PARCC monitoring student's social media, wants schools to "punish" them

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

That's all fine and good if each class is in a vacuum. Each teacher gives his own test. Some teacher's tests are puffballs that don't actually test anything - easy A. Each teacher's test is all over the map. Teacher in grade 4's test in no way relates to anything on teacher in grade 5's test - and so on. There's absolutely no coherency or consistency in test results when everyone does it their own way. That is a fact

So, you do want every class to be the same. Well, here is a fact for you: every student is not the same.

I taught for a number of years. No two years did I do the same thing. Why? I had kids with different needs and who were on different levels. Even when it was the same grade in the same school. If I had taught the same thing in the same way, I would have had kids who were left behind and some who would not have charged ahead.
Were the achievement levels the same each year? NO. If I were being evaluated on my class from year to year, there would have been years where my scores were upside down. Why? Principal gave me some kids that he thought I could handle because he understood my skills. You have no idea.

No! Not "every class the same!" You still don't GET IT. All we are talking about is a MINIMUM CORE SET OF ITEMS. All else is totally open to be done however schools and teachers like. They can teach to different needs, use different methods, supplement with whatever they like. Common Core are not exclusive or proscriptive no matter how many times you try saying it. Any limits that are being put on teaching are happening LOCALLY.

[Anonymous]

The argument about "local problem" is a fail. Most of can't up and switch our kids over to a charter school. You seem to think of NCLB and CC as an ideal. Why you think it's ideal is beyond my understanding. But it seems to working in your school. That's a local success (at least for your family who view it that way, who knows if everyone at your school agrees). Can you not take notice that many many people in many many schools have a problem with NCLB and CC and PARCC? Maybe it is the implementation (I say for the sake of argument--I think these things are fundamentally flawed), but enough people are noting problems to suggest that the ideal doesn't work if it is this hard to implement and so many kids and teachers are negatively affected.

[Anonymous]

No! Not "every class the same!" You still don't GET IT. All we are talking about is a MINIMUM CORE SET OF ITEMS. All else is totally open to be done however schools and teachers like. They can teach to different needs, use different methods, supplement with whatever they like. Common Core are not exclusive or proscriptive no matter how many times you try saying it. Any limits that are being put on teaching are happening LOCALLY.

And, YOU don't get it. What do you plan to do with kids who don't meet the minimum standards? If you push them ahead (which is required with the testing. The kids are tested on the grade level they are in), they will be missing the skills they need to move forward. If you teach them where they are, the teacher could lose her job. This is what is not addressed with all the testing and standards. NO one has addressed the problem

The kids who are already doing well will continue to do well. Some probably will not go as fast as they could because so much emphasis is placed on the testing. The real problem which this whole program was "designed' to fix will harm the low achievers more than ever. Teachers will push them to try to pass a test for which they are not ready. Lose, Lose.

I can only truly speak to the K-2 standards. They are a mess.

[Anonymous]

If schools punish students or teachers for anything that has to do with standardized testing (getting back to the subject of this thread), standardized testing will be gone quickly.

Punitive measures and threats just show the desperation to keep this testing going when people know it is not working.

If the testing were great, they would not have to use punitive measures to keep it going.

[Anonymous]

If schools punish students or teachers for anything that has to do with standardized testing (getting back to the subject of this thread), standardized testing will be gone quickly.

Punitive measures and threats just show the desperation to keep this testing going when people know it is not working.

If the testing were great, they would not have to use punitive measures to keep it going.

Exactly. Tests have gone from being a useful tool for teachers to use to a tool to stress kids and punish teachers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

No! Not "every class the same!" You still don't GET IT. All we are talking about is a MINIMUM CORE SET OF ITEMS. All else is totally open to be done however schools and teachers like. They can teach to different needs, use different methods, supplement with whatever they like. Common Core are not exclusive or proscriptive no matter how many times you try saying it. Any limits that are being put on teaching are happening LOCALLY.

And, YOU don't get it. What do you plan to do with kids who don't meet the minimum standards? If you push them ahead (which is required with the testing. The kids are tested on the grade level they are in), they will be missing the skills they need to move forward. If you teach them where they are, the teacher could lose her job. This is what is not addressed with all the testing and standards. NO one has addressed the problem

The kids who are already doing well will continue to do well. Some probably will not go as fast as they could because so much emphasis is placed on the testing. The real problem which this whole program was "designed' to fix will harm the low achievers more than ever. Teachers will push them to try to pass a test for which they are not ready. Lose, Lose.

I can only truly speak to the K-2 standards. They are a mess.

No, you still don't get it and you still continue to advance strawmen and red herrings.

What you do with the kids who don't meet minimum standards is get them the help to get caught up, or identify a learning disability if one exists and find a way to help them as best as possible, same as always. Nobody ever said to just "push" and pretend that kid doesn't have a problem.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If schools punish students or teachers for anything that has to do with standardized testing (getting back to the subject of this thread), standardized testing will be gone quickly.

Punitive measures and threats just show the desperation to keep this testing going when people know it is not working.

If the testing were great, they would not have to use punitive measures to keep it going.

And again, the "punitive measures" are strictly local. Neither NCLB nor RtTT require firings or punitive measures. RtTT is gone now but it had "teacher evaluations" as part of it but even RtTT didn't specify the evaluation methodology let alone require firings or punitive measures. "Evaluations" as defined in RtTT could mean any number of things, but all were left to the local level. But again, RtTT is GONE and NCLB does not require evaluations, firings or punitive measures.

[Anonymous]

The "punitive measures" and "high stakes" talk is at this point a red herring given Race To The Top is no more.

[Anonymous]

The "punitive measures" and "high stakes" talk is at this point a red herring given Race To The Top is no more.

It is no more because Congress decided not to fund it. However, the same Secretary of Education who promoted it is still at his post. And he still likes the ideas that he has promoted. Nobody believes this is all over when he says that any new law must preserve mandatory standardized testing. Nobody will be able to breathe freely until he is gone or until Congress passes an education bill that works or both. The power wielded on the federal level is very much in play in schools, whether you wish to believe it or not. It matters a lot.

[Anonymous]

Lack of feedback from the tests does not help to improve teaching or learning.

http://www.timesunion.com/tuplus-local/article/Lack-of-NY-Common-Core-test-info-concerns-6223155.php

The Common Core state tests are over but the results are far from clear for the state Education Department and the thousands of students who opted out of the standardized assessments.

New York State Allies for Public Education, a statewide group of parent activists and educators, estimated that more than 200,000 students refused to sit for the state tests. The group has kept a running count since the English Language Arts tests began across the state last week. Math testing ended Friday.

But for the students who completed the state assessments, parents and teachers will never get to see what answers their students got wrong.

It's yet another reason families across the state turned in refusal letters for the Common Core tests, arguing that it's impossible for teachers and students to improve without knowing specifically which test areas and questions posed problems.


Many parents say the proficiency scores — graded on a scale of 1 to 4 — are released months after they are relevant for the school's use and don't provide enough detail for students to improve.

Last year, the state Education Department released 50 percent of the test questions, along with the standards the individual questions addressed, the correct answers and the way students should arrive at the answers. The department also released how many students across the state got the selected questions correct.

The department plans to release 50 percent of the test questions again this year, but it was not provided additional funds from the Legislature to release more questions, said Jeanne Beattie, a state Education Department spokesperson.

New York State United Teachers, the statewide teachers' union, has a federal lawsuit filed against the state Education Department which claims the confidentiality agreements teachers must sign before scoring the state tests violate their constitutional free speech rights. Teachers caught speaking out against the state tests could be subject to losing their jobs and teaching licenses, as well as possible criminal prosecution, the NYSUT lawsuit said.

NYSUT Vice President Catalina Fortino, who spent more than 20 years as a classroom teacher, spoke on behalf of teachers and touted the key role assessments can play in the classroom when educators are able to use all of the gathered information from the tests.

"The teachers not being able to see the actual questions, the actual answers and use it to have conversations on their grade level... we're depriving our educators from having that real-kid information," Fortino said. "We're depriving teachers from using assessments as a teaching tool."

The reasoning behind not releasing more of the test questions comes from the need to re-use questions on the following year's exams, according the state Education Department. Because the state is responsible for producing the exams, Beattie said it is not economical to create entirely new tests each year.

Plus, educators are "not supposed to teach to the test," she said, indicating that overall scores should help a teacher's ability to change and evaluate their lessons.

But parents and educators call the secrecy around state tests concerning. Many are questioning what test-developer Pearson has to hide by not releasing all the questions. Lisa Rudley, a founding member of New York State Allies for Public Education, said she believes that if the state doesn't respond to parent requests and become more transparent about the assessments, districts will likely see students arriving on the first day of school with test refusal letters. The numbers will only grow until a change is made, she said.

"Every test my kid takes in school, we can see where they went wrong," Rudley said. "But 50 percent of the questions? Even if we got 100 percent of the questions, we need to know where the kids are struggling."

In an effort to get more answers, NYSUT called on the New York Board of Regents Friday to review all state ELA and math tests to adequately answer and inform parents about their concerns and questions. A variety of leaked Common Core test questions have been surfacing across the Internet since testing began, raising questions about the level of difficulty and age-appropriateness of assessments.

"The Regents are responsible for this system. They set education policy. They should know what's on these tests," NYSUT President Karen Magee said. "If they read the tests — especially those which have been singled out as egregious examples of Pearson run amok — we believe the Regents will gain a better understanding of why so many parents are frustrated and why NYSUT continues to question their validity."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

The "punitive measures" and "high stakes" talk is at this point a red herring given Race To The Top is no more.

It is no more because Congress decided not to fund it. However, the same Secretary of Education who promoted it is still at his post. And he still likes the ideas that he has promoted. Nobody believes this is all over when he says that any new law must preserve mandatory standardized testing. Nobody will be able to breathe freely until he is gone or until Congress passes an education bill that works or both. The power wielded on the federal level is very much in play in schools, whether you wish to believe it or not. It matters a lot.

You forgot to add, "BENGHAAAAZIIIII!" to the end of that...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Lack of feedback from the tests does not help to improve teaching or learning.

http://www.timesunion.com/tuplus-local/article/Lack-of-NY-Common-Core-test-info-concerns-6223155.php

The Common Core state tests are over but the results are far from clear for the state Education Department and the thousands of students who opted out of the standardized assessments.

New York State Allies for Public Education, a statewide group of parent activists and educators, estimated that more than 200,000 students refused to sit for the state tests. The group has kept a running count since the English Language Arts tests began across the state last week. Math testing ended Friday.

But for the students who completed the state assessments, parents and teachers will never get to see what answers their students got wrong.

It's yet another reason families across the state turned in refusal letters for the Common Core tests, arguing that it's impossible for teachers and students to improve without knowing specifically which test areas and questions posed problems.


Many parents say the proficiency scores — graded on a scale of 1 to 4 — are released months after they are relevant for the school's use and don't provide enough detail for students to improve.

Last year, the state Education Department released 50 percent of the test questions, along with the standards the individual questions addressed, the correct answers and the way students should arrive at the answers. The department also released how many students across the state got the selected questions correct.

The department plans to release 50 percent of the test questions again this year, but it was not provided additional funds from the Legislature to release more questions, said Jeanne Beattie, a state Education Department spokesperson.

New York State United Teachers, the statewide teachers' union, has a federal lawsuit filed against the state Education Department which claims the confidentiality agreements teachers must sign before scoring the state tests violate their constitutional free speech rights. Teachers caught speaking out against the state tests could be subject to losing their jobs and teaching licenses, as well as possible criminal prosecution, the NYSUT lawsuit said.

NYSUT Vice President Catalina Fortino, who spent more than 20 years as a classroom teacher, spoke on behalf of teachers and touted the key role assessments can play in the classroom when educators are able to use all of the gathered information from the tests.

"The teachers not being able to see the actual questions, the actual answers and use it to have conversations on their grade level... we're depriving our educators from having that real-kid information," Fortino said. "We're depriving teachers from using assessments as a teaching tool."

The reasoning behind not releasing more of the test questions comes from the need to re-use questions on the following year's exams, according the state Education Department. Because the state is responsible for producing the exams, Beattie said it is not economical to create entirely new tests each year.

Plus, educators are "not supposed to teach to the test," she said, indicating that overall scores should help a teacher's ability to change and evaluate their lessons.

But parents and educators call the secrecy around state tests concerning. Many are questioning what test-developer Pearson has to hide by not releasing all the questions. Lisa Rudley, a founding member of New York State Allies for Public Education, said she believes that if the state doesn't respond to parent requests and become more transparent about the assessments, districts will likely see students arriving on the first day of school with test refusal letters. The numbers will only grow until a change is made, she said.

"Every test my kid takes in school, we can see where they went wrong," Rudley said. "But 50 percent of the questions? Even if we got 100 percent of the questions, we need to know where the kids are struggling."

In an effort to get more answers, NYSUT called on the New York Board of Regents Friday to review all state ELA and math tests to adequately answer and inform parents about their concerns and questions. A variety of leaked Common Core test questions have been surfacing across the Internet since testing began, raising questions about the level of difficulty and age-appropriateness of assessments.

"The Regents are responsible for this system. They set education policy. They should know what's on these tests," NYSUT President Karen Magee said. "If they read the tests — especially those which have been singled out as egregious examples of Pearson run amok — we believe the Regents will gain a better understanding of why so many parents are frustrated and why NYSUT continues to question their validity."

There's a difference between releasing test feedback and releasing test questions. The questions come in discrete, distinct categories which map to specific standards.

[Anonymous]

You forgot to add, "BENGHAAAAZIIIII!" to the end of that

Ah.....once again, you prove why you are for Common Core. It is because more and more Republicans are against it. You miss the fact that more and more Democrats are against it.

[Anonymous]

There's a difference between releasing test feedback and releasing test questions. The questions come in discrete, distinct categories which map to specific standards.

Yes, and, believe it or not, some of those questions in "discrete, distinct categories which map to specific standards" may be poorly written and part of the problem.

That is why tests need to be carefully piloted for validity and reliability before they are used for the purpose intended. I have not seen the data on the pilot programs--or if there were pilot programs.

I worked in adult training and the piloting program for tests was extensive. If all the people miss a question, it has to be considered that the question may be poorly written. The people in charge need to go back and find out why so many may miss the question. It may not be a factor of poor instruction. Did PARCC do this with their tests?

Of course, since the standards did not go through a vetting process, we do not know if it could be a problem of an inappropriate standard.

Were the questions tested for reliability?

And, all this money spent on PARCC, and they cannot afford to write new test questions? Something wrong with this picture, too. They should certainly be able to have multiple versions of the tests.

[Anonymous]

What you do with the kids who don't meet minimum standards is get them the help to get caught up, or identify a learning disability if one exists and find a way to help them as best as possible, same as always. Nobody ever said to just "push" and pretend that kid doesn't have a problem.

Of course you do this. However, there are many reasons that kids can be behind besides learning disabilities. First, did you now that some young kids who are behind do not qualify for LD services because they are just borderline "slow"? They do not qualify until they are in a higher grade and further "behind".

And, what about the third grade teacher with a child on first grade level? The child is on that level for lots of reasons that may not be a learning disability. Could be home issues, behavior issues, truancy issues, health issues, language issues. And, that child can make progress and improve--but two years of progress in one year? With some, but certainly not all. And, it is not a factor of poor K and 1 teachers. That may be a factor, but it is rare.

Do you know that some kids start K without knowing the alphabet? First, you have to teach them to distinguish and understand the "same and different". When they have not ever worked with letters, it may be hard for them to distinguish between an "M" and an "N". That comes first. Teaching the sounds that go with those letters is key--but first they have to be able to distinguish them. Teaching sounds is another challenge. Some of these kids have never listened to rhyming words and that is a first step. Yet, CC expects all those kids to read by the end of the year. And, consider, these kids come from homes that may not be as supportive as we would all like.

Teaching is a building process- it is based on building on fundamentals. Fundamentals which need to be constantly reinforced. It is not a matter of "today we teach the sounds of 'M'...tomorrow we move on to 'n'......it doesn't work that way.



How many years have you taught in the schools?