Paid Additional Coach Clinics During Volleyball Season

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

I know coaches who use their positions to pressure players into paying for extra lessons they do not want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

How many hockey players do you know? How many volleyball players do you know? You must be in a select group because the players we know don't do it. Unless they do it and don't say anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

How many hockey players do you know? How many volleyball players do you know? You must be in a select group because the players we know don't do it. Unless they do it and don't say anything about it.

A ton. DS is a 15yo hockey player on a competitive team and has played since he could skate, so we've been in this world for a long while. "Extras" are a non-negotiable, broadly understood and accepted practice in hockey. My overall point is you would never see this thread in a forum for many other sports. It's just part of the expectation for players, and parents don't scream about ethics. DD plays 12U volleyball and is in her 3rd year of club volleyball. Spouse corrected me on volleyball - on our team of 10, 7 of 10 are actively doing privates that we know about.

Competitive sports are flat-out expensive. I'm not complaining about that, because it is what it is, and it brings my kids a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

How many hockey players do you know? How many volleyball players do you know? You must be in a select group because the players we know don't do it. Unless they do it and don't say anything about it.

A ton. DS is a 15yo hockey player on a competitive team and has played since he could skate, so we've been in this world for a long while. "Extras" are a non-negotiable, broadly understood and accepted practice in hockey. My overall point is you would never see this thread in a forum for many other sports. It's just part of the expectation for players, and parents don't scream about ethics. DD plays 12U volleyball and is in her 3rd year of club volleyball. Spouse corrected me on volleyball - on our team of 10, 7 of 10 are actively doing privates that we know about.

Competitive sports are flat-out expensive. I'm not complaining about that, because it is what it is, and it brings my kids a lot.

And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for the pesky inconvenient ethics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

How many hockey players do you know? How many volleyball players do you know? You must be in a select group because the players we know don't do it. Unless they do it and don't say anything about it.

A ton. DS is a 15yo hockey player on a competitive team and has played since he could skate, so we've been in this world for a long while. "Extras" are a non-negotiable, broadly understood and accepted practice in hockey. My overall point is you would never see this thread in a forum for many other sports. It's just part of the expectation for players, and parents don't scream about ethics. DD plays 12U volleyball and is in her 3rd year of club volleyball. Spouse corrected me on volleyball - on our team of 10, 7 of 10 are actively doing privates that we know about.

Competitive sports are flat-out expensive. I'm not complaining about that, because it is what it is, and it brings my kids a lot.

Many of us think you are at a money grabbing club and getting scammed and that’s why this is your normal. It’s not that typical to start this madness at U9 and paying club fees that early. They got you at a young age and you bought in. That’s why you think this is normal. It’s not.

[Anonymous]

Sorry, my math was wrong but my point was the same. U10 is still way too young to start this. That’s why you think this is normal and see so many paying $$$$. The club sees you as gullible. We can all figure out where you are since not many have teams that young.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, my math was wrong but my point was the same. U10 is still way too young to start this. That’s why you think this is normal and see so many paying $$$$. The club sees you as gullible. We can all figure out where you are since not many have teams that young.

I didn't say DD has been at the same club for 3 years, but OK.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As someone with a son in competitive travel hockey and a DD in 12s volleyball, this “ethics” debate feels wildly misplaced. In hockey I’m easily around $20k a year once you factor in team fees, travel, plus skating clinics and privates, and no one pretends that’s unethical. Team practices are about building the team as a unit; clinics and privates are about developing the individual athlete.

Volleyball is no different. Competitive sports require investment in time and effort, and modern youth sports are also a business that requires financial investment. You can dislike the cost or opt out of the extras, but framing standard development opportunities as a moral failing just misunderstands how competitive sports actually work.

Nobody tells you not to spend the money if you want to. There are no ethical concerns as long as you are using a private coach that is not affiliated with the club. But you may have noticed that we are discussing a coach setting up additional practice sessions with their own players. This is where the pressure to participate (and pay extra) could cross ethical boundaries.

Every hockey player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club. Every volleyball player I know does private training with coaches affiliated with our club.

How many hockey players do you know? How many volleyball players do you know? You must be in a select group because the players we know don't do it. Unless they do it and don't say anything about it.

A ton. DS is a 15yo hockey player on a competitive team and has played since he could skate, so we've been in this world for a long while. "Extras" are a non-negotiable, broadly understood and accepted practice in hockey. My overall point is you would never see this thread in a forum for many other sports. It's just part of the expectation for players, and parents don't scream about ethics. DD plays 12U volleyball and is in her 3rd year of club volleyball. Spouse corrected me on volleyball - on our team of 10, 7 of 10 are actively doing privates that we know about.

Competitive sports are flat-out expensive. I'm not complaining about that, because it is what it is, and it brings my kids a lot.

That sounds like MVSA - I don't know of any other club that has 10 players on their rosters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sorry, my math was wrong but my point was the same. U10 is still way too young to start this. That’s why you think this is normal and see so many paying $$$$. The club sees you as gullible. We can all figure out where you are since not many have teams that young.

I didn't say DD has been at the same club for 3 years, but OK.

We don’t care to guess or argue but please take the advice of those of us with older girls. 3 years in club at U12 and so many are doing privates already with the coach is a lot of red flags.

[Anonymous]

Yes. It’s is normal particularly at high level clubs. Wait til you start paying for personal training sessions to amp up their strength, speed and agility on top of club and privates. Most coaches get paid a pittance. Clubs OTOH don’t.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s is normal particularly at high level clubs. Wait til you start paying for personal training sessions to amp up their strength, speed and agility on top of club and privates. Most coaches get paid a pittance. Clubs OTOH don’t.

Another one who pays so that the coach "sees" that the player works hard through a green lens. Perfectly normal, what can I say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s is normal particularly at high level clubs. Wait til you start paying for personal training sessions to amp up their strength, speed and agility on top of club and privates. Most coaches get paid a pittance. Clubs OTOH don’t.

Another one who pays so that the coach "sees" that the player works hard through a green lens. Perfectly normal, what can I say?

You sound sad and jaded. My player is a starter and doesn’t do 1:1 with a coach or coaches in her club. But does 1:1 regularly and in summer time. But thanks for trying. Club coaches coach teams.

Unless you practice 4 days a week, which very few clubs do, any player is hard pressed to make significant gains without pointed technical correction and enough reps to drill the new skill.

Besides that, if a parent is suddenly realizing that the club they picked does clinics and 1:1s after they opted in, they definitely didn’t do their homework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some clubs test how much money you are willing to throw at them. The tryout outcome may depend on how much you spend. Perfectly normal, depending on your definition of normal.

No club is measuring how much money you spend. Are they paying attention to which kids are in the gym and focused on improving? Yes.
Would you tip the scale at tryouts in favor of someone you know who is putting in extra effort to improve? Also yes.

Is there a cost (clinics, privates) to improve? Yes.
But the "test" is about improving performance, not about how much you spend.

MOJO has entered the chat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes. It’s is normal particularly at high level clubs. Wait til you start paying for personal training sessions to amp up their strength, speed and agility on top of club and privates. Most coaches get paid a pittance. Clubs OTOH don’t.

Another one who pays so that the coach "sees" that the player works hard through a green lens. Perfectly normal, what can I say?

You sound sad and jaded. My player is a starter and doesn’t do 1:1 with a coach or coaches in her club. But does 1:1 regularly and in summer time. But thanks for trying. Club coaches coach teams.

Unless you practice 4 days a week, which very few clubs do, any player is hard pressed to make significant gains without pointed technical correction and enough reps to drill the new skill.

Besides that, if a parent is suddenly realizing that the club they picked does clinics and 1:1s after they opted in, they definitely didn’t do their homework.

Not sad, nor jaded, but thank you for your concern. I am simply surprised how difficult it is for some on this thread to see a very obvious conflict of interest. And fool themselves that this is perfectly normal. That's pretty much it.

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with you, but I'll bite: What's your solution? Hold the "ethical" high ground and refuse to play for clubs that offer clinics or private lesson sessions during the season? There isn't a single one that would meet this bar, so I'm curious why you think anyone is doing anything wrong here.