Trying to minimize number of frozen embryos

[Anonymous]

My husband and I have been TTC #2 for 1.5 years. Clomid w/o monitoring and 3 clomid/IUIs have all resulted in BFNs. So we're now confronting IVF. We had no trouble conceiving our son, who is 3, and all of our tests are normal. I am 34 (and responded well to the clomid). My husband and I do not want to destroy any "leftover" embryos. So if we are successful and have frozen embryos that we don't need right now, we have agreed to keep them frozen and transfer them at some point in the future. My fear, though, is having too many frozen embryos. While I wouldn't mind, say, 4 kids, the idea of more than that is frightening. Should I actually be concerned about that? It seems that most people--if they are lucky enough to be able to freeze some embryos--only have one or two. Any thoughts on that? And, as a separate but related issue, did those of you who have done IVF use ICSI? My doctor (at Shady Grove) suggested that, because my husband's morphology is just barely above acceptable, we should consider ICSI. But wouldn't that also increase our chances of having a huge surplus of viable/freeze-able embryos? Thanks for your help. It's all so overwhelming--the expense, the side effects of the meds, and all of the variability in this process. I really appreciate any insight!

[Anonymous]

I am with SG as well, from our successful IVF with ICSI (our dx is low morphology, I'm "normal") cycle we had 4 frozen embryos. They only freeze embryos that make it to blast. We started with 10 eggs that were fertilized normally and by day 5 there were only 5 still growing.

[Anonymous]

My fear, though, is having too many frozen embryos. While I wouldn't mind, say, 4 kids, the idea of more than that is frightening. Should I actually be concerned about that?

Not really. It's hard to predict because you may be a SUPER STIMMER! and end up with 20 embryos, but, that's fairly rare. Shady Grove will freeze good looking day 5 embryos, and as you note, generally people are talking about just a few. And not every thawed embryo will implant.

And, as a separate but related issue, did those of you who have done IVF use ICSI? My doctor (at Shady Grove) suggested that, because my husband's morphology is just barely above acceptable, we should consider ICSI. But wouldn't that also increase our chances of having a huge surplus of viable/freeze-able embryos?

No. There's not a connection between ICSI and increasing your chances of having a huge surplus of embryos. How many embryos you end up with depends more on how many mature eggs you produce.

[Anonymous]

I am in the midst of my first IVF (32 and DH Is 34). We chose to do 1/2 ICSI 1/2 not. I'm soooo glad that we chose 1/2 ICSI (at a minimum) today on day 3 we have 5 embryo's left and only the ICSI. The last of the naturally fertilized expired by day 2.

I had 11 embryos to start with and the doctor suspects by day 5 we'll have at least 2 therefore 1 to freeze. I too have a child - 4 yrs old - conceived very easily. I like the idea of a backup embryo in case IVF round one doesn't work. I don't suspect too many women have lots of embryo's left to freeze esp. if taken to blast.

Best of luck with your decision. I didn't do clomid or IUI's and went straight to IVF after 1.5yrs of TTC. I do not regret it and didn't find the process to be difficult at all in terms of 'physically' ie/ needles/medications etc.

[Anonymous]

We did our fertility treatments at GW and I had the same concerns as you about too many embryos. We told our RE this numerous times as we were preparing to start the process and she tried to limit me, based upon what she knew of how I had responded previously. We ended up with 2 that we put in fresh -- got a BFN. Three more made it to freeze, and those are currently frozen. I feel comfortable with this # bc I too did not want to "leave any embryos behind" -- whether for research, destroying, freezing on into eternity, donation, etc.

We did not do ICSI so I am sorry I cannot address this part of your question.

[Anonymous]

I did two fresh IVF cycles at Shady Grove and ended up with 2 great embryos from the first cycle (after retrieving about 20) - transferred one, froze one, BFN. On the second cycle, we retrieved close to 30, transferred two and froze two (pregnant with one). I transferred each of my three frozen embryos one at a time, all BFN. I think you are correct that most people don't end up with many to freeze. From what I understand, SGF's criteria for freezing are very stringent, so they will only freeze embryos that look VERY good. Even once your top quality embryos/blasts are frozen, not all of them come out of the thawing process in great shape. The bottom line is that the chances of having more than 1 or 2 embryos left over to freeze after any one cycle seem pretty low, and then the chances that any of those embryos will take when transferred are basically about 50/50. As I am sure you well know, there is very little that you control with this stuff, so my thought is that you just have to push forward and deal with what you have when the time comes. Also, I once heard someone on this board say something about transferring extra embryos at a time during your cycle when they basically have no chance of implanting as an option for people who do not want to donate or respectfully destroy leftover embryos. Not sure if SGF does that or if you would be willing/able to pay for something like that, but just wanted to mention it. Best of luck.

[Anonymous]

Another perspective from a SG patient. We retrieved 30 eggs on my first round of IVF. Transferred one (BFP but miscarried at 11 weeks). Six made it to freeze. Now preparing for FET, I am told they basically thaw them until they hit one that reaches 90% chance of survival. I know someone who had 5 left to freeze and of that 5, 2 didn't survive, miscarried with one, and they implanted 2 (so there was no issue). I'm actually hoping we have some leftover for a subsequent pregnancy since we bought into shared risk and can't really afford to do IVF for another kid down the line. But it seems more likely that a small percentage will really survive

[Anonymous]

I really wouldn't be worried about this, especially since you are willing to have 4 children. The chances that you would have extra frozen embryos beyond that are very slim indeed.

[Anonymous]

for what it's worth., i think there is something where they can transfer the embryos at a time they are unlikely to "take"

[Anonymous]

PP- to clarify, they can transfer the embryos during a time in your cycle that they are unlikely to take.

But I agree with others; the chances of that many embryos surviving and turning into 4 babies are really, really small.

I'd ask your doctor about this... they are used to dealing with people with the concerns you mention/

[Anonymous]

Also, you can always put any embryos that you do not need up for embryo adoption. People who find themselves at the end of their physical and financial resources without any children will really appreciate your generosity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Also, you can always put any embryos that you do not need up for embryo adoption. People who find themselves at the end of their physical and financial resources without any children will really appreciate your generosity.

I don't know where the OP is, but I do know that our clinic (GW) does not allow this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I really wouldn't be worried about this, especially since you are willing to have 4 children. The chances that you would have extra frozen embryos beyond that are very slim indeed.

I agree with this... some will be frozen too long and will no longer be viable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:for what it's worth., i think there is something where they can transfer the embryos at a time they are unlikely to "take"

How is that different from discarding them?

If I had extra embryos to freeze, I would gladly donate them to stem cell research that might eventually cure illnesses and save lives.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My husband and I have been TTC #2 for 1.5 years. Clomid w/o monitoring and 3 clomid/IUIs have all resulted in BFNs. So we're now confronting IVF. We had no trouble conceiving our son, who is 3, and all of our tests are normal. I am 34 (and responded well to the clomid). My husband and I do not want to destroy any "leftover" embryos. So if we are successful and have frozen embryos that we don't need right now, we have agreed to keep them frozen and transfer them at some point in the future. My fear, though, is having too many frozen embryos. While I wouldn't mind, say, 4 kids, the idea of more than that is frightening. Should I actually be concerned about that? It seems that most people--if they are lucky enough to be able to freeze some embryos--only have one or two. Any thoughts on that? And, as a separate but related issue, did those of you who have done IVF use ICSI? My doctor (at Shady Grove) suggested that, because my husband's morphology is just barely above acceptable, we should consider ICSI. But wouldn't that also increase our chances of having a huge surplus of viable/freeze-able embryos? Thanks for your help. It's all so overwhelming--the expense, the side effects of the meds, and all of the variability in this process. I really appreciate any insight!

No. They would need to retrieve like 50 eggs for that to become a serious possibility.