Experiences with language immersion schools

[Anonymous]

I am considering all elementary school options for my DS.

Important point: Neither my husband nor I speak a foreign language.

Can people share actual experiences they have had both positive and negative.

Any longer terms points of view?

Thanks!

[Anonymous]

I don't have experience directly with the schools, but on the topic of speaking other languages, particularly as a child, he/she will be fluent in a matter of months if that is the only language that they are hearing and speaking. Speaking languages exercises different parts of the brain so it makes it stronger, like exercising a muscle. I know a 3 yo boy who understands and speaks 4 languages already!

I hope we will have an opportunity to pursue somehting similar with my child is school age. I think you are making a great choice!

[Anonymous]

This is slightly different in the sense of age range but my son has been attending a bilingual daycare since he was 1yo. Much of the day is conducted solely in Spanish, and particularly for the younger kids, some of the caregivers speak no English at all. We speak no Spanish beyond whatever I've picked up from him. Nonetheless, he has thrived. They tell us that his Spanish accent is almost indistinguishable from a native speaker (I'm assuming his vocabulary is a lot smaller though). He's had no problem distinguishing between when and with whom to use Spanish and English. It's been a uniformly positive aspect of his early education as far as we're concerned - with no apparent implications for absorbing the foundations necessary for reading etc. Full disclosure -- despite this great experience, we're still a year away from K so I haven't researched enough yet to feel confident about keeping him in immersion through elementary school. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Not the OP, but how do people find a Bilingual Daycare? Are they advertised, or did you just chose an in-home with people who speak Spanish?

[Anonymous]

There are a few bilingual daycares in DC (do a search in the daycare section and you'll find the threads with names of places). Unfortunately, every place I call said they had a two year waiting list and/or were no longer taking names for their waiting list.

Regarding language immersion, my boss has had a daughter in a French immersion school in Montgomery County for two years (started with Kindergarten) and his second daughter just started kindergarten in the same program this fall. He and his wife have nothing but positive things to say about the program, so I'm definitely looking at the bilingual and immersion programs available in DC.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP with the bilingual daycare. We stumbled upon the place and chose it for the administration and the caring vibe - the Spanish seemed like a plus but not a priority at the time. Our center is called Kids Corner, just north of Dupont in DC, and yes it has a crazy wait list now unfortunately. Other bilingual daycares that I hear about (all good things) are Rosemount and El Centro Nio, but as the PP said search the other thread....

[Anonymous]

My perspective is a bit different as a Middle School English teacher......
My only encounter with a former immersion student (German) leads me to believe that it 'messes' with English grammar abilities. This particular 7th grade student worked twice as hard in my classes to master basic English grammar. She had been in an immersion program up until 4th grade and had not mastered concepts that I was teaching only as review. Her level of frustration was high and though she never blamed the immersion program, her mother wondered if it was the cause of her troubles.
Just wanted to add that tidbit and encourage you to ask questions about transitioning into English only schools (high school, etc.).

[Anonymous]

To the middle school english teacher - Thank You! These are the things that I want to find out about that I may not think to ask without tis forum

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My perspective is a bit different as a Middle School English teacher......
My only encounter with a former immersion student (German) leads me to believe that it 'messes' with English grammar abilities. This particular 7th grade student worked twice as hard in my classes to master basic English grammar. She had been in an immersion program up until 4th grade and had not mastered concepts that I was teaching only as review. Her level of frustration was high and though she never blamed the immersion program, her mother wondered if it was the cause of her troubles.
Just wanted to add that tidbit and encourage you to ask questions about transitioning into English only schools (high school, etc.).

I respectfully disagree with the teacher's comment. Studies have shown that learning another language enhances both vocabulary and grammar in English. To assume on the basis of one student that immersion programs negatively impact a child's English proficiency in some manner is, at best, intellectually lazy. I would suggest that the OP (and the teacher!) read a book called "The Bilingual Advantage" that came out last year and was written by 2 Georgetown Univ. linguistics professors who also are raising kids in more than one language -- there are some additional good books out there, as well.

As for the specific problem that the teacher saw, some kids have difficulty with grammar concepts and it could have been the way that the teacher was teaching the subject or a particular subject area weakness for that child that would have existed even without participating in an immersion program. I didn't start learning foreign languages until I was in middle school but I can tell you that the only language in which I fully learned and internalized language grammatical rules is French; I did terrible in English grammar, although I was in Honors English throughout high school and always got A's for my writing.

Back to the OP, our son attended Spanish-language daycare in Arlington since he was 11 months old and has a native accent. He just started dual-immersion kindergarten (half the day in English, half the day in Spanish) here in Arlington as well and seems to love it.

People who don't speak another language, particulary here in the US, are filled with all sorts of misconceptions about being bilingual - the English teacher's comment above is all too typical.

I would say that, unlike virtually any other subject, unless you start a child learning a foreign language in grade school, s/he will never learn a second language well -- mostly because it's not a valued skill in the US (I'm not a foreign-born snob, LOL -- I'm a native-born American who didn't start learning other languages until middle school) and because of the way it's taught. For us, sending our son to immersion school was a no-brainer. You can always get extra help in mastering math, science...or English grammar rules. But unless your child is gifted at learning other languages (I turned out this way, my brother most definitely did not), all the help in the world will not enable most kids who start learning other languages later to acquire a good accent or even master speaking/reading/writing at a high level.

[Anonymous]

I'll add, for the OP, that not knowing the language yourself will not harm your child's performance. The way it was explained to parents who attended the orientation meeting for our son's immersion school, you help your child with concepts (in math and science, which are taught in Spanish at his school), not with the actual language/vocabulary itself.

Moreover, it's never too late to start learning the language and our son's school offers (I think) classes for parents. I started learning Spanish when our son began attending his Spanish-language daycare as a toddler. Four years later, with one-hour/week sessions with a tutor AND deliberately exposing myself to Spanish through newspapers, pop music, TV and, most importantly, children's books, I'm reasonably functional although my accent will never be native.

Good luck!

[Anonymous]

I have lived in various places Africa in mainly expat communities where the vast majority, if not all of the children spoke multiple languages, where speaking and understanding up to 4 languages is not all that uncommon. I would characterize many of these children as highly articulate in English, which in most circumstances is not their native language, even more articulate than many American teens here. Only here in the US, would this question even arise. I think we do a great disservice not to immerse or at least give heavy weight to learning foreign languages.

As far as what the future holds? I took a few lit courses (for fun) at Northern Virginia Community College and was blown away by the horrendous writing skills of recent high school grads in my classes and most of them appeared to be native speakers. I have no idea what the public schools are doing in English class, but maybe they are watching movies because the writing I had to critique was in my opinion at a 9th grade level at best.

With that said, my toddler is in a daycare where "proper" Spanish the primary means of communication. My son has been slow to speak, but from everything I've read, that's OK. Right now the part of his brain that decodes language is being open and exposed at the most critical time, so I feel like I am giving him a gift. Unfortunately, an immersion program for elementary is not available in my area, but I certainly will be supplementing with private classes when he moves from his current daycare.

The OP might find more information on this topic if she posts to European based forums. Most all Europeans have experience with this.

[Anonymous]

Also try tracking down the PTA of your local public school with an immersion program (most have listservs like DCUM) and/or any private schools you're considering - you should be able to get feedback from parents with kids enrolled.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Back to the OP, our son attended Spanish-language daycare in Arlington since he was 11 months old and has a native accent. He just started dual-immersion kindergarten (half the day in English, half the day in Spanish) here in Arlington as well and seems to love it.

I'm the 11:00 poster. Would you be willing to post the name of your Spanish Language daycare and how you found it?

I did a search on these forums and only came up with DC ones, nothing in NoVA. Also searched on Yahoo... not much luck.

Thanks.

[Anonymous]

I'm a psychologist working in a school with a partial language immersion program (Math and Science in Spanish, the rest in English). I think it is great for some kids and not good for others. Some things to consider:

It is better for a child with no experience in the second language to start the program as early (i.e., kindergarten or 1st grade).

Children who have difficulty academically in their first language will have even more difficulty with 2 languages.

Children who have difficulty with transitions may have difficulty switching from English to the other language or, if the classes are taught by different teachers, adjusting to differences in teaching/classroom management style.

Also to consider, state tests are in English, and although some immersion programs try to make sure kids know the necessary terminology in English, things always show up that kids don't know because they were taught that skill or information in another language.

Hope this helps!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My perspective is a bit different as a Middle School English teacher......
My only encounter with a former immersion student (German) leads me to believe that it 'messes' with English grammar abilities. This particular 7th grade student worked twice as hard in my classes to master basic English grammar. She had been in an immersion program up until 4th grade and had not mastered concepts that I was teaching only as review. Her level of frustration was high and though she never blamed the immersion program, her mother wondered if it was the cause of her troubles.
Just wanted to add that tidbit and encourage you to ask questions about transitioning into English only schools (high school, etc.).

I respectfully disagree with the teacher's comment. Studies have shown that learning another language enhances both vocabulary and grammar in English. To assume on the basis of one student that immersion programs negatively impact a child's English proficiency in some manner is, at best, intellectually lazy. I would suggest that the OP (and the teacher!) read a book called "The Bilingual Advantage" that came out last year and was written by 2 Georgetown Univ. linguistics professors who also are raising kids in more than one language -- there are some additional good books out there, as well.

As for the specific problem that the teacher saw, some kids have difficulty with grammar concepts and it could have been the way that the teacher was teaching the subject or a particular subject area weakness for that child that would have existed even without participating in an immersion program. I didn't start learning foreign languages until I was in middle school but I can tell you that the only language in which I fully learned and internalized language grammatical rules is French; I did terrible in English grammar, although I was in Honors English throughout high school and always got A's for my writing.

Back to the OP, our son attended Spanish-language daycare in Arlington since he was 11 months old and has a native accent. He just started dual-immersion kindergarten (half the day in English, half the day in Spanish) here in Arlington as well and seems to love it.

People who don't speak another language, particulary here in the US, are filled with all sorts of misconceptions about being bilingual - the English teacher's comment above is all too typical.

I would say that, unlike virtually any other subject, unless you start a child learning a foreign language in grade school, s/he will never learn a second language well -- mostly because it's not a valued skill in the US (I'm not a foreign-born snob, LOL -- I'm a native-born American who didn't start learning other languages until middle school) and because of the way it's taught. For us, sending our son to immersion school was a no-brainer. You can always get extra help in mastering math, science...or English grammar rules. But unless your child is gifted at learning other languages (I turned out this way, my brother most definitely did not), all the help in the world will not enable most kids who start learning other languages later to acquire a good accent or even master speaking/reading/writing at a high level.

Respectfully, there is nothing at all "respectful" about your response. I am not the English teacher who posted, but to call her (him?) "intellectually lazy" because she bothered to post her own suspicions about a single student is really below board. She may be wrong. She didn't say immersion is always bad. She merely stated that she wondered if the child struggled in part because she hadn't had as much traditional schooling on English grammar rules. As for "misconceptions about being bilingual", I must say that I doubt that those misconceptions are as prevalent on this particular board. I've known a number of children who are bilingual. Some are raised by bilingual parents. Some are products of immersion schools.

I'm quite certain the results one gets from these programs is dependent on a NUMBER of different factors, and I suspect that the parents roles are a piece of it. I can tell you from experience, that the one big drawback of sending your child to an immersion school where neither parent speaks the language, and especially if the language is "more" foreign... your child WILL lose the ability to speak (and the benefit of the immersion program) if he/she doesn't continue to speak the language throughout his life. So if you do a Chinese language immersion program, and your middle/high school doesn't offer Chinese, and neither parent speaks Chinese, and you don't otherwise socialize with Chinese speakers... your child will gradually lose his ability.

That said, I think they're terrific programs... but look at the whole picture. Not just the program.