Buying a pied-a-terre in NYC…good or bad idea?

[Anonymous]

I would really do the math with closing costs and upkeep as well as hoa fees and also look into appreciation (of lack of) in similar buildings. We’ve thought about this (not nyc though) and the numbers just didn’t make sense over hotel stays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why won’t it be a good idea? My brother owns a condo in NYC that he doesn’t live in, but family members use it often. No mortgage but he has to pay the hefty monthly maintenance. The super keeps an eye on it. He has plenty of money though.

It's great for people with plenty of money just like a beach house or any other second home you won't be spending much time in and will cost you a lot just to maintain. NYC fees are a different universe altogether. Prepare to pay "rent-like" monthly costs for a 2 bedr apartment in addition to sinking in over 1 mil in equity that you may not see appreciate at all when you sell. It's honestly only for someone who truly loves NYC and will be enjoying owning a place for decades to come or won't mind potentially losing some money if needing to sell sooner. The focus is on personal enjoyment. As an investment, it's a terrible idea IMHO as someone familiar with NYC RE.

+10000. It’s not an investment. It’s a luxury item that you enjoy like a car.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often would you use it?

OP here. I’d use it probably 1-2 times per month. With hotel prices as they are, paying a monthly condo fee would come out to less than what I’d pay in hotel rates.

You forgot equity you have to sink to buy one. Prices had been flat for a VERY long time in NYC. And you are limited to multi-family there unless you are mega rich to buy a townhouse. This means dealing with old buildings problems and rising fees, because new construction is exorbitantly expensive on a different level than new homes are expensive here. It's only a good idea if money is not an object and you consider spending extended amount of time in NYC at retirement, not just use it a weekend or two per month. It sounds like you can only use it on weekends, do you have school age kids who keep you grounded here for a while? In that case you need to be sure that after they live for college you will be able to spend more time there than you say you would now. Otherwise it's not worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why won’t it be a good idea? My brother owns a condo in NYC that he doesn’t live in, but family members use it often. No mortgage but he has to pay the hefty monthly maintenance. The super keeps an eye on it. He has plenty of money though.

It's great for people with plenty of money just like a beach house or any other second home you won't be spending much time in and will cost you a lot just to maintain. NYC fees are a different universe altogether. Prepare to pay "rent-like" monthly costs for a 2 bedr apartment in addition to sinking in over 1 mil in equity that you may not see appreciate at all when you sell. It's honestly only for someone who truly loves NYC and will be enjoying owning a place for decades to come or won't mind potentially losing some money if needing to sell sooner. The focus is on personal enjoyment. As an investment, it's a terrible idea IMHO as someone familiar with NYC RE.

+10000. It’s not an investment. It’s a luxury item that you enjoy like a car.

This, absolutely. Cost of ownership in NYC is much higher than cost of renting, and that's already very high, hence prices stay flat, there is nowhere higher to go. Plus coops often have very restrictive rules if you need to rent it out. You may be restricted on how many years you can rent and pay fees to do so, you also may have a hard time finding renters without RE agents who would be willing to deal with coop board interviews if this is required. Condos are priced accordingly (higher than coops) to allow easier time for pied-a-terre owners to manage, use, and rent out their places if needed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often would you use it?

OP here. I’d use it probably 1-2 times per month. With hotel prices as they are, paying a monthly condo fee would come out to less than what I’d pay in hotel rates.

What are you spending on hotels where you would come out ahead by buying? Unless you find some crazy low-fee building (in which case I would worry about reserves and special assessments) for 1-2 night a month the math doesn't math.

OP here. Not 1-2 nights per month. I meant 1-2 times per month. A visit to NYC for me can range from 2-3 days to 1-2 weeks depending on what I have going on. And the cheapest NYC hotels these days range in $400-$500 per night.

Then it may make sense for you - just make sure you keep track of when you are there so NYC can't come after you for taxes (there are apps that help you keep track).

I had no idea this was an issue. Thanks for letting me know!

Generally speaking, it's 184 days in a tax year, which is about 15 days per month.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would really do the math with closing costs and upkeep as well as hoa fees and also look into appreciation (of lack of) in similar buildings. We’ve thought about this (not nyc though) and the numbers just didn’t make sense over hotel stays.

I had been combing through listing in NYC for a long time. The issue is lack of appreciation and too many units where owners are losing money selling even after owning a unit for many years if not over a decade. It's not uncommon to see units that sold for higher price than what they are trying to sell for now.

OP needs to go to streeteasy website and comb the listings, also look at other sales in the buildings, if any rentals are allowed and how much rentals go for, and definitely history of sales on units to see if prices trend up or down.

If you don't plan to spend a lot of time there at retirement, I am talking month at a time and more than once a year, it's not worth it. Basically living there, not just spending a few weekends. It's much cheaper to get a hotel for 1 weekend a month, no strings attached, and you can invest your equity and then go buy a place there if you really want to spend more time there. It's likely not going to be much different in price than it is now. I don't see RE in NYC appreciate, because it hit the ceiling long time ago. Rents are now hitting the ceiling too (despite still being way lower than cost of ownership for mortgage seeking buyers). And if Mamdani comes to power who knows what happens. For prices to go up there economy needs to explode and wages need to go up a lot.

I might be off on this.. But it really reduces to how much extra money OP has. It's certainly affordable for a lot of well off people with a few million in NW and secure high incomes they can rely on to own a modest pied-a-terre in NYC. And there are a lot of dumpy apartments too that aren't any more expensive than second homes in and ho-hum beach condos. OP may be able to afford it just fine, it's a matter of how much OP really loves NYC.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My in-laws have one and they travel up from DC at least once a month and stay for a week or so at a time. It's worth it for them. They are extremely generous about letting family use the apartment (for which I am really grateful) and have a shared Google calendar to keep track of everyone's comings and goings.

OP here. I also have the intention of being generous with letting family use the place but my understanding is that this would not be allowed in a coop, only condos?

Correct. Coops want a community of neighbors, not various people whizzing in and out like it’s a hotel.

The entire city is transient, you may not want to live there or enjoy it if people whizzing in and out bothers you. Not all coops are restrictive. Many do allow pied-a-terre and subletting an don't necessarily police your guests. This is something to ask sellers agents about, they should know the rules of the building. Prices often reflect how flexible or inflexible the place is, with the most inflexible places where this has to be your primary residence and no subletting is allowed being the cheapest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thinking of buying a pied-à-terre in NYC but heard it’s not a good idea. Anyone here with NYC real estate experience who could clarify as to why it’s not a good idea? Thanks!

Why do you want a place in NYC? Have you already lived there? Do you have family/friends there?

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How often would you use it?

OP here. I’d use it probably 1-2 times per month. With hotel prices as they are, paying a monthly condo fee would come out to less than what I’d pay in hotel rates.

What are you spending on hotels where you would come out ahead by buying? Unless you find some crazy low-fee building (in which case I would worry about reserves and special assessments) for 1-2 night a month the math doesn't math.

OP here. Not 1-2 nights per month. I meant 1-2 times per month. A visit to NYC for me can range from 2-3 days to 1-2 weeks depending on what I have going on. And the cheapest NYC hotels these days range in $400-$500 per night.

Then it may make sense for you - just make sure you keep track of when you are there so NYC can't come after you for taxes (there are apps that help you keep track).

I had no idea this was an issue. Thanks for letting me know!

Generally speaking, it's 184 days in a tax year, which is about 15 days per month.

Someone seeking a pied-a-terre isn't going to be spending so much time there. I would be more worried about what Mamdani would do if he comes to power