Thomas Jefferson admissions articles

[Anonymous]

Articles from 7/20/12
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/virginia-schools-insider/post/parent-group-pushing-for-tj-admission-changes/2012/07/20/gJQAHpsqxW_blog.html
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/fairfax-school-board-debates-thomas-jefferson-high-admissions/2012/07/19/gJQAL011wW_story.html

One item I find interesting is a fact from the Powerpoint presentation linked in the first article. According to that presentation, about 70% or more of the current admissions decisions are based on subjective factors like student essays, and only a very small percentage of admissions decisions are based on objective test scores. This is contrary to a claim I often see on DCUM and other message boards, where some people say that TJ admissions are mostly based on objective test scores.

[Anonymous]

Just posted about these articles in the other TJ thread!

One of the articles talks about the study that Fairfax County Association for the Gifted did on the admissions.

One thing the study revealed (to quote from article linked above)

"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

[Anonymous]

They should probably counsel most of the struggling freshmen out and back to their base schools for a number of reasons:

-the school is probably not going to serve their needs adequately, because taking math and science classes for which you're not prepared is a huge mistake--you just don't learn the material correctly. Also, while they're busy trying to catch up, the non-struggling students are forging ahead at a rapid clip. Being at the bottom of the pile in a great school doesn't do much for you when the time comes to apply for college.
-realistically, these kids are lowering the overall level and holding back the non-struggling kids.
-the 10th grade admissions process should allow more qualified kids who were rejected to get in if they do it in a more rational way.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just posted about these articles in the other TJ thread!

One of the articles talks about the study that Fairfax County Association for the Gifted did on the admissions.

One thing the study revealed (to quote from article linked above)

"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

when these activists and policy-makers complain and wring their hands over why are there so few Hispanics, here's their answer -- THEY DON'T APPLY. How are you going to forcibly jam them into a school they just don't want to go to?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
when these activists and policy-makers complain and wring their hands over why are there so few Hispanics, here's their answer -- THEY DON'T APPLY. How are you going to forcibly jam them into a school they just don't want to go to?

Nope - in the last year, 285 Hispanics applied to TJ, not 25. Only 13 were admitted. Only seven out of 235 Black applicants were admitted.

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/tj/tjadmissions0412.pdf

I'm betting you're OK with that, too, but at least get your facts rights.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

This claim from the FCAG presentation struck me as suspicious. The presentation was fairly comprehensive and well-researched in most respects, yet when it noted the potential impact of a proposed change in the admissions policy on racial demographics, FCAG described the impact on only Hispanic students, and only for one class year (class of 2011). It seems odd to me that FCAG failed to note the potential impact on racial demographics for other groups. Perhaps I am cynical, but I suspect that's because the results might be less helpful to FCAG's goals.

To be clear, I'm not necessarily opposed to FCAG's goals. I could see some potential benefits, and some problems too. But I am suspicious of how they report only have the results of the analysis on racial demographics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
when these activists and policy-makers complain and wring their hands over why are there so few Hispanics, here's their answer -- THEY DON'T APPLY. How are you going to forcibly jam them into a school they just don't want to go to?

Nope - in the last year, 285 Hispanics applied to TJ, not 25. Only 13 were admitted. Only seven out of 235 Black applicants were admitted.

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/tj/tjadmissions0412.pdf

I'm betting you're OK with that, too, but at least get your facts rights.

well nevermind ... the pp said 25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
when these activists and policy-makers complain and wring their hands over why are there so few Hispanics, here's their answer -- THEY DON'T APPLY. How are you going to forcibly jam them into a school they just don't want to go to?

Nope - in the last year, 285 Hispanics applied to TJ, not 25. Only 13 were admitted. Only seven out of 235 Black applicants were admitted.

http://www.fcps.edu/cco/pr/tj/tjadmissions0412.pdf

I'm betting you're OK with that, too, but at least get your facts rights.

well nevermind ... the pp said 25.

25 is the number of Hispanics who scored over 40 on the math test and thus had some realistic chance of being accepted.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:"Among the most counterintuitive findings: Downplaying math test scores may contribute to the continued underrepresentation of some minority groups at TJ.
For example, according to FCAG’s analysis of admissions data for the Class of 2011, 25 Latino students applied to TJ. Of those, 11 were among the total 489 students admitted that year. But three of the rejected Latino students had scored above 45 out of 50 on the math admissions test — a performance that put them in the top 440 applicants based solely on test scores."

This claim from the FCAG presentation struck me as suspicious. The presentation was fairly comprehensive and well-researched in most respects, yet when it noted the potential impact of a proposed change in the admissions policy on racial demographics, FCAG described the impact on only Hispanic students, and only for one class year (class of 2011). It seems odd to me that FCAG failed to note the potential impact on racial demographics for other groups. Perhaps I am cynical, but I suspect that's because the results might be less helpful to FCAG's goals.
To be clear, I'm not necessarily opposed to FCAG's goals. I could see some potential benefits, and some problems too. But I am suspicious of how they report only have the results of the analysis on racial demographics.

what are "FCAG's goals.' sorry, genuinely don't know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
what are "FCAG's goals.' sorry, genuinely don't know.

http://www.fcag.org/documents/tj/TJ_Admissions_FCAG_July_2012.pptx

I would infer from the FCAG PowerPoint presentation that FCAG's goals include having the top math (and science) students admitted to TJ (see slide 9 of their PowerPoint) and to have the essay portion of the admissions factors significantly reduced (see slide 21 of their PowerPoint). Slides 24 and 25 include recommendations and slide 26 is their summer.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Slides 24 and 25 include recommendations and slide 26 is their summer.

Slides 24 and 25 include recommendations and slide 26 is their summary.

(Horrible typing on a Friday afternoon. )

[Anonymous]

Let's just be clear about something.

According to guidestar.org, the Fairfax County Association for the Gifted is housed at a personal residence in McLean. Specifically, this house at 6707 Hazel Lane that is very likely underwater on its mortgage: http://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6707-Hazel-Ln-Mc-Lean-VA-22101/51755481_zpid/

It was established in 1980, but doesn't seem to have any current information with Guidestar.org, thus lacks any credibility whatsoever.

The end.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:but doesn't seem to have any current information with Guidestar.org, thus lacks any credibility whatsoever.

Let's just be clear about something.

http://www.fcag.org/about.html

About FCAG
The Fairfax County Association for the Gifted (FCAG), is a non-governmental, non-profit organization of parent and student volunteers that supports educational programs for advanced academic students. FCAG has representatives on two advisory committees to the Fairfax County School Board. In addition to advocacy, FCAG hosts meetings with distinguished speakers that are free and open to the public, sponsors math contests such as the AMC 8 and AMC 10, and annually compiles a Guide of Summer Academic Programs and Enrichment Camps. FCAG also publishes newsletters and hosts a free, online, interactive Yahoo discussion group with over 1000 participants. You do not need to be a resident of Fairfax County to join the organization.

The end.

[Anonymous]

FCAG is the only organization examining academics for taxpayers and parents in this county. People can compare what is offered at various schools and network/lobby for academics in FCPS. NO ONE else cares.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:FCAG is the only organization examining academics for taxpayers and parents in this county. People can compare what is offered at various schools and network/lobby for academics in FCPS. NO ONE else cares.

+1