Math acceleration: does it actually benefit the kid?

[Anonymous]

My MCPS rising 8th grader has told me a number of times over the past few months that he wants to take Geometry next summer to "get ahead". Apparently, the majority of his friends took Algebra in 7th, and he wants to catch up to them, so he can be in their classes and also because he wants to be seen as a "smart kid".

I'm going to be honest and say that my kid's not a math whiz. He's an A/B student, and the things that excite his interest are not math/science related. He'll talk your ear off about politics, ask a million questions about religion, and right now he wants to study ancient history and archeology. Of course like most kids he has changed his mind, but since he was tiny he's never mentioned a career that involves math or science. It's just not his thing. I asked him if part of his goal would be to be able to take advanced math in college and he told me he doesn't intend to study math in college at all.

I suspect that in the end, I'll let him do what he wants, but I'm curious what the pluses and minuses would be from a college point of view. From a non-college point of view I see the pluses as: 1) something cheap to keep him busy during the summer (which will be nice after paying a fortune for camp for the past 9 years), 2) If it works, he'll get to be with his friends in math class, and 3) It reinforces his self image as a "smart kid". As far as minuses it's 1) worry he'll burn himself out without a break from academics, 2) missing out on opportunities for sports and arts, both of which he likes and 3) the class may contain a lot of kids who are repeated and not motivated, my kid is pretty distracted and annoyed by kids who misbehave, and I wonder if he'll learn as much in that setting. I'm hoping this may matter less in Geometry, than it would if he was taking Algebra 1 in the summer, just because Geometry seems to have

But I wonder, what are the pros and cons from a college perspective? This will put him on track to take Calculus junior year.

On one hand, if guess if he gets A's in math, and goes on to take Multivariable calculus his senior year, it will look great for admissions. On the other hand, what if he finds that the advanced math isn't for him? How would it look not to take math senior year, or to take Calc AB and then BC or AB and then stats? How would it look if he gets to Calc and finds it's really hard for him, and he gets mediocre grades. If that were to happen senior year (e.g. not taking summer school) then schools won't really see it, but if he takes it Junior Year, and does poorly, it's on his transcript for everyone to see.

Thoughts?

[Anonymous]

I'm a little confused. His friends took Algebra in 7th, which means they are taking Geometry in 8th. Why does he want to take Geometry over the summer, then? Wouldn't he need to take Algebra over the summer, if he wants to take Geometry with his friends in the fall?

I would think AP Statistics would be fine for senior year. Unless somewhere along the way he decides that he loves math and wants to major in it in college.

[Anonymous]

He's taking Algebra this coming school year (8th grade), and hoping to take Geometry next summer so he's caught up by the beginning of 9th. That is, caught up as in 2 years ahead of the national norm like some of his friends.

I think if there was an option of taking Algebra this summer, he'd jump at it but in MCPS you can only take HS courses in the summer once you've graduated from middle school. I'd also worry more, I think, about whether he'd master everything he needed in 6 weeks to be ready for Algebra 2. I feel like Geometry is a little more forgiving because there's not Geometry 2.

[Anonymous]

Honestly, it depends on the kid, and you know your kid better than we do. Your kid is also likely to change a lot over the next few years, too.

It looks like you have another year to think about this, since you're talking about Geometry for next summer. That's a good thing, and there's no need to make decisions on this now.

[Anonymous]

it's a good problem to have. If he's enthusiastic about taking Algebra so he can get into Geometry just go along with it. No downside at all that I can see

[Anonymous]

I can't fathom why you would not let him do what he wants. Give him some autonomy when it comes to his intellectual life, at least!

[Anonymous]

I am actually interested in knowing what the benefit is also. My son is going into 7th and I chose to take "normal" math. For his school I guess that is whatever comes before Algebra where a bunch of his friends are taking a class this summer to get into Algebra in 7th, Geometry in 8th, Algebra 2 in 9th, Pre-Algebra in 10th and Calculus in 11th.

I think it would be fine if he has Algebra in 8th and eventually has Calculus in 12th.

I know 2 kids that finished all their credits for Math Junior year -- actually almost all their credits for school and ended up going to community college for their senior year because they did not have any more requirements.

So I don't really see the point of pushing it.

[Anonymous]

You've got the whole school year of Algebra to get through. See how he does. If he's finding it a bit hard, you and he can have a discussion (with input from his teachers) about whether it's a good idea for him to take Geometry over the summer, which would mean doing it at a faster more intense pace. No need to make the call now. You'll all have more data about his academic ability, and his interest in doing it.

[Anonymous]

I tested out of math before starting college, never took math in college, and ended up at the end of college not prepared for some of the math I needed to do quickly at my job and in life. It was nice to get all the requirements out of the way, but I'd take some sort of refresher math course (ideally a life skills math course) one summer or semester to be prepared to use math after graduation if not pursuing a major with math requirements.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My MCPS rising 8th grader has told me a number of times over the past few months that he wants to take Geometry next summer to "get ahead". Apparently, the majority of his friends took Algebra in 7th, and he wants to catch up to them, so he can be in their classes and also because he wants to be seen as a "smart kid".

I'm going to be honest and say that my kid's not a math whiz. He's an A/B student, and the things that excite his interest are not math/science related. He'll talk your ear off about politics, ask a million questions about religion, and right now he wants to study ancient history and archeology. Of course like most kids he has changed his mind, but since he was tiny he's never mentioned a career that involves math or science. It's just not his thing. I asked him if part of his goal would be to be able to take advanced math in college and he told me he doesn't intend to study math in college at all.

I suspect that in the end, I'll let him do what he wants, but I'm curious what the pluses and minuses would be from a college point of view. From a non-college point of view I see the pluses as: 1) something cheap to keep him busy during the summer (which will be nice after paying a fortune for camp for the past 9 years), 2) If it works, he'll get to be with his friends in math class, and 3) It reinforces his self image as a "smart kid". As far as minuses it's 1) worry he'll burn himself out without a break from academics, 2) missing out on opportunities for sports and arts, both of which he likes and 3) the class may contain a lot of kids who are repeated and not motivated, my kid is pretty distracted and annoyed by kids who misbehave, and I wonder if he'll learn as much in that setting. I'm hoping this may matter less in Geometry, than it would if he was taking Algebra 1 in the summer, just because Geometry seems to have

But I wonder, what are the pros and cons from a college perspective? This will put him on track to take Calculus junior year.

On one hand, if guess if he gets A's in math, and goes on to take Multivariable calculus his senior year, it will look great for admissions. On the other hand, what if he finds that the advanced math isn't for him? How would it look not to take math senior year, or to take Calc AB and then BC or AB and then stats? How would it look if he gets to Calc and finds it's really hard for him, and he gets mediocre grades. If that were to happen senior year (e.g. not taking summer school) then schools won't really see it, but if he takes it Junior Year, and does poorly, it's on his transcript for everyone to see.

Thoughts?

I too find this post a little confusing? The way it usually works is Alegra I, Geometry, Algebra II, Pre Calc, Calc and then Cal AB. Only the best and brightest will move on to Calc BC. That course is really not necessary if you have no intention of taking math as a major in college. Statis is often sbustituted. Even the highly selective scools only rquire 4 years of math which easily exclude BC.

[Anonymous]

I just want to interject and mention that a lot of kids who are great at Algebra seem to struggle with Geometry, because it is so different. My youngest was one of these kids (he took Geometry in 8th grade). Some of his friends had to get tutors; my son was able to maintain good grades by having his brother help him. I cannot imagine taking Geometry as a summer school class, unless it was to repeat the class for a better grade.

[Anonymous]

I do agree that Algebra and Geometry are different. I was one of those who found Geom a breeze but had to work a bit at the Algebra I, and then definitely even more for Algebra II.

That said: my parents tried to "slow me down" on mat also. I wanted to take algebra in 8th grade (which was the "advanced" thing to do back in the late 80s) and they thought they were being the sage voice of reason in advising me not to, that there was no rush, etc. I always hated how this made me a year behind my friends, and it sort of inculcated in me a belief that math "wasn't my thing." Granted, it wasn't really my thing up until that point, but I do believe it could have gone either way, and by my parents telling me repeatedly that "mat wasn't my thing," I think made it sink even more into my head.

Now, before you go scratching your head, DCUMers, and be like, "Why would a parent do this to their kid?" they were really just trying to be the old-fashioned kind of American parents we all talk about: "Why not let a kid just be a kid?" "What's the rush????" "Can't a kid just ride bikes during the summer time for gosh sakes? " etc. They truly thought they were doing the best for me. In retrospect to this day, however, I think I should have gone with Algebra in 8th grade. I had always been in the "smart group" and not being in that from that point on always killed me. It smarted.

[Anonymous]

Ugh: math not mat!!

[Anonymous]

I took geometry over the summer and would recommend it. You are taking one class and getting all the help you need if you have difficulties with math because it's just the teacher and one class. I'm pretty sure over half the class got an A or B.

That being said, it in NO way helped me in high school other than I was able to take calc senior year.

[Anonymous]

20:48 here....

I should mention this was back when it went algebra, geometry, algebra ii, trig, calc ab or calc bc

Like a PP mentioned, most took calc ab....calc bc was for those kids that were truly gifted and planned to do math in the many, many years ahead.