AP courses a scam?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm a college professor. The AP course in my field requires a lot of things that the equivalent college course does not, but those AP "extras" won't actually make you better at what the college course requires, and may in fact dilute the needed elements in favor of the unneeded ones. College courses tend to be much more specific, even compartmentalized, than high-school ones, even APs, are. And students who have done well in AP and feel like they know what to expect in college-level work also are going to sense a difference when college courses go twice as fast and meet almost half as often. There's a lot less time to discuss, digest, process, and practice in a college course than there is in its AP "equivalent."

So is AP a scam? No - it includes high-quality syllabi and strong expectations, and in the hands of great teachers it can produce really outstanding experiences. The actual rigor of an AP course may be higher than its college "equivalent" in certain situations, too. But remember that "equivalent" doesn't mean "identical" or even necessarily "interchangeable."

Short version: I'm not surprised when a former AP student is surprised at college. We should do a better job of preparing our HS upperclassmen, perhaps even just switching courses to college pace for a week to let them feel it out on the ground.

Thank you for the insightful post.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid skipped many intro level classes in college because of AP credit and had no issues. Maybe it depends on the kid. Kid took AP Physics C (Mechanics and E&M) in HS. Had to take a mandatory physics class for their engineering major. Skipped almost every lecture in college physics class. Just did exams and problem-sets and got an A. That seems a risky path but clearly the college class aligned with the AP class

+1

If you got a 5 on an AP STEM course (calc, Chem, Bio, Physics C), you will most likely be fine taking the credit and moving to next course. You earned a B or A in the college course.

[Anonymous]

Another college professor and I agree a lot with the other professor who posted. They’re not equivalent to college classes. They are what they are and I wouldn’t call them a scam necessarily, but they are geared towards passing a test and do not focus on learning the material to the extent that a college course does.

[Anonymous]

My DD seemed prepared for college with her APs. I agree with a PP — it probably depends on the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some colleges are just easier or more difficult than others. its survival of the fittest for public schools ie UCLA/GaTech ... smaller private schools might be more lenient/easier. test optional as created an environment where kids not ready being accepted into STEM and their course grades being "fake". the whole college experience is nothing but exams.

Test optional? We are discussing AP TESTS.

[Anonymous]

Your milage will vary a lot at different colleges, OP. I did well on math and science classes in HS but was glad I repeated calc and chem as a freshman at JHU because they were a lot harder there. I had friends at other colleges tell me that their college courses were easier than our mutual high school courses, though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Another college professor and I agree a lot with the other professor who posted. They’re not equivalent to college classes. They are what they are and I wouldn’t call them a scam necessarily, but they are geared towards passing a test and do not focus on learning the material to the extent that a college course does.

What about IB?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, this happened to me. I placed out of Calc I in college bc of AP credit, and then felt lost in Calc II, III, and Lin Alg/Diff Eq. I presume it's bc I wasn't taught some of the foundation of the Calc I college class.

If I had to go back in time, I would have only used AP credits to get out of classes not related to my major.

This!!

[Anonymous]

Something sounds off here.

Is your child a math or science major?

Colleges usually don’t allow AP courses to replace science/math major gateway classes. Maybe Calc 1, but no others.

An AP class is not equivalent to a 2 semester gateway course in college. They don’t pretend to be, either. AP courses are like a one semester general education course in college.

[Anonymous]

If a course is a prerequisite for another course, I would rather take the prereq right before the other course, and not possibly a year before when I was in high school and in a different mindset. You can get rusty. Also, there might be topics in the continuing course that will be better covered by the same university's prereq.

And, as mentioned earlier, a deeper understanding of your major's core material important.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another college professor and I agree a lot with the other professor who posted. They’re not equivalent to college classes. They are what they are and I wouldn’t call them a scam necessarily, but they are geared towards passing a test and do not focus on learning the material to the extent that a college course does.

What about IB?

I don’t know enough about IB programs to form an educated opinion.

[Anonymous]

Prof here. For calc and econ, I would pretty much always recommend that a kid repeat the course freshman year. If they took BC Calc as a senior, have them do Calc 2 even if they place out of the prereq. (If they took it as junior and then went on to MV then I'd probably start with doing MV again if the kid feels confident that they remember the BC material.)

Same with Econ. I've had kids not understand very basic concepts and have asked if they had the prereq for my course (micro) and they said they took it AP.

Of course, these are anecdotes. But if the course will be an important prereq or important to the major generally, don't assume that a 5 means they know the material well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:some colleges are just easier or more difficult than others. its survival of the fittest for public schools ie UCLA/GaTech ... smaller private schools might be more lenient/easier. test optional as created an environment where kids not ready being accepted into STEM and their course grades being "fake". the whole college experience is nothing but exams.

Agree with the bolded portion.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something sounds off here.

Is your child a math or science major?

Colleges usually don’t allow AP courses to replace science/math major gateway classes. Maybe Calc 1, but no others.

An AP class is not equivalent to a 2 semester gateway course in college. They don’t pretend to be, either. AP courses are like a one semester general education course in college.

Not true. My kid is at a T40, engineering major and took credit for Calc 1&2, Chem 101/102 and Physics C Mech. All 4 of their final choices would allow them to use their AP credits. (all were in the 30-60 range).

[Anonymous]

My kid used AP credits to cover the majority of her Gen Ed requirements, which is saving us a ton of money. She did choose to retake the class most relevant to her major even though she passed the AP exam. For her, that was a good decision. Overall, I am a huge fan of AP classes. The ones in your area of major will give you a head start when you retake those classes (which are often weed-out courses), and the ones not in your area of major will save you money.