Last minute plan B if schools don’t open?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Those of you angry about school closures or virtual learning, whose kids struggled so much last school year, will you do your part to make school safe and open by opting IN to in-school asymptomatic testing, respecting travel quarantine rules, avoiding indoor sports and unmasked indoor gatherings this winter? Will you make sure your kid stays home when sick, and provide them with a well-fitting quality mask?

No, but I will advocate for the thing that will ACTUALLY make it safer: mandatory vax for all adults in dcps schools.

It is not just mandatory vax in the DCPS community, you need all eligible people vaccinated in DC. DCPS is not some magical isolated environment

[Anonymous]

I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

Unless you are going to keep classes going in person EXCEPT for the positive person, you cannot effectively do asymptomatic testing. It will be too disruptive. I am anti-testing kids without symptoms until they change the quarantine rules to only the symptomatic and positive people need to stay home. Full stop. If that were the position, I would be in all favor of as widespread and often testing as possible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

The purpose of the question is to see the overlap between those who reject virtual learning and those who reject measures that would make in-person learning safe. It's obviously not asking to commit to a laundry list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

The purpose of the question is to see the overlap between those who reject virtual learning and those who reject measures that would make in-person learning safe. It's obviously not asking to commit to a laundry list.

Ah, so you are trying to do a study on an anonymous forum! Well, that’s just as pointless.

[Anonymous]

Under no circumstances should we be closing public schools in an area with mandated masking *and* 90% of eligible residents with at least one dose of the vaccine (over 80% fully vaccinated).

MCPS has every advantage here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Under no circumstances should we be closing public schools in an area with mandated masking *and* 90% of eligible residents with at least one dose of the vaccine (over 80% fully vaccinated).

MCPS has every advantage here.

Oops sorry, didn’t realize this was the DCPS forum.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

The purpose of the question is to see the overlap between those who reject virtual learning and those who reject measures that would make in-person learning safe. It's obviously not asking to commit to a laundry list.

Ah, so you are trying to do a study on an anonymous forum! Well, that’s just as pointless.

I don't know where you're going with this existential questioning. Any conversation on here is pointless. You could also just tell me to shut up. Or go whine in Website Feedback to find out whether I'm inconsistent in my posts and 'just fear-mongering" or "have an agenda."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

The purpose of the question is to see the overlap between those who reject virtual learning and those who reject measures that would make in-person learning safe. It's obviously not asking to commit to a laundry list.

and I am saying that your “commitments” are largely pointless until ALL adults in DCPS are vaccinated. I’ll follow the rules as I encounter them. Won’t worry about the stupid ones nobody enforces (travel).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:LUNCH IN THE CAFETERIA IS THE PROBLEM

I see this has become the new drumbeat. It’s always something.

Some of us have had no choice but to send our kids to school or daycare of done kind during the pandemic. Those of us with younger kids may have tried to tough it out at home for a bit, but you cannot keep a 5 yr old at home full time while also working full time, especially if you have to be in person for any of that time. Many people don’t have room or money for a nanny, and some kids need to be in a classroom environment for socio-emotional reasons.

Point is, many of our kids have been in school environments where they wear masks except for meals for months and months. And what we’ve learned is that it’s fine. Meals are a time when it’s relatively easy to keep kids social distanced, and with proper ventilation, the risk really doesn’t seem to be high. Could a child come in shedding virus and transmit it during lunch? Yes, but it’s as if not more likely to happen at a time when the kids are close to each other and interacting. Combined with other precautions (temp checks, strict rules about kids staying home with ANY symptom, and quarantine rules for travel, plus masks and good HVAC) it’s okay and outbreaks are minimized. My kid’s PK has not had a single positive case all year, and kids had to be tested after any travel even if asymptomatic.


You need to stop getting hung up on what you perceived as individual flask points of risk. Outdoor lunch every day is not feasible because of weather and the limited outdoor space at many schools. So let’s look for other ways to mitigate and not obsess over this one thing. Big picture.

exactly. I think this fixation also comes from an unfortunate overestimation of the protection afforded by cloth masks.

And from a fixation on the perceived risk free environment of school and cafeterias the entire time they have had children prior to Covid.

+1 It is an uncomfortable but inevitable truth of parenting that there are lots of threats to your kid at any given time even without a pandemic. So many parents (and people in general) are basing risk assessments based exclusively on the novelty of risk instead of the actual threat posed. Covid is novel and thus VERY SCARY and cars are mundane and thus an acceptable risk. But your child is far more likely to be injured or die in a car accident than to get sick or die from Covid. And yet you have people screaming about outdoor lunch and then packing the kids up the SUV and driving 5 hours on highways to grandmas house twice a month. It's exhausting.

Folks at many schools last year lunch was handled by small class a eating in their classrooms or outdoors. They were six feet apart. Typically there are between 5-8 classes eating together in the cafeteria at a time, often squashed together and, obviously, unmasked. That is anywhere from 125-200 students together in a small room. I’m not suggesting they’ll all die. But the likelihood of catching Covid is certainly higher in this situation. I think it needs to be addressed. Strategies like eating in rooms or outside were feasible with a very limited number of students in the building but become more complicated with all students back.

Why would it be more complicated? There are enough classrooms for all the kids to be in class at the same time, so kids can still eat in classrooms, and everything I've heard from our school is that they will continue to do so. I don't understand where this fear is even coming from. Have you talked to your school, and have they said they are going to lunch in the lunchroom just like pre-Covid? The only place I've even heard this suggested is on DCUM.

Stop just making stuff up in an effort to scare people out of IPL. If you don't want to send your kids to school, don't. You can homeschool. But I cannot homeschool, it's not even on the table for me.

I’m not making anything up. And I most certainly don’t want to scare people. I firmly believe IPL is best, even with Delta. It becomes more complicated with more students in the buildings for several reasons. First, there aren’t enough staff members to cover individual class lunch duties (teachers need a lunch break too). Second, last year lunches were delivered to individual classrooms with many fewer students. This was sometimes difficult to achieve even then. Many more cafeteria staff will be needed to handle that with everyone back. Thirdly, sheltered outdoor space is very limited at most schools. You’d have to have some very early and very late lunch times to accommodate that. This is not rocket science and can be handled for every school, I think. But it needs to be addressed and planned for in advance or it will become a messy issue (pun intended).

Oh come on. It’s not complicated at all. You mandate that all students bring their own lunches except for those with need who qualify for free lunches. Those lunches are ones that don’t require heating and can last in room temperature for a few hours and you have personnel drop the needed number in all classes before school begins. Everyone eats in their classroom and no one leaves the classroom during school hours except to go outside. It’s really really not difficult[/quote

Your plan does not address key issues but at least we agree this should be planned for ahead of time. That was my point.

[Anonymous]

Your plan does not address key issues but at least we agree this should be planned for ahead of time. That was my point.

[Anonymous]

If no one leaves the classroom except to go outside then we are back in the no-school wednesday zone since teacher's need planning time. I cant speak for others but no-school wednesday was worse for us than distance learning and required a lot of compromises with our work. Now that we are about to have to go back into the office it would be a logistical nightmare.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If no one leaves the classroom except to go outside then we are back in the no-school wednesday zone since teacher's need planning time. I cant speak for others but no-school wednesday was worse for us than distance learning and required a lot of compromises with our work. Now that we are about to have to go back into the office it would be a logistical nightmare.

Damn, I loved no-school Wednesdays. There could be a compromise there, with optional in-person asynchronous Wednesdays.

[Anonymous]

to add some findings about the UK and Germany, and their experiences with the delta variant:

"We heard that the symptoms of adults getting COVID-19 through the delta variant varied compared with the original strain. Now you're saying, just to clarify, that there is no difference whatsoever with children?

No difference that we could determine at this point. We do have a national registry where all hospitalized children with COVID-19 are reported, and we don't have any difference in the last month compared to the months before. And the same is true if you talk to pediatricians in the UK for example: They don't see a difference either. Children do have mild symptoms usually, but they don't get very sick with the delta variant.

https://www.dw.com/en/delta-variant-will-returning-to-school-put-kids-at-risk/a-58579300

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never seen anyone, no matter how much in favor of IPL, say they would send their kids to school with Covid. Come on.

Also, asking an anonymous poster to commit to doing everything on your personal laundry list of safety precautions is beyond pointless. An excuse to argue.

I am in favor of asymptomatic testing, cohosting rules, travel restrictions and quarantines. Also favor masking and even brief periods of DL if the public health situation merits it (talking hiring rates not only of Covid but of hospitalizations, and obviously any uptick in serious illnesses or death should be taken very seriously), though I would like to see them linked to specific Covid metrics so that we know when we can ditch these measures, which I think have the most significant negative impact on school.

Once the policies are in place, you assume some amount of freeloading and rule breaking. I'm not going to freak out about that and I'm not going to expect or require 100% compliance because it's unrealistic. We're talking risk mitigation. 100% would be ideal, but 80% is pretty good.

And then I think public health policy makers need to go all in on vaccination. Bribes, rewards, requirements wherever we can. Restrictions and inconveniences for people who can vax and don't. I mean, the first thing we need to do is get rid of the emergency status for the adult vaccinations because that will actually free governments to do things like require vaccination or limit what unvaccinated people can do. And that should trickle down to kids as the vaccine is available to them. Very hard to require a vaccine under an emergency provision in order to go to school. Much easier once it has a regular approval. We need to be pushing on those decisions and doing whatever additional trials or research is necessary to get these vaccines to full approval for all ages as soon as possible.

Until then, accept there will be some measure of risk in schools. Do what we can to mitigate, but also just accept we have to live with it. Telling people "Your kids can't go to school in person unless we can guarantee that all people will comply 100% with restrictions until we have 100% vaccine uptake" is just another way of saying "No school for the foreseeable future.

The purpose of the question is to see the overlap between those who reject virtual learning and those who reject measures that would make in-person learning safe. It's obviously not asking to commit to a laundry list.

and I am saying that your “commitments” are largely pointless until ALL adults in DCPS are vaccinated. I’ll follow the rules as I encounter them. Won’t worry about the stupid ones nobody enforces (travel).

Yeah I get you think the travel one is pointless, but others don’t. If others can’t pick and choose, you shouldn’t either. It is awful to say “so sorry your kid got sick, mine didn’t.”