Taking PE pass/fail in high school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one AO at T20 mentioned that it does not matter, but that taking PE as P/F gives an indication of the level of "gaming" in the application. The idea being, if a family is going to pay such attention to minutiae, they probably have a lot of support in the application process either via a knowledgeable parent or a private counselor. So they are going to be a bit more skeptical.

Oh, please. Most kids decide on their own whether to take PE as pass/fail or for a grade. By high school, students have the ability to make this choice regardless of any parental influence. In fact, most parents probably don’t even pay much attention to how PE is graded. Admissions screenings use a point-based system, and those points come from the core classes themselves based on the rigor of the courses taken through the end of junior year. What admissions officers actually see isn’t the high school's transcript but a standardized breakdown of it, formatted into the college’s scoring template. The idea that admissions committees are scrutinizing PE grades to detect “gaming” is absurd—it’s just mass hysteria fueled by parents who obsess far beyond what’s reasonable.

That’s your personal opinion. But if I imagine myself as an admissions officer after reading that post, I might think it looks like gaming. A student with straight A’s and no pass/fail courses even with rigorous course comes across as a very strong applicant

You’re not understanding the poster’s point. A pass/fail in PE doesn’t appear to the admissions officer. They don’t review individual high school transcripts directly; instead, the data is scrubbed and entered into the college’s transcript template. That template excludes all PE grades, regardless of whether the student received an A, C, D, or pass/fail. Other elective courses are also sometimes screened out in many college-formatted transcripts used by AOs. I think the poster’s point is very valid.

LOL

This is completely misinformed. There are very few schools that ask for student grades to be entered by the student. All the others are relying on transcripts. And no, they are hiring people to enter this data from each student's transcript into some database where they can manipulate this data. Schools that ask for data in SRAR or via Common App are like 1 in 10.

Wow. Your ability to understand the college admissions process is utterly deficient. Good luck!

DC is at a HYPSM. I think I am OK with my understanding of the college admissions process.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one AO at T20 mentioned that it does not matter, but that taking PE as P/F gives an indication of the level of "gaming" in the application. The idea being, if a family is going to pay such attention to minutiae, they probably have a lot of support in the application process either via a knowledgeable parent or a private counselor. So they are going to be a bit more skeptical.

Oh, please. Most kids decide on their own whether to take PE as pass/fail or for a grade. By high school, students have the ability to make this choice regardless of any parental influence. In fact, most parents probably don’t even pay much attention to how PE is graded. Admissions screenings use a point-based system, and those points come from the core classes themselves based on the rigor of the courses taken through the end of junior year. What admissions officers actually see isn’t the high school's transcript but a standardized breakdown of it, formatted into the college’s scoring template. The idea that admissions committees are scrutinizing PE grades to detect “gaming” is absurd—it’s just mass hysteria fueled by parents who obsess far beyond what’s reasonable.

That’s your personal opinion. But if I imagine myself as an admissions officer after reading that post, I might think it looks like gaming. A student with straight A’s and no pass/fail courses even with rigorous course comes across as a very strong applicant

You’re not understanding the poster’s point. A pass/fail in PE doesn’t appear to the admissions officer. They don’t review individual high school transcripts directly; instead, the data is scrubbed and entered into the college’s transcript template. That template excludes all PE grades, regardless of whether the student received an A, C, D, or pass/fail. Other elective courses are also sometimes screened out in many college-formatted transcripts used by AOs. I think the poster’s point is very valid.

LOL

This is completely misinformed. There are very few schools that ask for student grades to be entered by the student. All the others are relying on transcripts. And no, they are hiring people to enter this data from each student's transcript into some database where they can manipulate this data. Schools that ask for data in SRAR or via Common App are like 1 in 10.

Wow. Your ability to understand the college admissions process is utterly deficient. Good luck!

DC is at a HYPSM. I think I am OK with my understanding of the college admissions process.

And you should be really proud. But your kid made it without the nonsense and dribble on this thread about PE grades. It’s downright crazy that educated folks who went through the college admissions process actually think that AOs are reviewing raw transcripts provided by high schools, given the vast degree of differentiation in grading policies and transcripts across school districts in the US. I don’t know what to tell you all … but ok sure y’all know what you’re talking about—AOs are trying to suss out whether a kid is “gaming” the system by the use of pass/fail on their PE class … in a sea of 50 to 60k applications. Yep makes total logical sense!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one AO at T20 mentioned that it does not matter, but that taking PE as P/F gives an indication of the level of "gaming" in the application. The idea being, if a family is going to pay such attention to minutiae, they probably have a lot of support in the application process either via a knowledgeable parent or a private counselor. So they are going to be a bit more skeptical.

Oh, please. Most kids decide on their own whether to take PE as pass/fail or for a grade. By high school, students have the ability to make this choice regardless of any parental influence. In fact, most parents probably don’t even pay much attention to how PE is graded. Admissions screenings use a point-based system, and those points come from the core classes themselves based on the rigor of the courses taken through the end of junior year. What admissions officers actually see isn’t the high school's transcript but a standardized breakdown of it, formatted into the college’s scoring template. The idea that admissions committees are scrutinizing PE grades to detect “gaming” is absurd—it’s just mass hysteria fueled by parents who obsess far beyond what’s reasonable.

Default is for grade. Very very few students go to the trouble of submitting paper work to change it to P/F.

As you yourself mention, most parents dont pay any attention to this. Those that do are those that are heavily involved in the child's application. So it is a great "tell" for the AO.

Very few colleges recalculate as vast majority do not take the grade information from the common app and rely on transcripts. So no one is inputting all the scores and recalculating.

There are half a dozen other tells like this where parents think they are being smart but are undermining the students.

You’re asserting something that’s factually incorrect. Admissions directors at Virginia colleges have publicly stated that they do not use raw high school transcripts because formats vary widely by district. They scrub and standardize the data into their own template for all applicants. The UVA Admissions Dean has also gone so far as to note that they screen many electives, not just classes like Health and PE. That’s the colleges’ stated practice—not a parent’s claim. Please check those sources before repeating information that’s false.

Complete nonsense. You are twisting what Dean J was talking about.

So you think they input all the transcript data for each student into a database? LOL

Go Check out what UVA Dean stated earlier to us fall about how grades are scored and evaluated by AOs. She saves all her posts to her IG profile. She couldn’t be any clearer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:More than one AO at T20 mentioned that it does not matter, but that taking PE as P/F gives an indication of the level of "gaming" in the application. The idea being, if a family is going to pay such attention to minutiae, they probably have a lot of support in the application process either via a knowledgeable parent or a private counselor. So they are going to be a bit more skeptical.

Oh, please. Most kids decide on their own whether to take PE as pass/fail or for a grade. By high school, students have the ability to make this choice regardless of any parental influence. In fact, most parents probably don’t even pay much attention to how PE is graded. Admissions screenings use a point-based system, and those points come from the core classes themselves based on the rigor of the courses taken through the end of junior year. What admissions officers actually see isn’t the high school's transcript but a standardized breakdown of it, formatted into the college’s scoring template. The idea that admissions committees are scrutinizing PE grades to detect “gaming” is absurd—it’s just mass hysteria fueled by parents who obsess far beyond what’s reasonable.

Default is for grade. Very very few students go to the trouble of submitting paper work to change it to P/F.

As you yourself mention, most parents dont pay any attention to this. Those that do are those that are heavily involved in the child's application. So it is a great "tell" for the AO.

Very few colleges recalculate as vast majority do not take the grade information from the common app and rely on transcripts. So no one is inputting all the scores and recalculating.

There are half a dozen other tells like this where parents think they are being smart but are undermining the students.

You’re asserting something that’s factually incorrect. Admissions directors at Virginia colleges have publicly stated that they do not use raw high school transcripts because formats vary widely by district. They scrub and standardize the data into their own template for all applicants. The UVA Admissions Dean has also gone so far as to note that they screen many electives, not just classes like Health and PE. That’s the colleges’ stated practice—not a parent’s claim. Please check those sources before repeating information that’s false.

Complete nonsense. You are twisting what Dean J was talking about.

So you think they input all the transcript data for each student into a database? LOL

Go Check out what UVA Dean stated earlier to us fall about how grades are scored and evaluated by AOs. She saves all her posts to her IG profile. She couldn’t be any clearer.

No one is inputting all the grades again at UVA.

[Anonymous]

OP, I suggest reading the book, "Who Gets In And Why." It's up to date and useful for questions like this.

What I learned was that all colleges will recalculate an applicant's GPA to their own standards, so they they get an apples-apples comparison across all applications. They all do it differently and most throw out the honors/AP bonus. They often produce different metrics, such as GPA for all coursework vs. GPA for coursework in area of interest (e.g. STEM classes for an engineering applicant.) Some throw out PE and other classes all together before they start. So, in the eyes of an admissions officer, an A in PE doesn't meaningfully bring up the GPA of a struggling student, it doesn't bring down the GPA of a top student. My opinion is that if nothing else, it could show that your honors kid can manage a general PE setting, which is not a bad thing. BTW, if other posters weren't clear, grades in PE are determined by "effort" not by being athletic.