Attendance pressure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

[Anonymous]

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

What a weird reaction— parents get work for their traveling kids every day. Isn’t this what you want? Parents working with their kids out of school?

Really nothing will satisfy you. Don’t take kids out — even if there is a sub or non important materials. Don't fall behind but don’t keep up!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

What a weird reaction— parents get work for their traveling kids every day. Isn’t this what you want? Parents working with their kids out of school?

Really nothing will satisfy you. Don’t take kids out — even if there is a sub or non important materials. Don't fall behind but don’t keep up!

[Anonymous]

If the parents wanting their kids to not go to school are the same that never complain about anything, then let them skip. Why do I think not the case though…

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

And your pediatrician’s opinion means nothing in an academic context. We get this all the time at school. “My kid’s doctor told me to get them an IEP.” Yeah they can’t just do that and there’s a whole process that determines whether a kid gets one or not that doesn’t factor in your pediatrician’s recommendation. Schools are not medical institutions. If your pediatrician tells the attendance secretary your kid needs to go see your family for 4 weeks for socioemotional health she’s gonna go “ok” and mark those absences unexcused because they are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

What a weird reaction— parents get work for their traveling kids every day. Isn’t this what you want? Parents working with their kids out of school?

Really nothing will satisfy you. Don’t take kids out — even if there is a sub or non important materials. Don't fall behind but don’t keep up!

Your kid actually can’t “keep up” with 4 weeks of packet work. What we can’t send along is all the instruction and activities we do to help them learn the content and master the skills that work should assess. At BEST we can send 4 weeks of busy work which is pointless to ask us to put together and pointless for your kid to do. We can’t send the next 4 weeks of lessons and new content. I’ve mentioned in this thread before the kid who went to India for over a month last year and the dad wanted us to have 1:1 Google meet lessons (this was denied). But we did post all the work for him online, even though in my class no assignments are even done online. Nevertheless I did it. He emailed us saying his son was having trouble understanding the material posted in Schoology. No duh!! He was not here to be taught it!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

And your pediatrician’s opinion means nothing in an academic context. We get this all the time at school. “My kid’s doctor told me to get them an IEP.” Yeah they can’t just do that and there’s a whole process that determines whether a kid gets one or not that doesn’t factor in your pediatrician’s recommendation. Schools are not medical institutions. If your pediatrician tells the attendance secretary your kid needs to go see your family for 4 weeks for socioemotional health she’s gonna go “ok” and mark those absences unexcused because they are.

Sorry you misunderstood. My pediatrician wouldn’t engage the school. I would provide a note from my pediatrician saying “student will return to school on X date”. The attendance secretary has no need for additional medical information.

Again it’s all quite theoretical because I think most teachers would rather support the education of their students, not just their physical presence in the classroom. And posturing aside it takes the same amount of time to put together work for a kid on a plane as a kid with strep. I’m sorry one time one parent had the nerve to ask you for something silly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

What a weird reaction— parents get work for their traveling kids every day. Isn’t this what you want? Parents working with their kids out of school?

Really nothing will satisfy you. Don’t take kids out — even if there is a sub or non important materials. Don't fall behind but don’t keep up!

Your kid actually can’t “keep up” with 4 weeks of packet work. What we can’t send along is all the instruction and activities we do to help them learn the content and master the skills that work should assess. At BEST we can send 4 weeks of busy work which is pointless to ask us to put together and pointless for your kid to do. We can’t send the next 4 weeks of lessons and new content. I’ve mentioned in this thread before the kid who went to India for over a month last year and the dad wanted us to have 1:1 Google meet lessons (this was denied). But we did post all the work for him online, even though in my class no assignments are even done online. Nevertheless I did it. He emailed us saying his son was having trouble understanding the material posted in Schoology. No duh!! He was not here to be taught it!

Wait a second— we just had a retired teacher tel us that busywork was SO IMPORTANT that kids should come to school to receive instruction from her pre-positioned busywork folder instead of spending time with their families.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

And your pediatrician’s opinion means nothing in an academic context. We get this all the time at school. “My kid’s doctor told me to get them an IEP.” Yeah they can’t just do that and there’s a whole process that determines whether a kid gets one or not that doesn’t factor in your pediatrician’s recommendation. Schools are not medical institutions. If your pediatrician tells the attendance secretary your kid needs to go see your family for 4 weeks for socioemotional health she’s gonna go “ok” and mark those absences unexcused because they are.

Sorry you misunderstood. My pediatrician wouldn’t engage the school. I would provide a note from my pediatrician saying “student will return to school on X date”. The attendance secretary has no need for additional medical information.

Again it’s all quite theoretical because I think most teachers would rather support the education of their students, not just their physical presence in the classroom. And posturing aside it takes the same amount of time to put together work for a kid on a plane as a kid with strep. I’m sorry one time one parent had the nerve to ask you for something silly.

It isn’t one time and one family. You are asking the teacher to take on additional burdens so you can go on a vacation. You are so self centered that you would call your doctor and ask them to lie for you, making more work for them and asking them to lie, so that you can go on vacation.

If you are choosing to pull your kid from school then accept that comes with their losing time in class and material. That is on you, don’t pretend that you care so much about school that you are asking others to lie for you and to make extra work for teachers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

And your pediatrician’s opinion means nothing in an academic context. We get this all the time at school. “My kid’s doctor told me to get them an IEP.” Yeah they can’t just do that and there’s a whole process that determines whether a kid gets one or not that doesn’t factor in your pediatrician’s recommendation. Schools are not medical institutions. If your pediatrician tells the attendance secretary your kid needs to go see your family for 4 weeks for socioemotional health she’s gonna go “ok” and mark those absences unexcused because they are.

Sorry you misunderstood. My pediatrician wouldn’t engage the school. I would provide a note from my pediatrician saying “student will return to school on X date”. The attendance secretary has no need for additional medical information.

Again it’s all quite theoretical because I think most teachers would rather support the education of their students, not just their physical presence in the classroom. And posturing aside it takes the same amount of time to put together work for a kid on a plane as a kid with strep. I’m sorry one time one parent had the nerve to ask you for something silly.

It isn’t one time and one family. You are asking the teacher to take on additional burdens so you can go on a vacation. You are so self centered that you would call your doctor and ask them to lie for you, making more work for them and asking them to lie, so that you can go on vacation.

If you are choosing to pull your kid from school then accept that comes with their losing time in class and material. That is on you, don’t pretend that you care so much about school that you are asking others to lie for you and to make extra work for teachers.

Again, I understood teachers were expected to have folders of highly valuable busywork at the ready!

You clearly consider it burdensome. Others of your peers clearly don’t. Personally I don’t expect to take my kid out for four weeks, but I also don’t think the kid whose teacher is upset at providing a packet is less deserving of seeing family than the kid whose teacher thinks travel is itself educational and supports 1000%

I’d add, my Aunt teaches at a prestigious NE private. Part of lesson planning around the holidays includes making materials for those students who will be traveling. It’s seen as fundamentally education-enhancing (particularly by the language department). So bold statements about “teachers burdens” don’t really work here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Maybe this issue with poor sub plans is a bigger issue in elementary school, but as I said, my experience with elementary school is quite limited.

Retired elementary teacher:

Many years ago, when I first began teaching, my principal had a rule:
When you leave in the afternoon, your desk must be clean.
You leave your lesson plan book open on top of the desk with detailed plans.
You leave your materials for the next day also.
You also have a substitute folder prepared with "busy work" just in case it is needed along with suggestions of how to manage the class.

I am not my nature an orderly person, but I continued to do this throughout my teaching career. I was not frequently absent, but it gave me peace of mind if I did call in sick. But, not only was this helpful for substitutes, it was also helpful to me to be prepared for the next day and not run around gathering materials or lining up at the copy machine.

And as a retired teacher, is it your judgment that the contents of this folder were so valuable to children’s learning that their parents should spend thousands of extra dollars and spend less time with their extended families to receive it?

Yes. That folder was "just in case." There were years when I missed NO days. The most I ever missed at a time were five days because of a serious hospitalization with a family member. I had a wonderful sub who praised the plans I left. (I must also admit that the students I taught that year were wonderful.) Most teachers are not absent when your child is away. I would assume that you have made a choice to live away from your extended family. Visit in the summer when school is out.

That folder was "just in case." And, yes, it teaches kids that they need to be in school.

Did you know that your child's absence means that the schools get less money? Funds are dispersed on average daily attendance.

This is an incredibly offensive sentiment and a really good example of what my teachers told
me happens when we “assume”.

While I know you’re not going to teach my child as you are retired, your attitude toward international families would make me more, not less, likely to take my kid out during school. I would want to limit her exposure to ignorant people who make assumptions about her family.

DP. Why is this offensive? Can you not see family AND keep your kids in school?

For medical reasons we cannot see my FIL in the summers, I assure you we didn’t choose his diagnosis.

Families are made up of more than one person. It would be impossible to choose to live in the same country as all of our immediate family, as they are in three countries.

An educator blithely assuming everyone chooses the circumstances of where they live is ignorance of the highest caliber.

Our families story is a happy one,
there are plenty who cannot choose where they’re resettled as refugees, where cancer treatments are available to their children, where their military orders will send them or where their spouses and children can legally live. A teacher who doesn’t know that has no business teaching especially in this area.

You get two weeks off plus weekends. Go during vacation. It sounds like you want our system to adapt to yours. Sorry about the expense, but that is your choice. With three different countries, surely you can visit one of them in the summer.

Happily, I get as many days off as I say I do. The only adaptation needed is for FCPS to come yo realize that the time and money of the parents isn’t at their disposal, and if they want families to make sacrifices they need to make it worth it.

And teachers are saying those days are instructional days when they do teach content.

Then they should be easy for FCPS to solve. Next year, release the data that shows that there were no substitutes in the final week of school. Then the parents will see that the teachers are being asked to make the same financial sacrifices they are.

There always will be subs. Teachers get sick, their kids get sick, and things happen. I guess the gist is, very few teachers in FCPS are taking off a full week to go travel. Very few will be taking the Thursday/Friday off to start their vacation early. Does that mean some are? Yes. But that needs to be approved by the principal. Many principals limit personal leave before a break.

So unless you ask for data of personal leave vs sick leave, you won’t get much info.

And for the kids to do it, it needs to be approved by their parents. There can’t be one set of expectations for teachers attendance vs students, it looks (and is) comically unserious,

I am the PP. I am a teacher. I personally could care less if a parent decides to pull their kid out. But don’t expect me to give them work and/or catch them up. That then falls on the parents. I will continue to teach the kids who are there.

Teachers are adults and it is their job. Just like your job, their manager can approve or disapprove leave. Attendance falls solely on parents. If you want your kid to miss school, no one is stopping you. But don’t get upset if your kid is missing content.

Your job is to catch kids up for excused absences. If that bothers you that’s a problem for you and the principal. I have no problem at all keeping my kid on track so it’s no extra work for you, but if it’s a problem for you generally maybe teaching is the wrong choice? Because I have to say your peers seem happy to provide work in advance, maybe they’re more organized?

PP here. I absolutely will work with the family if the kid has an excused absence. Out sick? Of course I will catch up your kid and send work home. Extending an already 2 week break? I will tell you what they are missing. It is up to you now to catch them up. Big difference.

For extending these breaks a few days there won’t be makeup work, again, subs and movies.

In general midyear breaks are excused as long as they include college visits for HS students and can be for mental health as well for ES kids. Teachers don’t get a say in whether its excused or not. If providing work is a challenge you should talk to your colleagues about their systems for providing it.

“Systems for providing work?” You’re joking, right? My fabulous principal (ES) tells us that we are not to provide work for students whose families are going on a vacation/travel trip and that she will back us up. My colleagues and I do not have time to put together packets and assignments for unexcused absences.

Not all principals have this rule and certainly not all teachers follow it.

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

And your pediatrician’s opinion means nothing in an academic context. We get this all the time at school. “My kid’s doctor told me to get them an IEP.” Yeah they can’t just do that and there’s a whole process that determines whether a kid gets one or not that doesn’t factor in your pediatrician’s recommendation. Schools are not medical institutions. If your pediatrician tells the attendance secretary your kid needs to go see your family for 4 weeks for socioemotional health she’s gonna go “ok” and mark those absences unexcused because they are.

Sorry you misunderstood. My pediatrician wouldn’t engage the school. I would provide a note from my pediatrician saying “student will return to school on X date”. The attendance secretary has no need for additional medical information.

Again it’s all quite theoretical because I think most teachers would rather support the education of their students, not just their physical presence in the classroom. And posturing aside it takes the same amount of time to put together work for a kid on a plane as a kid with strep. I’m sorry one time one parent had the nerve to ask you for something silly.

It isn’t one time and one family. You are asking the teacher to take on additional burdens so you can go on a vacation. You are so self centered that you would call your doctor and ask them to lie for you, making more work for them and asking them to lie, so that you can go on vacation.

If you are choosing to pull your kid from school then accept that comes with their losing time in class and material. That is on you, don’t pretend that you care so much about school that you are asking others to lie for you and to make extra work for teachers.

Also I wouldn’t ask my pediatrician to lie. He thinks travel and time with family is better for kids health. He also has a very dubious view of power-mad administrators. No lying required.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

If I encountered it I would probably discuss our plans with our pediatrician and see whether they thought the kids socioemotional health was best served by being in school or with family.

If your child does not need the instruction and is not missing anything important--then why are you worried about it being excused? Why are you demanding that the teacher provide work if she is not teaching? PP claims her child will be just fine academiclally.

If she’s not teaching there wont be any assignments to provide.

If i was taking a long flight or had significant downtime I’d ask for the material. If i got pushback id seek an excused absence. I wouldn’t follow an arbitrary rule so a teacher felt powerful not doing what others do hsppily.

So, who is the one here claiming to be powerful?

What a weird reaction— parents get work for their traveling kids every day. Isn’t this what you want? Parents working with their kids out of school?

Really nothing will satisfy you. Don’t take kids out — even if there is a sub or non important materials. Don't fall behind but don’t keep up!

Your kid actually can’t “keep up” with 4 weeks of packet work. What we can’t send along is all the instruction and activities we do to help them learn the content and master the skills that work should assess. At BEST we can send 4 weeks of busy work which is pointless to ask us to put together and pointless for your kid to do. We can’t send the next 4 weeks of lessons and new content. I’ve mentioned in this thread before the kid who went to India for over a month last year and the dad wanted us to have 1:1 Google meet lessons (this was denied). But we did post all the work for him online, even though in my class no assignments are even done online. Nevertheless I did it. He emailed us saying his son was having trouble understanding the material posted in Schoology. No duh!! He was not here to be taught it!

Wait a second— we just had a retired teacher tel us that busywork was SO IMPORTANT that kids should come to school to receive instruction from her pre-positioned busywork folder instead of spending time with their families.

LOL! I'm the retired teacher whose words you have conveniently twisted. You skipped the part about the detailed plans and the materials for the lessons that were left on my desk. The folder of "busy work" was "just in case."

But, the part I really don't understand is the parent who thinks that lessons go in "lock step." This assumes that every lesson is a complete success and that all of the students clearly "get" it. Gee, sometimes a lesson needs repetition and more practice--and sometimes, the kids get it so quickly that you can skip along to the next one.

But, PP has decided that the teacher is supposed to anticipate exactly what her child needs.

And, as preparing the lesson for the kids with "strep." If she cannot see the difference here, then she cannot be helped. And, kids are seldom out sick for weeks--and, believe me, most teachers would lovingly do as much as possible to help that kid. But, traveling mom thinks this is the same thing. And, FWIW, a sick child definitely suffers and a really sick child is going to need lots of extra help on return--because they likely have not been able to keep up because he does not feel well.

As for the doctor--sounds like a quack if he is giving excuses for travel.