apply to your kid or if you didn't consider what your reaction would be.

That may be so, but why do people think this is good deal?

DP but I’ve never heard anyone say club volleyball is a good deal. You keep changing topics. It’s like any other EC. Most of us are paying for it because our kid likes it, we can afford it and are willing to drive to it. A few are paying for it in hopes it will lead to college but it’s not that majority.

Change volleyball with any other sport, dance or expensive EC in this area and you will get the same reasoning.

It’s never because it’s a good deal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Club volleyball is a total grift. After you shell out the bucks, your child may never get any playtime. And then you have to sit there and not complain or even speak to the coach. You have been warned.

They tell you this willingly and openly before tryouts. It's your fault if you didn't think it would apply to your kid or if you didn't consider what your reaction would be.

That may be so, but why do people think this is good deal?

DP but I’ve never heard anyone say club volleyball is a good deal. You keep changing topics. It’s like any other EC. Most of us are paying for it because our kid likes it, we can afford it and are willing to drive to it. A few are paying for it in hopes it will lead to college but it’s not that majority.

Change volleyball with any other sport, dance or expensive EC in this area and you will get the same reasoning.

It’s never because it’s a good deal.

It can be a very good deal if you end up playing for MVSA or Volley Viet. Unfortunately, they have limited availability. It can also end up being a good deal if your player is college material and you end up playing for higher end clubs like Metro. Volleyball is not a good "deal" for most of us - we are willing to pay knowing that we are being ripped off. However, this doesn't mean that we should simply accept it without complaining about it. It's like "We know that they rip us off. They know that we know that they rip us off. We know that they know that we know that they rip us off."