Swarthmore versus Pomona ED2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS did not do ED1 but now is considering EDing. He is looking for an LAC with access to backpacking and a strong math program and occasional . He toured both and loved both, struggling to choose which to ED2. Any personal experiences?

My outdoorsy DC's final choices came down to Pomona, Swarthmore, and Dartmouth (which is very similar to Williams), all of which were RD admits for DC. As others have advised, I'd caution against using ED2 unless your DC is very confident. The so-called advantages of the "ED card" are overstated here, and ED offers little advantage at either Pomona or Swat. Also, preferences can change and often do between now and decision time in late April.

My DC really liked all three schools, which in many ways were more similar than different. I'd say that Pomona and Swat in particular are like coastal cousins of one another.

Pomona has an exceptional math program and produces the most math PhDs outside of Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT. And, by the way, Pomona students can easily enroll in Mudd math classes through the consortium. Pomona's math program trends a little more toward academic and intellectual, as compared to, say, Williams, which trends a little more toward quant jobs on Wall Street. Pomona's orientation program offers a 3-day backpacking trip for incoming freshmen and has a very active outdoors club, which it shares with the other 5C schools. The backpacking within an hour or two of Pomona (Big Bear, JTree, Borrego, etc.) is desert and moderate mountains and is fine to good. And I think you can do desert backpacking in the winter, if so inclined. But the backpacking within 5 hours of Pomona is world class. As an avid backpacker myself, I genuinely believe that there is no better backpacking on earth than in the Sierra Nevada and particularly the Easter Sierra. In fact, just before I dropped DC off for college, we did a 7-day, 70-mile unsupported trip through the deep Sierra that included a side trip to the summit of Mt. Whitney. Pomona is also 6-ish hours away from Southern Utah (Zion, Escalante, Grand Canyon, etc.).

Swarthmore also has an exceptional math program and is right behind Pomona in terms of PhD production. Like Pomona, Swarthmore is more intellectual and academic that career focused. DC really liked Swat's campus, people, and proximity to Philly. While Swat has a reputation for intensity and stress, DC found it a bit exaggerated. DC found plenty of normal, fun-loving kids there when visiting. That said, in terms of backpacking opportunities, Swat is going to rank fairly low. It has a lovely arboretum for walks and trail runs. But I'm guessing the nearest backpacking is going to be in the Poconos, which are probably fine, but I don't think many people travel across the country to backpack there. And while I'm sure there are some backpacking Swatties, I'd bet that its a much smaller proportion than the other schools.

Williams/Dartmouth/Bowdoin: All three schools are outdoorsy and, like Pomona, have freshman orientation backpacking trips. Bowdoin in particular has an really impressive of backpacking trip options, and Williams and Dartmouth are both right next to the Appalachian Trail. There are a multitude of backpacking opportunities and most of them are likely to be closer to campus than the ones near Pomona. But, while there are definitely people who prefer and love New England backpacking, IMO, it fails to compare to the Sierra Nevada or Southern Utah. It has its charms, but New England backpacking features a lot of time in the "green tunnel," meaning that you're walking through long stretches of forested canopy and your sightlines are dominated by clustered trees, as opposed to sweeping vistas. The Sierra are much more dramatic and much of the backpacking is done at or above tree line. The vertical relief in the Sierra can run from 14,000'+ alpine summits to sagebrush at 5,000'. As for math, I know Williams is particularly strong.

Again, all of the schools above are amazing and each has its distinctive and unique charms. My DC chose Pomona because they liked the laidback reputation, the weather and location, and the 5C consortium, which is probably Pomona's standout feature.

Isn't Pomona situated at the base of Mt. Baldy, whose peak is at 10k feet? I am sure that the quality of the backpacking in the Angeles national forest does not compare to the Sierras, but the latter are a few hours away, Mt. Baldy and an entire mountain range is right there, much closer in fact than Los Angeles, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS did not do ED1 but now is considering EDing. He is looking for an LAC with access to backpacking and a strong math program and occasional . He toured both and loved both, struggling to choose which to ED2. Any personal experiences?

My outdoorsy DC's final choices came down to Pomona, Swarthmore, and Dartmouth (which is very similar to Williams), all of which were RD admits for DC. As others have advised, I'd caution against using ED2 unless your DC is very confident. The so-called advantages of the "ED card" are overstated here, and ED offers little advantage at either Pomona or Swat. Also, preferences can change and often do between now and decision time in late April.

My DC really liked all three schools, which in many ways were more similar than different. I'd say that Pomona and Swat in particular are like coastal cousins of one another.

Pomona has an exceptional math program and produces the most math PhDs outside of Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT. And, by the way, Pomona students can easily enroll in Mudd math classes through the consortium. Pomona's math program trends a little more toward academic and intellectual, as compared to, say, Williams, which trends a little more toward quant jobs on Wall Street. Pomona's orientation program offers a 3-day backpacking trip for incoming freshmen and has a very active outdoors club, which it shares with the other 5C schools. The backpacking within an hour or two of Pomona (Big Bear, JTree, Borrego, etc.) is desert and moderate mountains and is fine to good. And I think you can do desert backpacking in the winter, if so inclined. But the backpacking within 5 hours of Pomona is world class. As an avid backpacker myself, I genuinely believe that there is no better backpacking on earth than in the Sierra Nevada and particularly the Easter Sierra. In fact, just before I dropped DC off for college, we did a 7-day, 70-mile unsupported trip through the deep Sierra that included a side trip to the summit of Mt. Whitney. Pomona is also 6-ish hours away from Southern Utah (Zion, Escalante, Grand Canyon, etc.).

Swarthmore also has an exceptional math program and is right behind Pomona in terms of PhD production. Like Pomona, Swarthmore is more intellectual and academic that career focused. DC really liked Swat's campus, people, and proximity to Philly. While Swat has a reputation for intensity and stress, DC found it a bit exaggerated. DC found plenty of normal, fun-loving kids there when visiting. That said, in terms of backpacking opportunities, Swat is going to rank fairly low. It has a lovely arboretum for walks and trail runs. But I'm guessing the nearest backpacking is going to be in the Poconos, which are probably fine, but I don't think many people travel across the country to backpack there. And while I'm sure there are some backpacking Swatties, I'd bet that its a much smaller proportion than the other schools.

Williams/Dartmouth/Bowdoin: All three schools are outdoorsy and, like Pomona, have freshman orientation backpacking trips. Bowdoin in particular has an really impressive of backpacking trip options, and Williams and Dartmouth are both right next to the Appalachian Trail. There are a multitude of backpacking opportunities and most of them are likely to be closer to campus than the ones near Pomona. But, while there are definitely people who prefer and love New England backpacking, IMO, it fails to compare to the Sierra Nevada or Southern Utah. It has its charms, but New England backpacking features a lot of time in the "green tunnel," meaning that you're walking through long stretches of forested canopy and your sightlines are dominated by clustered trees, as opposed to sweeping vistas. The Sierra are much more dramatic and much of the backpacking is done at or above tree line. The vertical relief in the Sierra can run from 14,000'+ alpine summits to sagebrush at 5,000'. As for math, I know Williams is particularly strong.

Again, all of the schools above are amazing and each has its distinctive and unique charms. My DC chose Pomona because they liked the laidback reputation, the weather and location, and the 5C consortium, which is probably Pomona's standout feature.

Isn't Pomona situated at the base of Mt. Baldy, whose peak is at 10k feet? I am sure that the quality of the backpacking in the Angeles national forest does not compare to the Sierras, but the latter are a few hours away, Mt. Baldy and an entire mountain range is right there, much closer in fact than Los Angeles, etc.

Maybe it's because I'm not the most hiking crazy person, but when we visited Pomona with DS, we went up Baldy, and lord that hike kicked my ass. If that's easy, California has some nice opportunities for an outdoorsy student!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So much bias in these comments. There's a ton more to do in Philly as a college student than LA! Remember that OP when your child is bored and stuck on campus in Pomonatucky.

I don't know how this thread went sideways...but if you want to go to school in Philly go to UPenn. Being 15 miles outside the city isn't going to school in Philly.

If you want to go to school in LA, go to USC or UCLA.

Being near a city isn't anything like being in the city..it just isn't.

There are kids who want to live in a city. If they want to do a city thing on a random Tuesday night, they can do it.

Other kids want easy access to a city for occasional fun. Most kids studying at a T20 university or top LAC are going to be too busy studying and doing college stuff to be able to take advantage of city life. I'd wager that most students interested in Pomona and Swat fit into the later category, particularly OP's backpacking DC.

Incidentally, I went to UCLA. I loved it, but it's not like we were hitting downtown clubs on random weeknights. We mostly studied hard midweek. Nor did I know many people who went to the beach that often. I think I went to the beach maybe 3 or 4 times while at UCLA. Maybe other Bruins went more often, but I think the beach-life image is mostly an East Coast fantasy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DS did not do ED1 but now is considering EDing. He is looking for an LAC with access to backpacking and a strong math program and occasional . He toured both and loved both, struggling to choose which to ED2. Any personal experiences?

My outdoorsy DC's final choices came down to Pomona, Swarthmore, and Dartmouth (which is very similar to Williams), all of which were RD admits for DC. As others have advised, I'd caution against using ED2 unless your DC is very confident. The so-called advantages of the "ED card" are overstated here, and ED offers little advantage at either Pomona or Swat. Also, preferences can change and often do between now and decision time in late April.

My DC really liked all three schools, which in many ways were more similar than different. I'd say that Pomona and Swat in particular are like coastal cousins of one another.

Pomona has an exceptional math program and produces the most math PhDs outside of Cal Tech, Harvey Mudd, and MIT. And, by the way, Pomona students can easily enroll in Mudd math classes through the consortium. Pomona's math program trends a little more toward academic and intellectual, as compared to, say, Williams, which trends a little more toward quant jobs on Wall Street. Pomona's orientation program offers a 3-day backpacking trip for incoming freshmen and has a very active outdoors club, which it shares with the other 5C schools. The backpacking within an hour or two of Pomona (Big Bear, JTree, Borrego, etc.) is desert and moderate mountains and is fine to good. And I think you can do desert backpacking in the winter, if so inclined. But the backpacking within 5 hours of Pomona is world class. As an avid backpacker myself, I genuinely believe that there is no better backpacking on earth than in the Sierra Nevada and particularly the Easter Sierra. In fact, just before I dropped DC off for college, we did a 7-day, 70-mile unsupported trip through the deep Sierra that included a side trip to the summit of Mt. Whitney. Pomona is also 6-ish hours away from Southern Utah (Zion, Escalante, Grand Canyon, etc.).

Swarthmore also has an exceptional math program and is right behind Pomona in terms of PhD production. Like Pomona, Swarthmore is more intellectual and academic that career focused. DC really liked Swat's campus, people, and proximity to Philly. While Swat has a reputation for intensity and stress, DC found it a bit exaggerated. DC found plenty of normal, fun-loving kids there when visiting. That said, in terms of backpacking opportunities, Swat is going to rank fairly low. It has a lovely arboretum for walks and trail runs. But I'm guessing the nearest backpacking is going to be in the Poconos, which are probably fine, but I don't think many people travel across the country to backpack there. And while I'm sure there are some backpacking Swatties, I'd bet that its a much smaller proportion than the other schools.

Williams/Dartmouth/Bowdoin: All three schools are outdoorsy and, like Pomona, have freshman orientation backpacking trips. Bowdoin in particular has an really impressive of backpacking trip options, and Williams and Dartmouth are both right next to the Appalachian Trail. There are a multitude of backpacking opportunities and most of them are likely to be closer to campus than the ones near Pomona. But, while there are definitely people who prefer and love New England backpacking, IMO, it fails to compare to the Sierra Nevada or Southern Utah. It has its charms, but New England backpacking features a lot of time in the "green tunnel," meaning that you're walking through long stretches of forested canopy and your sightlines are dominated by clustered trees, as opposed to sweeping vistas. The Sierra are much more dramatic and much of the backpacking is done at or above tree line. The vertical relief in the Sierra can run from 14,000'+ alpine summits to sagebrush at 5,000'. As for math, I know Williams is particularly strong.

Again, all of the schools above are amazing and each has its distinctive and unique charms. My DC chose Pomona because they liked the laidback reputation, the weather and location, and the 5C consortium, which is probably Pomona's standout feature.

Isn't Pomona situated at the base of Mt. Baldy, whose peak is at 10k feet? I am sure that the quality of the backpacking in the Angeles national forest does not compare to the Sierras, but the latter are a few hours away, Mt. Baldy and an entire mountain range is right there, much closer in fact than Los Angeles, etc.

It is. It makes for a nice backdrop. In most years, it offers mediocre skiing. But in big snow years (2017, 2019, and 2023), Baldy can have pretty good skiing.

[Anonymous]

Williams! Check out the Williams Outing Club. I think they have hiking/outdoor trips most weekends.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Williams! Check out the Williams Outing Club. I think they have hiking/outdoor trips most weekends.

They already expressed they didn’t want to go and have family at the school who don’t like it. You have more hiking/backpacking opportunities in California than anywhere in New England. It makes more sense to go to Pomona.

[Anonymous]

Go to Swarthmore it is much better for East coast jobs and for ivy grad school chances

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go to Swarthmore it is much better for East coast jobs and for ivy grad school chances

Trying to find where op said there child wants to be on the east coast. Also the grad school placement is identical. You people really just say whatever you want, huh?

[Anonymous]

Neither suburban Philly nor suburban L.A. is a good location for a kid who likes backpacking. Bucknell is in a more rural part of PA with abundant opportunities to explore the outdoors without driving several hours. The math department is top notch, with most graduate getting jobs on The Street at high salaries. It should be on your DS's short list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go to Swarthmore it is much better for East coast jobs and for ivy grad school chances

More math phds coming from Pomona and Harvey Mudd than Swarthmore.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Go to Swarthmore it is much better for East coast jobs and for ivy grad school chances

More math phds coming from Pomona and Harvey Mudd than Swarthmore.

Swarthmore night product more math PhD's, but Bucknell has a much stronger pipeline to The Street where graduates can make huge salaries with just a bachelor's degree. By the time a Swarthmore grad spends an additional 4-5 years pursuing a doctorate (and making paltry assistantship pay) the Bucknell grad will likely be in the high six if not seven figures.

[Anonymous]

Is Swarthmore out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Go to Swarthmore it is much better for East coast jobs and for ivy grad school chances

Ivy grad school? Very unlikely a grad from either school is going to Princeton, and after that…an Ivy for math grad? Sure Harvard, but not any better than going to UCLA, Stanford, MIT (better than Harvard), or CMU. You seem a bit naive about the best math grad programs

[Anonymous]

I love Swat but I think it would be a very odd choice for someone interested in backpacking. And only "seniors and other students who demonstrate an extenuating need" are allowed to keep cars on campus. I would not go to Swat and count on being able to get out into the countryside.

[Anonymous]

Swarthmore is an indoctrination hell hole. The students and faculty are literally nut jobs. First hand experience.