A Sincere Question about Secular Christmas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

Give what up? Not wanting your Christian-rooted holidays shoved down my throat?

We don't live in a Christian country. Stop pretending like we do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure who your target audience is. I've literally never met anyone like this, with the "insisting".

+1 who in your life is insisting you do anything? Your spouse or family?

That’s a boundary issue, not a religious or holiday issue. You can enforce your boundaries without guilt.

"insisting"

Public schools insisted I color christmas trees and sing silent night when I was not a christian. In many places they still do this shit.

You had to color a Christmas tree in grade school and sing a Christmas song in music class and it still makes you angry?

Have you thought about hiring an attorney and seeking compensation for your damaged mental health from being forced to do these terrible things against your will? You were discriminated against by the state government. It’s possible you could also sue your classroom teacher, the music teacher, and the school district.

It’s inappropriate in a public school. Christmas is a Christian holiday. Not everyone is Christian or Christian by background or birth. Shocker.

+1

I'm glad our kids' school is low key about the whole holiday season.

+1 My kids' school teaches songs about snow and does arts and crafts of snowflakes and snowmen. Nobody is missing out on the "Christmas spirit" of the season just because they're not coloring a picture of Santa at school. They're more than making up for it at home and everywhere else with Christmas carols in all the stores and decorations/trees in all the town squares.

Different people celebrate different holidays. Public schools need to figure out how to handle it. Personally, I think teaching about different holidays is a learning opportunity.

Teaching about different holidays is different than celebrating them. I think my kid's elementary school actually does a good job of teaching without celebrating. They read books about different holidays during story time and do comparative learning units about different holiday traditions. But they don't decorate their classroom with Christmas trees or have a class elf.

Outside of classes about religion, there is no place in public schools for teaching kids about Christmas or other religious holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

You don't think we should be respectful to all religions? WTAF?

Stop trying to shove your ChRisTiaN holidays down other people's throats. Not everyone wants that commercialized crap based on anachronistic fables.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

You don't think we should be respectful to all religions? WTAF?

Stop trying to shove your ChRisTiaN holidays down other people's throats. Not everyone wants that commercialized crap based on anachronistic fables.

Poster didn't say we should not be respectful to all religions. Poster said, "and their holidays". Context is whether public schools should engage with every religion and every religious observance.

Nice try to twist their words, but its clearly there in black and white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

You don't think we should be respectful to all religions? WTAF?

Stop trying to shove your ChRisTiaN holidays down other people's throats. Not everyone wants that commercialized crap based on anachronistic fables.

Poster didn't say we should not be respectful to all religions. Poster said, "and their holidays". Context is whether public schools should engage with every religion and every religious observance.

Nice try to twist their words, but its clearly there in black and white.

PP said EXACTLY that. If the PP was just talking about holidays they could have just said "be respectful of all various holidays", but they very clearly said "religions and their holidays".

"the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous"

You can't gaslight this one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

How about...just don't shove your religious holidays down everyone's throats? We don't need to celebrate ANY religious holidays at school.

It's not that deep.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

I expect a country that prides itself on being a nation of immigrants and a multicultural melting pot to try to live up to that, even when we fail to do so. I expect that when people of minority religions tell you we don't see Christmas as a secular "American" holiday, you could have enough respect for the religious diversity of our great country to just let it go, instead of telling us we're wrong or trying to patronizingly explain how Christmas is "embedded" in American culture, so we should just get "in the spirit."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

I expect a country that prides itself on being a nation of immigrants and a multicultural melting pot to try to live up to that, even when we fail to do so. I expect that when people of minority religions tell you we don't see Christmas as a secular "American" holiday, you could have enough respect for the religious diversity of our great country to just let it go, instead of telling us we're wrong or trying to patronizingly explain how Christmas is "embedded" in American culture, so we should just get "in the spirit."

I haven't heard anyone on this forum say that you're wrong to be of a religion other than Christianity. Meanwhile, people tell me I'm wrong all the time because I'm an atheist. So What. I think they're wrong. I think that you should "just let it go", too. Please.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

I expect a country that prides itself on being a nation of immigrants and a multicultural melting pot to try to live up to that, even when we fail to do so. I expect that when people of minority religions tell you we don't see Christmas as a secular "American" holiday, you could have enough respect for the religious diversity of our great country to just let it go, instead of telling us we're wrong or trying to patronizingly explain how Christmas is "embedded" in American culture, so we should just get "in the spirit."

I haven't heard anyone on this forum say that you're wrong to be of a religion other than Christianity. Meanwhile, people tell me I'm wrong all the time because I'm an atheist. So What. I think they're wrong. I think that you should "just let it go", too. Please.

Not that we're the wrong religion. That we're wrong about Christmas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

You don't think we should be respectful to all religions? WTAF?

Stop trying to shove your ChRisTiaN holidays down other people's throats. Not everyone wants that commercialized crap based on anachronistic fables.

Poster didn't say we should not be respectful to all religions. Poster said, "and their holidays". Context is whether public schools should engage with every religion and every religious observance.

Nice try to twist their words, but its clearly there in black and white.

PP said EXACTLY that. If the PP was just talking about holidays they could have just said "be respectful of all various holidays", but they very clearly said "religions and their holidays".

"the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous"

You can't gaslight this one.

Learn how a conjuctive works.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

+1. As an atheist, I don't care that Christmas and Easter (albeit they were appropriated from older pagan traditions) have Christian roots.

Separately, the idea that we should teach or be respectful of all religions and their holidays is ridiculous. If we gave all religions equal consideration, there would be no time to learn.

The fact of the matter is that this country was created by people who were Christian which are embedded in our culture. Go with it and enjoy the spirit of sharing and of rebirth.

What were you before you were atheist? I'll bet your family was Christian. IME, only cultural Christians argue that minorities shouldn't seek basic understanding and respect from the majority.

It would be impossible to give equal understanding and respect to every religion. Estimates indicate there are 4-10k religions in the world. You expect a country that is historically culturally Christian to accommodate and "respect" all of those? Are we supposed to have a day off for every religious holiday? How is your minority not being "respected"?

I expect a country that prides itself on being a nation of immigrants and a multicultural melting pot to try to live up to that, even when we fail to do so. I expect that when people of minority religions tell you we don't see Christmas as a secular "American" holiday, you could have enough respect for the religious diversity of our great country to just let it go, instead of telling us we're wrong or trying to patronizingly explain how Christmas is "embedded" in American culture, so we should just get "in the spirit."

Christmas is embedded in American culture. Your very premise is flawed.

It is like arguing that if I lived in Saudi Arabia or Israel they should not celebrate their normal holidays.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Spin-off from a deleted part of another thread where it was off-topic...

I completely understand the appeal of secular Christmas for cultural Christians (for lack of a better phrase). It's fun and the decorations are pretty and there is a lot of family tradition that can still be passed down without all the religious components for those who have left Christianity. Truly, I'm happy for everyone who finds meaning in this iteration of Christmas.

What I don't understand is the insistence that the rest of us should celebrate it too. I understand that it's secular for you. I understand that you don't understand why the rest of us still call it a Christian holiday when you've divorced so much of the religion from it. But still, why do you insist that we all understand it the way you do and push and push people to celebrate secular Christmas (and I don't mean inviting us to your Christmas party, but really pushing us to teach our kids about Santa and decorate our own houses, because it will be fun and, really, it's not about Jesus)? I don't care that it's fun or that it's not about Jesus; it's just not my holiday, and I have plenty of my own holidays. You can just have Christmas to yourself. I'll wish you a Merry Christmas on December 25 and everything.

No one cares what you do. Everyone makes their own choices for their family.

Not really -- lots of times people come on here specifically looking for advice on how to handle a situation.

There are people who are baffled that I don't celebrate Christmas, even after I tell them I'm Jewish. Like they don't see the incompatibility of the two things. And then they'll try to go on to convince me that I can celebrate it in a secular way, like it's some great loss for me and my family that we don't do Christmas, like we've just been looking for a way to do it and this person is going to make it ok.

A lot of Jews do celebrate Christmas in their own way. It's cultural - not religious - for many Cristians too. I suggest that you ease up about it.

WTF? Stop shoving your crap down other people's throats.

Christmas should go away - it's over-commercialized and played out.

Could be that pp doesn't see it as crap. As they said, it's cultural and not religious for many Christians too. To me, it's getting back to its pagan roots -- all about celebrating in the darkest days of winter.

That is the issue. People making assumptions about what other people want to experience.

Just because you enjoy something doesn't mean it should be forced on everyone else.

I strongly suggest that you give it up. Celebrate whatever holidays you want to and realize that you're living in a country with majority Christian roots, which often celebrates holidays without religious overtones.

Give what up? Not wanting your Christian-rooted holidays shoved down my throat?

We don't live in a Christian country. Stop pretending like we do.

Give up thinking that Christian-rooted holidays are being "shoved down your throat". They're not. The supposed date of Christ's birth was set around a holiday that non- and pre-christian people were celebrating anyhow - the winter solstice.

You can always ignore anyone who tries to influence you in ANY way, religious or not.

I personally like Christmas (I'm not religious) - the cookies, the music of the masters, the decorations - and also understand that some people, including some Christians - do not like it. They don't like the pressure to buy gifts, to eat, to drink, etc.

No one's trying to shove it down your throat, as in force you to believe in Jesus. Please try easing up a bit. There are more serious things to grouse about.