CAAT vs. Mindwell neuropsych eval

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

That is great you were able to get that testing for free from the schools. I have friends that got that as well which is fantastic. However, with my child's case waiting for her behavior get bad enough for them to care was going to mean a very long wait to understand what is really going on.

Every situation is different. And by the way, for those of us who have submitted for reimbursement from insurance, I completely understand why providers don't take insurance. I understand why people who get evals from providers that take insurance sometimes complain that the report was clearly filled in from a template and not always accurate. You get what you/insurance pay for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

That is great you were able to get that testing for free from the schools. I have friends that got that as well which is fantastic. However, with my child's case waiting for her behavior get bad enough for them to care was going to mean a very long wait to understand what is really going on.

Every situation is different. And by the way, for those of us who have submitted for reimbursement from insurance, I completely understand why providers don't take insurance. I understand why people who get evals from providers that take insurance sometimes complain that the report was clearly filled in from a template and not always accurate. You get what you/insurance pay for.

yes the providers who charge $$$ want you to think it is worth it, but I saw very little difference between our school testing and insurance-covered testing. At the end of the day they are standardized, normed instruments so I do not actually think there is something magic about CAAT vs the school psychologist.

I’m sorry you were not able to get school based testing. I had no issues getting the IEP testing done and our main issue was behavioral. A battle with the school could be one reason to invest in a private assessment but I think the money is likely better spent on a great consultant who can make the case with the school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

That is great you were able to get that testing for free from the schools. I have friends that got that as well which is fantastic. However, with my child's case waiting for her behavior get bad enough for them to care was going to mean a very long wait to understand what is really going on.

Every situation is different. And by the way, for those of us who have submitted for reimbursement from insurance, I completely understand why providers don't take insurance. I understand why people who get evals from providers that take insurance sometimes complain that the report was clearly filled in from a template and not always accurate. You get what you/insurance pay for.

yes the providers who charge $$$ want you to think it is worth it, but I saw very little difference between our school testing and insurance-covered testing. At the end of the day they are standardized, normed instruments so I do not actually think there is something magic about CAAT vs the school psychologist.

I’m sorry you were not able to get school based testing. I had no issues getting the IEP testing done and our main issue was behavioral. A battle with the school could be one reason to invest in a private assessment but I think the money is likely better spent on a great consultant who can make the case with the school.

You don't know our child. Our situation is not like yours. Battling with the school was not our goal nor would it help our child. Hiring a consultant to "make a case" to the school would be ridiculous in our case. People have different situations. And what I observe is that we benefited from getting a diagnosis earlier than people I personally know that relied on school-funded testing. How much of a difference that has made I don't know, I think we are all on similar journeys. All I can say is the specific advice we got from CAAT has been extremely helpful to us.

Btw, CAAT said absolutely nothing to us to sell their services to us. They were recommended to us by another provider (who recommended several practices). When we called CAAT, there was a wait for most of the evaluators. It didn't sound like they need to do any marketing at all much less try to convince people it is worth it to pay them vs others.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

That is great you were able to get that testing for free from the schools. I have friends that got that as well which is fantastic. However, with my child's case waiting for her behavior get bad enough for them to care was going to mean a very long wait to understand what is really going on.

Every situation is different. And by the way, for those of us who have submitted for reimbursement from insurance, I completely understand why providers don't take insurance. I understand why people who get evals from providers that take insurance sometimes complain that the report was clearly filled in from a template and not always accurate. You get what you/insurance pay for.

yes the providers who charge $$$ want you to think it is worth it, but I saw very little difference between our school testing and insurance-covered testing. At the end of the day they are standardized, normed instruments so I do not actually think there is something magic about CAAT vs the school psychologist.

I’m sorry you were not able to get school based testing. I had no issues getting the IEP testing done and our main issue was behavioral. A battle with the school could be one reason to invest in a private assessment but I think the money is likely better spent on a great consultant who can make the case with the school.

You don't know our child. Our situation is not like yours. Battling with the school was not our goal nor would it help our child. Hiring a consultant to "make a case" to the school would be ridiculous in our case. People have different situations. And what I observe is that we benefited from getting a diagnosis earlier than people I personally know that relied on school-funded testing. How much of a difference that has made I don't know, I think we are all on similar journeys. All I can say is the specific advice we got from CAAT has been extremely helpful to us.

Btw, CAAT said absolutely nothing to us to sell their services to us. They were recommended to us by another provider (who recommended several practices). When we called CAAT, there was a wait for most of the evaluators. It didn't sound like they need to do any marketing at all much less try to convince people it is worth it to pay them vs others.

Nobody needs a $7k private neuropsychologist exam to get a diagnosis. We got a diagnosis at an insurance covered exam later reaffirmed by school. If you needed something immediate then you can get a more limited assessment. If your child didn’t need any school supports I’m confused what you were doing anyway?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

But outside testing can be done at an insurance covered practice. And if you are unhappy with the school testing you can request an independent evaluation. And of course none of this type of advice requires a JD. I am a lawyer and I strictly used an advocate who was a former teacher. She was awesome. The goal is to get an IEP not prepare to litigate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

Clearly many of us disagree with you on the value of a full neuropsych.

yes, this board has a clear bias towards throwing a lot of money at providers who are happy to take the money. I think it is important for families that are not made of money to understand the limits of a “full neuropsych” instead of feeling that they are doing something wrong by not paying for it. It’s rarely necessary to do and can cost as much as a full course of therapy that actually does help your kid materially.

I have brdt and have the credit card bills to prove it.

The amount we paid for a well written report from CAAT was low compared with the amount of time and expertise it takes to write a document like that (in addition to the hours they are paid to actually do the testing).

We can debate whether it is actually necessary for any given child. Tbf we have an excellent insurance plan that reimbursed us for most of the cost, so my perspective may be different than that of someone who ate the total cost. We found the report and recommendations to be worth their weight in gold.

But this notion that providers who do write a detailed, accurate and custom report for a child are somehow being unethical or getting paid too much is a little ridiculous.

if you didn’t pay that much for it, that’s great. Others would be paying $5k-$6k. I have really good insurance and it would only pay a small fraction of that.

I have in fact run into unethical billing practices in this space before - not sure why that is so surprising. But beyond that, yeah, I do find it unethical not to keep in mind that SN families are often stretched financially already and help them distinguish between the services that will be most impactful. keep in mind that these practices are offering something that most people can get *for free* from schools as part of the IEP by psychologists equally trained doing a lot of the same testing ….

That is great you were able to get that testing for free from the schools. I have friends that got that as well which is fantastic. However, with my child's case waiting for her behavior get bad enough for them to care was going to mean a very long wait to understand what is really going on.

Every situation is different. And by the way, for those of us who have submitted for reimbursement from insurance, I completely understand why providers don't take insurance. I understand why people who get evals from providers that take insurance sometimes complain that the report was clearly filled in from a template and not always accurate. You get what you/insurance pay for.

yes the providers who charge $$$ want you to think it is worth it, but I saw very little difference between our school testing and insurance-covered testing. At the end of the day they are standardized, normed instruments so I do not actually think there is something magic about CAAT vs the school psychologist.

I’m sorry you were not able to get school based testing. I had no issues getting the IEP testing done and our main issue was behavioral. A battle with the school could be one reason to invest in a private assessment but I think the money is likely better spent on a great consultant who can make the case with the school.

You don't know our child. Our situation is not like yours. Battling with the school was not our goal nor would it help our child. Hiring a consultant to "make a case" to the school would be ridiculous in our case. People have different situations. And what I observe is that we benefited from getting a diagnosis earlier than people I personally know that relied on school-funded testing. How much of a difference that has made I don't know, I think we are all on similar journeys. All I can say is the specific advice we got from CAAT has been extremely helpful to us.

Btw, CAAT said absolutely nothing to us to sell their services to us. They were recommended to us by another provider (who recommended several practices). When we called CAAT, there was a wait for most of the evaluators. It didn't sound like they need to do any marketing at all much less try to convince people it is worth it to pay them vs others.

Nobody needs a $7k private neuropsychologist exam to get a diagnosis. We got a diagnosis at an insurance covered exam later reaffirmed by school. If you needed something immediate then you can get a more limited assessment. If your child didn’t need any school supports I’m confused what you were doing anyway?

I imagine our situation would be confusing for someone who can't fathom children with different needs than those of their own children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

But outside testing can be done at an insurance covered practice. And if you are unhappy with the school testing you can request an independent evaluation. And of course none of this type of advice requires a JD. I am a lawyer and I strictly used an advocate who was a former teacher. She was awesome. The goal is to get an IEP not prepare to litigate.

Insurance almost never covers academic testing, the kind you need to diagnose learning disabilities. And as I hope you know, IEPs are not binary, yes or no. I've seen a lot of bad IEPs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

But outside testing can be done at an insurance covered practice. And if you are unhappy with the school testing you can request an independent evaluation. And of course none of this type of advice requires a JD. I am a lawyer and I strictly used an advocate who was a former teacher. She was awesome. The goal is to get an IEP not prepare to litigate.

Insurance almost never covers academic testing, the kind you need to diagnose learning disabilities. And as I hope you know, IEPs are not binary, yes or no. I've seen a lot of bad IEPs.

well neither the neuropsychologist not lawyer is actually qualified to write an IEP. You need an actual expert in classroom education to do that. Schools can usually do academic testing just fine and if you disagree you request an independent evaluation. if that’s still not acceptable you can get much more limited testing for learning disability as opposed to the “full neuropsych.”

But sure go on to counsel SN families on how to part with their cash. I have total empathy for people who spend on services for their kids (I sure do) but zero empathy for people pushing expensive and unnecessary testing that can be obtained for free or much more inexpensively.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

But outside testing can be done at an insurance covered practice. And if you are unhappy with the school testing you can request an independent evaluation. And of course none of this type of advice requires a JD. I am a lawyer and I strictly used an advocate who was a former teacher. She was awesome. The goal is to get an IEP not prepare to litigate.

Insurance almost never covers academic testing, the kind you need to diagnose learning disabilities. And as I hope you know, IEPs are not binary, yes or no. I've seen a lot of bad IEPs.

well neither the neuropsychologist not lawyer is actually qualified to write an IEP. You need an actual expert in classroom education to do that. Schools can usually do academic testing just fine and if you disagree you request an independent evaluation. if that’s still not acceptable you can get much more limited testing for learning disability as opposed to the “full neuropsych.”

But sure go on to counsel SN families on how to part with their cash. I have total empathy for people who spend on services for their kids (I sure do) but zero empathy for people pushing expensive and unnecessary testing that can be obtained for free or much more inexpensively.

They don't need your empathy, they have plenty of people willing to pay and grateful for it. That must really bother you for some unknown reason.

[Anonymous]

We used Dr. Black at CAAT and highly recommend. Very thorough and detailed report which took 2 months to get.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A private pay “full neuropsych” is rarely necessary and often a waste of money that could be better spent on therapy or childcare. We got all we needed with school educational testing and testing covered by insurance. The exception could be if there was a suspected learning disability, but even then, the answer is a focused set of tests for that and not a full battery that takes 2 days and costs $7k.

If these “full neuropsychs” that they charge so much money for came bundled with say 5-10 hours of additional support to liaise with schools, advise on IEP, or provide some home-based guidance for parents (eg setting up study habits, discipline plans) then it might be a better value proposition. But places like CAAT also want you to pay $300/hr for that.

I'm a special ed lawyer who represents families who cannot afford outside testing or neuropsychs. The quality of services that they are able to get is much worse because so much is known about their deficits. Autism and dyslexia, especially, are diagnosed later and they are much farther behind when they begin services. School testing usually includes an IQ test, achievement testing, and some sort of checklist for behavior. A private neuropsych gives much richer information and more robust recommendations.

… and I bet you charge $500/hr for the same services someone could get from a non-lawyer advocate for $150/hr.

In my experience the school exam was all we needed for the IEP; then an insurance-covered exam later on when he aged out of the developmental disability category.

Also neuropsychologists are not actually special education experts and sometimes don’t give actionable recommendations. diagnoses yes, but the recommendations for accomodations and services are often better coming from advocates in my experience.

And of course, the fact that poorer parents cannot access diagnoses or interface with the school system does not mean that the right thing is that they need to buy an expensive neuropsych since they cannot afford that either. They presumably have insurance and can get great assessed at KKI or Children’s. As you hopefully know.

Not the PP, but I am also a special education attorney. I always review options for testing with my clients and explain the pros and cons of school testing via outside testing.

I would be very very cautious about assuming a non lawyer advocate can provide the same expertise as an attorney. I've seen some big messes non attorney advocates created. Unfortunately, sometimes it's too late to clean things up.

But outside testing can be done at an insurance covered practice. And if you are unhappy with the school testing you can request an independent evaluation. And of course none of this type of advice requires a JD. I am a lawyer and I strictly used an advocate who was a former teacher. She was awesome. The goal is to get an IEP not prepare to litigate.

Insurance almost never covers academic testing, the kind you need to diagnose learning disabilities. And as I hope you know, IEPs are not binary, yes or no. I've seen a lot of bad IEPs.

well neither the neuropsychologist not lawyer is actually qualified to write an IEP. You need an actual expert in classroom education to do that. Schools can usually do academic testing just fine and if you disagree you request an independent evaluation. if that’s still not acceptable you can get much more limited testing for learning disability as opposed to the “full neuropsych.”

But sure go on to counsel SN families on how to part with their cash. I have total empathy for people who spend on services for their kids (I sure do) but zero empathy for people pushing expensive and unnecessary testing that can be obtained for free or much more inexpensively.

They don't need your empathy, they have plenty of people willing to pay and grateful for it. That must really bother you for some unknown reason.

I think I was pretty clear that what bothers me is encouraging cash strapped SN families to spend money on something they can get for free, which is generally a very small piece of the puzzle of services and supports needed over a child’s life.