Do honors programs really make large schools feel smaller?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

Inside honors already did the research for you.

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

I'm a fan of John Willingham and own three editions of his book. He hasn't seriously updated any of his research since the beginning of the pandemic, though, so his program descriptions and evaluations all are pretty dated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If your kid is in an honors program, what percent of their classes were in the honors program, and were they major classes or distribution classes?

Inside honors already did the research for you.

https://publicuniversityhonors.com/

I'm a fan of John Willingham and own three editions of his book. He hasn't seriously updated any of his research since the beginning of the pandemic, though, so his program descriptions and evaluations all are pretty dated.

It’s a good starting point and a better source than DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS was Gemstone - Honors College at UMD. It is living and learning (which is nice), smaller H level classes, and then extra honors program activities/classes. Gemstone was a lot of extra work but really worth it in terms of preparation for med school/grad school. It seems like almost all of his cohort is in med school, grad school or both.

GMU has this - they live together. And have smaller classes and more contact with professors. It definitely creates a world within a world - so makes the campus feel smaller

[Anonymous]

I would say it depends on the school--you have to research carefully.

[Anonymous]

Penn state honors does feel smaller. Most honors kids are housed in 2 dorms. They have a lot of activities together. They have the option to take the honors version of many of the intro classes so class size is much smaller. The biggest benefit is most honors programs give the honors kids first dibs on class selection. My DD has made a lot of friends thru Schreyers honors college but also has other friend groups. She was planning on going to a smaller school, didn’t get in and can finally see that she has the best of both worlds- being at a state school with lots of energy and activities while also having a small cohort of “academic” kids.

[Anonymous]

Let’s be real. LAC’s are quickly becoming obsolete. Outdated and no longer needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

Again, your experience isn’t everyone’s. At my alma mater, it is noted on both the transcript and the diploma.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

Again, your experience isn’t everyone’s. At my alma mater, it is noted on both the transcript and the diploma.

Isn't that exactly what PP's point was? So what? If you had 2.5 GPA, do you think your potential employer will offer you the job over 3.5 non-Honor kid?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids (3) went through UMD Honors program. I know parents and schools make a big deal because it’s a good way to attract high performing kids but, in reality, it’s not. Intro classes are still large and crowded. It gets better eventually but not because you are in Honors program.

UMD Honors has smaller classes.

Which classes? I can't figure out how that works, when there are kids from all majors in honors.

There are about 1,000 freshmen in UMD honors. I attended a LAC with only about 500 freshmen, and they managed to offer classes in a range of majors.

This comparison isn’t at all apples to apples.

The LAC as an institution decided to only be 2000 undergrads, staffed accordingly and at the end of the day had fewer majors than a flagship state university.

The flagship isn’t hiring dedicated professors for just the 1000 honors kids (out of 25000 or so students), and those kids could each be studying for 100 different majors.

But the perception of exclusive membership is what they are trying to sell. And, as you can tell from this board, they sell it well.

I can't tell who you are using "they" to refer to. The flagship honors program or the LAC.

Anyone who tries to sell "honors program". Not comparing flagship honors vs the LAC. At the end of the day, Departmental Honors recognition is more important that the fact your kid was in an Honors program assuming your kids wants to continue post college (med schools, phd prgrams and whatnot

Do most departments give Departmental Honors recognition? Is it noted on a diploma? Asked about on a job interview?

[Anonymous]

Mr JS, why did you lock the Honors colleges thread? Argh!!!!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

Again, your experience isn’t everyone’s. At my alma mater, it is noted on both the transcript and the diploma.

Isn't that exactly what PP's point was? So what? If you had 2.5 GPA, do you think your potential employer will offer you the job over 3.5 non-Honor kid?

No, PP specifically said it wasn’t noted on your degree, which isn’t the case everywhere.

Also, the same honors college I’m talking about also boots you from the program if your GPA dips below 3.5. So there is no 2.5 vs 3.5.

If your university’s honors college is a joke, that’s a problem with the university, not honors colleges broadly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

Again, your experience isn’t everyone’s. At my alma mater, it is noted on both the transcript and the diploma.

Isn't that exactly what PP's point was? So what? If you had 2.5 GPA, do you think your potential employer will offer you the job over 3.5 non-Honor kid?

No, PP specifically said it wasn’t noted on your degree, which isn’t the case everywhere.

Also, the same honors college I’m talking about also boots you from the program if your GPA dips below 3.5. So there is no 2.5 vs 3.5.

If your university’s honors college is a joke, that’s a problem with the university, not honors colleges broadly.

I doubt that. Which school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honors colleges are mostly there to make parents’ ego feel larger

Bingo. Exactly this. One of my kids started in an honors college and then dropped it after two years. It simply wasn’t worth the the hype and extra classes that were completely unnecessary and unrelated to the major. Lots of kids drop it after realizing this. There’s no special “honors” indication on your degree, either.

Another one of my kids wasn’t in the honors college from the get-go (notably, at the same school for comparison purposes). Even so, they never had TAs teaching their classes, as the OP claims. There was virtually no difference between the two experiences. And both kids graduated summa cum laude, which actually *was* noted on their degree and at graduation.

Again, your experience isn’t everyone’s. At my alma mater, it is noted on both the transcript and the diploma.

Isn't that exactly what PP's point was? So what? If you had 2.5 GPA, do you think your potential employer will offer you the job over 3.5 non-Honor kid?

No, PP specifically said it wasn’t noted on your degree, which isn’t the case everywhere.

Also, the same honors college I’m talking about also boots you from the program if your GPA dips below 3.5. So there is no 2.5 vs 3.5.

If your university’s honors college is a joke, that’s a problem with the university, not honors colleges broadly.

I doubt that. Which school?

Not sure why you would doubt it.

“To remain in the Hutton Honors College, you are required to:

Complete the gateway course sequence of HHC-H 101 and HHC-H 202 by the end of your fourth semester at Indiana University Bloomington (IUB);
Maintain a 3.50 cumulative GPA.

At the end of a student’s second semester at IUB, those with a cumulative GPA (CGPA) between 3.20 and 3.49 will be placed on conditional membership (the Honors specific version of "academic watch"); students with less than a 3.20 CGPA will be automatically dismissed from the Hutton Honors College.

At the end of a student’s third semester at IUB, those who have not yet completed HHC-H 101 will be automatically dismissed (regardless of GPA).

At the end of a student’s fourth semester at IUB, those who have not yet completed HHC-H 202 will be automatically dismissed. Additionally, students with less than a 3.50 CGPA will be automatically dismissed.

At the end of a student’s sixth semester at IUB, students with less than a 3.50 CGPA will be automatically dismissed.”

[Anonymous]

My kid wanted a large university, but wanted the best version of that large university.

The honors program offered a lot of perks, but the best two by far were:
Early class registration for best classes/profs.
Elimination of distribution requirements to make a double major plus minor possible.

It did not make the university feel more intimate, but that was not the goal for them. And the honors dorm was a little too geeky for my geek, they just lived with all the other kids after the first year. Those kids were more social.