It’s frustrating high school sports don’t matter for admissions when they are so hard to join here

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So, if we are in agreement that being on a HS sports team is a big time commitment and that sport fosters certain skills, then shouldn’t non recruited athletes get the same leg up that recruited athletes get?

What an odd statement. There’s a reason non-recruited athletes weren’t recruited. That’s why they don’t get a leg up.

But they learned about hard work, time management and team work. And became oh so very special.

You don’t need to be recruited for those talents to be recognized. Being a captain on a high level team will get you a 2 at Harvard which is what you need in the rubric. You’ll get a 1 if your recruited but that two is all you need to fill that EC check.

The point is that it is extremely hard to be a captain of a high level team. Most people can’t pass tryouts for JV

Not everyone gets a trophy. Why is this so hard to understand? People peacock here about high ACT & SAT scores. They constantly bleat about T20 & HYPSM. Everyone’s kid is going IB and making mid-6 figures. When it comes to sports, all of a sudden, everyone needs a pacifier. I guess the DCUM gene pool is Low T.

Getting straight As in AP courses is much easier than making the JV sports team. It’s messed up for sports teams to be so hard to join when they are supposed to be something kids do for fun on the side

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The stock answer of someone who doesn’t have the receipts. Go do the work to support the assertion I pulled out of my butt

Not the OP but sick of your whining nonetheless.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09585192.2023.2267426#abstract

https://www.library.hbs.edu/working-knowledge/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/02/17/athletes-are-more-likely-be-find-employment-be-engaged-work-study-suggests#:~:text=College%20athletes%20are%20just%20as%20likely%20as,ongoing%20Gallup%2DPurdue%20University%20study%20of%20college%20graduates.

https://epichire.com/blog/7-reasons-why-student-athletes-make-great-hires

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:So, if we are in agreement that being on a HS sports team is a big time commitment and that sport fosters certain skills, then shouldn’t non recruited athletes get the same leg up that recruited athletes get?

What an odd statement. There’s a reason non-recruited athletes weren’t recruited. That’s why they don’t get a leg up.

But they learned about hard work, time management and team work. And became oh so very special.

You don’t need to be recruited for those talents to be recognized. Being a captain on a high level team will get you a 2 at Harvard which is what you need in the rubric. You’ll get a 1 if your recruited but that two is all you need to fill that EC check.

The point is that it is extremely hard to be a captain of a high level team. Most people can’t pass tryouts for JV

Not everyone gets a trophy. Why is this so hard to understand? People peacock here about high ACT & SAT scores. They constantly bleat about T20 & HYPSM. Everyone’s kid is going IB and making mid-6 figures. When it comes to sports, all of a sudden, everyone needs a pacifier. I guess the DCUM gene pool is Low T.

Getting straight As in AP courses is much easier than making the JV sports team. It’s messed up for sports teams to be so hard to join when they are supposed to be something kids do for fun on the side

You’ve answered your own question.

For whatever reason your child is driven to get A’s in AP classes. Good for them.

For whatever reason many athletes are driven to excel in athletics. They may find it fun, but that’s a byproduct.

Thank you for attending my TED Talk.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s interesting that many of you don’t let your kids play on the HS sports team. My kid would say that was the most fun part of playing their sport once they hit HS. They got to play with their closest friends (not usually on the same teams for travel), for their school where classmates could come cheer them on, working towards a collective goals as representatives of their community. And from playing club soccer they knew a few players on almost every opposing team. It’s a much more fun atmosphere and the season is like 3 months max.

I wish our child played for their high school. It would have made my life so much easier. Our child wanted to compete against the best players and teams. That ruled high school out completely.

My son and many of his HS teammates also played ECNL. Some are now playing in college. He still had way more fun playing for his HS. I know MLSnext doesn’t allow it but ECNL does. I hope your son finds great success off the field! Mine decided that since he wasn’t destined for the pros he’d go to the best school he could and play club in college and he’s having a blast.

Our son started in USSDA which eventually became MLSNext. His high school was a perennial championship contender but they would have lost to his club team 10-0. He was recruited to D1 and has since graduated.

And is he a professional soccer player?

He could have been, but not at a level that made financial sense. He realized it was time to start his career. He had a good run.

Sorry to question you, ma’am. Consider this your gold star and your certificate of validation (which clearly you desperately desire).

That’s the difference between us. There are no college stickers in the back window of my BMW. There weren’t any college athletic sweatshirts in my wardrobe. I never talked about it at gatherings unless directly asked, and even then I downplayed it. The reason I posted it here was to answer a direct question. Several of his teammates over the years went the “pro” route for $65,000-$75,000.

The only question asked of you was whether your kid was pro. Everything else you volunteered on your own and you seemed pretty desperate to do so. Perhaps you should have talked about it with people who actually know you so you didn’t feel the need to post on an anonymous forum.

That was not an honest question. It was meant to delegitimize our son’s sacrifice and effort to pursue his goals. It’s fine. It’s the standard defense mechanism for posters on college forums. Whatever gets you through the day.

LOL lady your entire “contribution” to this thread was “not honest” by your own metric. You posted on a thread in which folks are commiserating that it’s difficult for their kids to make a high school sports team with “oh darling I WISH little Larlo hadn’t been far too TALENTED to be allowed to consider such a pedestrian route as high school sports” (I paraphrase).

Nobody is jealous of you. And far from being jealous of your kid, I legitimately feel sorry for him. You’re the absolute worst kind of sports parent, and I can only imagine what a nightmare it must be to live with you.

Why would you be jealous of someone else’s children? Is that normal for you?

The thread is about sports and college admissions. Sports played a role in my son’s admission.

I apologize if pointing out high school sports aren’t the top level in many cases touched a nerve.

It’s *literally* about high school sports. There is not a person alive who thinks high school sports are the ToP LeVeL, so your alleged attempt to illuminate that point to the masses was disingenuous at best. But let’s be honest: we can all identity a smug braggart when we see one.

I suspect that you spent too long living vicariously through your son, and now that he has gone you simply don’t have a life.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The stock answer of someone who doesn’t have the receipts. Go do the work to support the assertion I pulled out of my butt

Not the OP but sick of your whining nonetheless.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09585192.2023.2267426#abstract

https://www.library.hbs.edu/working-knowledge/being-a-team-player-why-college-athletes-succeed-in-business

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2016/02/17/athletes-are-more-likely-be-find-employment-be-engaged-work-study-suggests#:~:text=College%20athletes%20are%20just%20as%20likely%20as,ongoing%20Gallup%2DPurdue%20University%20study%20of%20college%20graduates.

https://epichire.com/blog/7-reasons-why-student-athletes-make-great-hires

None of these say what you or the PP claim they say. If anything they simply suggest athletes look for other athletes in recruiting. Which isn’t the nearly the same thing as they have differentiated skills.

And if think the last “cite” is academic research you should stop injecting ivermectin to cure cancer

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:I think it’s interesting that many of you don’t let your kids play on the HS sports team. My kid would say that was the most fun part of playing their sport once they hit HS. They got to play with their closest friends (not usually on the same teams for travel), for their school where classmates could come cheer them on, working towards a collective goals as representatives of their community. And from playing club soccer they knew a few players on almost every opposing team. It’s a much more fun atmosphere and the season is like 3 months max.

I wish our child played for their high school. It would have made my life so much easier. Our child wanted to compete against the best players and teams. That ruled high school out completely.

You and your kid weren’t clever enough to realize that you can play for your high school AND whatever elite team they simply had to be on?

He was contractually precluded from playing high school soccer.

This is such a huge problem. Most of the players who go this “academy” route are not going to end up in any kind of lucrative pro arrangement. And you give up the HS experience. Shame on a structure that sets up contracts this way.

I know it’s hard to believe, but some athletes don’t care about a HS sports experience. They don’t see bypassing HS sports as giving up an experience.

As with everything else, a lot of truths. I know four kids, friends of my son, who bypassed HS for a club/ academy model. One became a pro player. The other three went to Division III colleges. Those three all now, at about age 25, regret not playing with their HS friends and say they would do it differently if they could do it over.

I have an actual son that bypassed HS sports and couldn’t be happier. He jokes that he finds all the old HS players hanging out together at one of the local bars when he comes home. They live in the past. It’s sad.

Only a loser thinks it’s sad to have friends. Sorry you raised one.

Bruce Springsteen wrote a classic song snout it: Glory Days.

You don’t want to peak in high school. lol

I always think of that song when I see people that have to relive their HS glory because that was their peak in life- the homecoming queen, the star HS athlete that didn’t make it to college play.

My kids did both - straight As, 5s all AP exams, club and HS sports—but they were over the dudes that couldn’t get over the HS sport glory. It’s sad. It’s because they didn’t have anything else going on and when it went away they were 1 in a million former average intelligence jocks.

[Anonymous]

I’m sure the pro player is really sad about missing high school sports …ha. The fiction on these threads is unreal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:It’s *literally* about high school sports. There is not a person alive who thinks high school sports are the ToP LeVeL, so your alleged attempt to illuminate that point to the masses was disingenuous at best. But let’s be honest: we can all identity a smug braggart when we see one.

I suspect that you spent too long living vicariously through your son, and now that he has gone you simply don’t have a life.

I can’t tell if it’s a reading comprehension thing, or if you’re just so desperate to justify some decision in your life, but you aren’t thinking clearly so I’ll drop a quote from the OP.

Anonymous wrote:Even if your kid is lucky enough to make varsity, it doesn’t matter much for admissions. It’s just crazy when it’s so hard to make the high school team

This whole discussion started with a poster frustrated about the fact that the difficulty of making a high school team is under appreciated by college admissions officers.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of athletes, particularly excluding top level basketball and football, are generally relatively close to the rest of the student body. It is the high profile stories that get the most press.

And I would argue that the skills learned playing a competitive sport will serve many people better in life than most of the other characteristics prioritized by all of the ignorant people who love to hate on sports. Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.

I would rather hire an athlete with slightly lower academic qualifications but strong EQ for most jobs than some kid with 18 APs who has never watched TV or been to a sporting event, doesn't have a firm handshake and can't make small talk. I'm sure I will be slammed for this but I don't care.

You forgot domestic violence, rape, animal abuse, drug abuse, and gambling.

There are plenty of non-athletes who do the same thing. Generalizing like that shows how ignorant you are. The stereotype of the person who goes on a shooting rampage is a non-athletic person with no friends.

Sure there are plenty of non-athletes who do the same. But by the same token, there are plenty of non-athletes who have learned “Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.” Athletes don’t have any sort of lock or edge on these qualities. So your argument is moot. And you mooted it.

Of course people learn those skills in non-athletic settings. But, it is often commented that athletes do have an edge in those areas compared to the general population. There is a significant body of academic research which backs this up as well.

What “general population?” Do you think a violinist in an orchestra doesn’t know determination? Do you think someone who works on a play doesn’t know teamwork? A debater doesn’t know failure? There’s nothing special about sports, except in the minds of people who have elevated them to a religion.

I’m sensing quite a bit of insecurity especially since I never said people couldn’t learn those skills in other pursuits. I merely pointed out that the levels of success for athletes has been well studied and documented.

Again, what “general population?” You seem to be positing athletes against everyone else, and that’s stupid. Perhaps they have an edge in these qualities over kids who do no extracurriculars whatever, but all of the attributes you confer upon athletes are just as well found in kids who pursue other activities. You’ve set up a false premise of “gen pop” vs athlete.

[Anonymous]

I thought the time commitment I took on as a 3-season HS athlete was a lot til I had a kid who did debate.

Same for kids who do both the fall play and spring musical. (those kids get home after 10pm during rehearsal weeks).

I think it all matters in college admissions. Sure, you'd need to be a star athlete/debater/star for sub 5% admissions schools, but for most colleges, they like to see it and get the time spent on these activities. Same as kids who work every day at mom and dad's restaurant.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of athletes, particularly excluding top level basketball and football, are generally relatively close to the rest of the student body. It is the high profile stories that get the most press.

And I would argue that the skills learned playing a competitive sport will serve many people better in life than most of the other characteristics prioritized by all of the ignorant people who love to hate on sports. Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.

I would rather hire an athlete with slightly lower academic qualifications but strong EQ for most jobs than some kid with 18 APs who has never watched TV or been to a sporting event, doesn't have a firm handshake and can't make small talk. I'm sure I will be slammed for this but I don't care.

You forgot domestic violence, rape, animal abuse, drug abuse, and gambling.

There are plenty of non-athletes who do the same thing. Generalizing like that shows how ignorant you are. The stereotype of the person who goes on a shooting rampage is a non-athletic person with no friends.

Sure there are plenty of non-athletes who do the same. But by the same token, there are plenty of non-athletes who have learned “Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.” Athletes don’t have any sort of lock or edge on these qualities. So your argument is moot. And you mooted it.

Of course people learn those skills in non-athletic settings. But, it is often commented that athletes do have an edge in those areas compared to the general population. There is a significant body of academic research which backs this up as well.

What “general population?” Do you think a violinist in an orchestra doesn’t know determination? Do you think someone who works on a play doesn’t know teamwork? A debater doesn’t know failure? There’s nothing special about sports, except in the minds of people who have elevated them to a religion.

I’m sensing quite a bit of insecurity especially since I never said people couldn’t learn those skills in other pursuits. I merely pointed out that the levels of success for athletes has been well studied and documented.

Again, what “general population?” You seem to be positing athletes against everyone else, and that’s stupid. Perhaps they have an edge in these qualities over kids who do no extracurriculars whatever, but all of the attributes you confer upon athletes are just as well found in kids who pursue other activities. You’ve set up a false premise of “gen pop” vs athlete.

You know who else has a high level of success? Rich kids - do you think they have some behavioral advantage over others?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure the pro player is really sad about missing high school sports …ha. The fiction on these threads is unreal.

Except for soccer and tennis…no American pro players missed HS sports. The international pro hockey, baseball and basketball players don’t have any HS sports, so there wasn’t anything to miss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We’re the only country where sports is a big part of the “college experience” and can be tied to college admission for some. Other countries manage to produce top athletes without making it part of the kids’ high school or college experience. I’m not saying that America should be the same way. However it is concerning when families dedicate so much expenses and time away from family life, rest, work to put their kids in youth sports, with the hope they’ll at least make the high school team.

Other countries identify their top athletes early (as young as 5) and start training those kids separate from the general populace at sports academies where they go to live and train.

Sometimes those 5 year olds become Messi (sent to Spain at 5), while others are kicked out at 7 for better players…who may get kicked out at 10 for better players…by 13 they basically have their players.

Many kick around in soccer, basketball, hockey, baseball minor leagues and never really make it…and are nearly functionally illiterate at 23 or so when they turn around and try to become coaches in the same system.

Maybe this is better…if you aren’t at one of these academies you just play Rec…or maybe not.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m sure the pro player is really sad about missing high school sports …ha. The fiction on these threads is unreal.

Except for soccer and tennis…no American pro players missed HS sports. The international pro hockey, baseball and basketball players don’t have any HS sports, so there wasn’t anything to miss.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that many excellent athletes don’t care that they didn’t compete for their high school? The bigger problem are the guys that can’t outgrow their high school glory.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:The vast majority of athletes, particularly excluding top level basketball and football, are generally relatively close to the rest of the student body. It is the high profile stories that get the most press.

And I would argue that the skills learned playing a competitive sport will serve many people better in life than most of the other characteristics prioritized by all of the ignorant people who love to hate on sports. Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.

I would rather hire an athlete with slightly lower academic qualifications but strong EQ for most jobs than some kid with 18 APs who has never watched TV or been to a sporting event, doesn't have a firm handshake and can't make small talk. I'm sure I will be slammed for this but I don't care.

You forgot domestic violence, rape, animal abuse, drug abuse, and gambling.

There are plenty of non-athletes who do the same thing. Generalizing like that shows how ignorant you are. The stereotype of the person who goes on a shooting rampage is a non-athletic person with no friends.

Sure there are plenty of non-athletes who do the same. But by the same token, there are plenty of non-athletes who have learned “Teamwork. People skills. Determination. Dealing with failure. Sense of humor.” Athletes don’t have any sort of lock or edge on these qualities. So your argument is moot. And you mooted it.

Of course people learn those skills in non-athletic settings. But, it is often commented that athletes do have an edge in those areas compared to the general population. There is a significant body of academic research which backs this up as well.

What “general population?” Do you think a violinist in an orchestra doesn’t know determination? Do you think someone who works on a play doesn’t know teamwork? A debater doesn’t know failure? There’s nothing special about sports, except in the minds of people who have elevated them to a religion.

I’m sensing quite a bit of insecurity especially since I never said people couldn’t learn those skills in other pursuits. I merely pointed out that the levels of success for athletes has been well studied and documented.

Again, what “general population?” You seem to be positing athletes against everyone else, and that’s stupid. Perhaps they have an edge in these qualities over kids who do no extracurriculars whatever, but all of the attributes you confer upon athletes are just as well found in kids who pursue other activities. You’ve set up a false premise of “gen pop” vs athlete.

You know who else has a high level of success? Rich kids - do you think they have some behavioral advantage over others?

What does this have to do with the discussion at hand?