Unpopular opinion: DCPS teachers are super well paid!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

This thread dis not about teachers "anywhere." It's about teachers in DCPS, who make more than teachers elsewhere. It's very frustrating that teachers from other jurisdictions keep coming into the thread and getting mad and saying "but I am not well paid!" Yes, well, we aren't talking about you. As a profession, teachers absolutely ARE underpaid. Teachers in red states often make what are essentially poverty wages because of underinvestment in education. It's a real problem.

But teachers in DCPS are among the highest paid in the country. And yes, some of that pay is due to bonuses for being "highly effective" and that's not guaranteed, but some teachers absolutely avail themselves of it and yes there are teachers who meet the requirement.

ECE teachers in DCPS are particularly well paid. If you have a master degree in early childhood education, you can make over 100k within 10 years of teaching. That's amazing. Go talk to preschool and kindergarten teachers in other areas and ask how that sounds to them. DCPS has invested heavily in its ECE programs and that shows up in an incredibly strong ECE offering throughout the system, even at schools that really struggle with the upper grades, and some phenomenally good ECE instruction. This is not a criticism, it's actually evidence of what can happen if you are willing to financially reward top performers.

Anyway, this thread is not about the average teaching salary. It's not even about the average teaching salary in DCPS, because averaging everyone's salaries across the whole system would be incredibly misleading, given how much pay can vary depending on credentials, impact, and tenure. The thread is about the fact (and it is a fact) that DCPS actually pays teachers pretty well. That doesn't mean teaching in DCPS is easy, that the district is well run, or even that DCPS teachers don't deserve more in an absolute sense based on the vital service they perform.

Let me tell you that ECE teachers making 100K is the BARE minimum they deserve for the jobs they do. Yes, they are making significantly more than other ECE teachers in other places. That fact just says how little we value caretakers and women who work with children. Working in ECE takes as much or more talent, work and knowledge as it does to teach Calculus. I guarantee that if you took pretty much any CEO with some "big job", they'd run away crying from how hard teaching ECE is. Imo, ECE teachers should start at 100K everywhere. It should be the federally mandated pay across the country. Same with those who teach special ed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

This thread dis not about teachers "anywhere." It's about teachers in DCPS, who make more than teachers elsewhere. It's very frustrating that teachers from other jurisdictions keep coming into the thread and getting mad and saying "but I am not well paid!" Yes, well, we aren't talking about you. As a profession, teachers absolutely ARE underpaid. Teachers in red states often make what are essentially poverty wages because of underinvestment in education. It's a real problem.

But teachers in DCPS are among the highest paid in the country. And yes, some of that pay is due to bonuses for being "highly effective" and that's not guaranteed, but some teachers absolutely avail themselves of it and yes there are teachers who meet the requirement.

ECE teachers in DCPS are particularly well paid. If you have a master degree in early childhood education, you can make over 100k within 10 years of teaching. That's amazing. Go talk to preschool and kindergarten teachers in other areas and ask how that sounds to them. DCPS has invested heavily in its ECE programs and that shows up in an incredibly strong ECE offering throughout the system, even at schools that really struggle with the upper grades, and some phenomenally good ECE instruction. This is not a criticism, it's actually evidence of what can happen if you are willing to financially reward top performers.

Anyway, this thread is not about the average teaching salary. It's not even about the average teaching salary in DCPS, because averaging everyone's salaries across the whole system would be incredibly misleading, given how much pay can vary depending on credentials, impact, and tenure. The thread is about the fact (and it is a fact) that DCPS actually pays teachers pretty well. That doesn't mean teaching in DCPS is easy, that the district is well run, or even that DCPS teachers don't deserve more in an absolute sense based on the vital service they perform.

Let me tell you that ECE teachers making 100K is the BARE minimum they deserve for the jobs they do. Yes, they are making significantly more than other ECE teachers in other places. That fact just says how little we value caretakers and women who work with children. Working in ECE takes as much or more talent, work and knowledge as it does to teach Calculus. I guarantee that if you took pretty much any CEO with some "big job", they'd run away crying from how hard teaching ECE is. Imo, ECE teachers should start at 100K everywhere. It should be the federally mandated pay across the country. Same with those who teach special ed.

Amen. I'm married to someone teaching ECE special ed. There's no way the rest of you want to get bit, scratched and thrown up on at work while being expected to teach a child to identify letters and numbers. And being supervised by someone who has never done any of the above.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Just realizing that was the old starting point. Still! Now they're approaching a livable wage. Thank god.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

This thread dis not about teachers "anywhere." It's about teachers in DCPS, who make more than teachers elsewhere. It's very frustrating that teachers from other jurisdictions keep coming into the thread and getting mad and saying "but I am not well paid!" Yes, well, we aren't talking about you. As a profession, teachers absolutely ARE underpaid. Teachers in red states often make what are essentially poverty wages because of underinvestment in education. It's a real problem.

But teachers in DCPS are among the highest paid in the country. And yes, some of that pay is due to bonuses for being "highly effective" and that's not guaranteed, but some teachers absolutely avail themselves of it and yes there are teachers who meet the requirement.

ECE teachers in DCPS are particularly well paid. If you have a master degree in early childhood education, you can make over 100k within 10 years of teaching. That's amazing. Go talk to preschool and kindergarten teachers in other areas and ask how that sounds to them. DCPS has invested heavily in its ECE programs and that shows up in an incredibly strong ECE offering throughout the system, even at schools that really struggle with the upper grades, and some phenomenally good ECE instruction. This is not a criticism, it's actually evidence of what can happen if you are willing to financially reward top performers.

Anyway, this thread is not about the average teaching salary. It's not even about the average teaching salary in DCPS, because averaging everyone's salaries across the whole system would be incredibly misleading, given how much pay can vary depending on credentials, impact, and tenure. The thread is about the fact (and it is a fact) that DCPS actually pays teachers pretty well. That doesn't mean teaching in DCPS is easy, that the district is well run, or even that DCPS teachers don't deserve more in an absolute sense based on the vital service they perform.

Let me tell you that ECE teachers making 100K is the BARE minimum they deserve for the jobs they do. Yes, they are making significantly more than other ECE teachers in other places. That fact just says how little we value caretakers and women who work with children. Working in ECE takes as much or more talent, work and knowledge as it does to teach Calculus. I guarantee that if you took pretty much any CEO with some "big job", they'd run away crying from how hard teaching ECE is. Imo, ECE teachers should start at 100K everywhere. It should be the federally mandated pay across the country. Same with those who teach special ed.

For an experienced, effective ECE teacher? Yes, I agree. For someone fresh out of school with little practical experience -- no. I don't think ECE teacher salaries should start at 100k.

I appreciate that DCPS puts so much emphasis on the masters credential for ECE teachers, because this is one situation where I think the masters degree is genuinely meaningful. ECE is a broadly misunderstood and underestimated area, and that degree ensures that teachers in the system understand brain development for 3-6 year olds, which is essential for doing that job well and effectively.

I know a teacher currently working as an aide in an ECE classroom in DCPS. She complains mightily about making an aide salary (which are quite low) because she does not have her masters credential. But I've been with her in the classroom and what she does involves a lot of misguided methods because she doesn't understand the kids she's teaching. She uses disciplinary methods intended for middle school children, and doesn't know how to respond to emotional immaturity (which is common in ECE classrooms, for what should be obvious reasons). She's not an effective teacher even though she's currently teamed with a veteran teacher who IS effective and does have the experience and credentials to do the job.

In a field like teaching where the barriers to entry are very low, it should not be surprising that many teachers start out at 60k. That's a low salary generally but it is NOT that low for a first job out of college. Yes, even in the DMV. And yes, a lot of people with that salary are going to live with roommates or at home with parents (guess what, I lived with roommates until I got married because DC is expensive). But if you stick it out and learn how to actually do your job well, and if you get additional training that will make you more effective, you can make more.

I'm sorry but, it just doesn't seem fundamentally unfair in the way many of you are saying. If we were talking about teachers in places like Alabama who are severely underpaid and where education is hanging on by a thread in some places, I'd fully agree with you. But I just do not think teachers in DC are underpaid. It's an industry with a lower salary ceiling but it has some great benefits (including a pension that can eventually be worth millions). I think it's a pretty good deal. I'd encourage my own kid to become a teacher in DCPS if she was so inclined -- I could see her being interested in teaching ECE, actually, and this would be a great place to do that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Once again, this is not unique. I'm a fed and our agency hires new grads with masters at GS-7 or GS-9, so in the same range. OH, and only 3 weeks vacation total for each of the first three years (no summer, winter, and spring break)!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Once again, this is not unique. I'm a fed and our agency hires new grads with masters at GS-7 or GS-9, so in the same range. OH, and only 3 weeks vacation total for each of the first three years (no summer, winter, and spring break)!

+1, a lot of government jobs offer recent college grads somewhere in this range.

[Anonymous]

I think part of what we're dealing with here is teachers saying on the one hand, (1) "you couldn't pay me enough to do this job" because it's very taxing and in urban education for the poor there are just so few wins and an overall culture of failure, and on the other hand, (2) college-educated professionals who want to make, "I worked hard in college I am entitled to UMC status" money regardless of the market, kind of an education/class-based entitlement, but partly because (3) public education is a government-driven market so labor prices are not so clearly set by private market forces.

That's my off the cuff take late in the threads here, I know.

[Anonymous]

I heard about this thread (and this website) in the teachers’ lounge over lunch. And wow. Just wow.

But DCPS is hiring! Join us, since we’re super well-paid and all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think part of what we're dealing with here is teachers saying on the one hand, (1) "you couldn't pay me enough to do this job" because it's very taxing and in urban education for the poor there are just so few wins and an overall culture of failure, and on the other hand, (2) college-educated professionals who want to make, "I worked hard in college I am entitled to UMC status" money regardless of the market, kind of an education/class-based entitlement, but partly because (3) public education is a government-driven market so labor prices are not so clearly set by private market forces.

That's my off the cuff take late in the threads here, I know.

There is a private market and private school teachers make a lot less. So DCPS teachers are really well off compared to them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

This thread dis not about teachers "anywhere." It's about teachers in DCPS, who make more than teachers elsewhere. It's very frustrating that teachers from other jurisdictions keep coming into the thread and getting mad and saying "but I am not well paid!" Yes, well, we aren't talking about you. As a profession, teachers absolutely ARE underpaid. Teachers in red states often make what are essentially poverty wages because of underinvestment in education. It's a real problem.

But teachers in DCPS are among the highest paid in the country. And yes, some of that pay is due to bonuses for being "highly effective" and that's not guaranteed, but some teachers absolutely avail themselves of it and yes there are teachers who meet the requirement.

ECE teachers in DCPS are particularly well paid. If you have a master degree in early childhood education, you can make over 100k within 10 years of teaching. That's amazing. Go talk to preschool and kindergarten teachers in other areas and ask how that sounds to them. DCPS has invested heavily in its ECE programs and that shows up in an incredibly strong ECE offering throughout the system, even at schools that really struggle with the upper grades, and some phenomenally good ECE instruction. This is not a criticism, it's actually evidence of what can happen if you are willing to financially reward top performers.

Anyway, this thread is not about the average teaching salary. It's not even about the average teaching salary in DCPS, because averaging everyone's salaries across the whole system would be incredibly misleading, given how much pay can vary depending on credentials, impact, and tenure. The thread is about the fact (and it is a fact) that DCPS actually pays teachers pretty well. That doesn't mean teaching in DCPS is easy, that the district is well run, or even that DCPS teachers don't deserve more in an absolute sense based on the vital service they perform.

Let me tell you that ECE teachers making 100K is the BARE minimum they deserve for the jobs they do. Yes, they are making significantly more than other ECE teachers in other places. That fact just says how little we value caretakers and women who work with children. Working in ECE takes as much or more talent, work and knowledge as it does to teach Calculus. I guarantee that if you took pretty much any CEO with some "big job", they'd run away crying from how hard teaching ECE is. Imo, ECE teachers should start at 100K everywhere. It should be the federally mandated pay across the country. Same with those who teach special ed.

And yet the schools here are terrible. Kids here do worse on math and reading tests than kids in MISSISSIPPI.

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/24/us/math-reading-scores-pandemic.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Once again, this is not unique. I'm a fed and our agency hires new grads with masters at GS-7 or GS-9, so in the same range. OH, and only 3 weeks vacation total for each of the first three years (no summer, winter, and spring break)!

+1, a lot of government jobs offer recent college grads somewhere in this range.

I was a GS 7 with a masters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard about this thread (and this website) in the teachers’ lounge over lunch. And wow. Just wow.

But DCPS is hiring! Join us, since we’re super well-paid and all.

Man, you are missing the point.

So many people assume that unless you are the parent of an at-risk child in DCPS, you must be better off than the teachers. Guess what, not all of us are. I have made less money annually than every one of my child's DCPS teachers, except a handful of specials teachers. And that's with me working 12 months a year, and I regularly work long hours and have to work through holidays or weekends or after hours in order to meet deadlines. So on an hourly basis, I think it's very likely that many DCPS teachers make a lot more than I do. I have a master degree, am a 15 yr veteran in my field, and I think my work is important (though it is solitary and I can work remotely, a perk I really appreciate, though this does make work-life balance difficult because of my hours).

I am glad DCPS teachers make the salaries they do, I think all teachers deserve more. I think I deserve more. But I think it's worth acknowledging these are good salaries for the industry. Yes, the area is expensive. I know, I'm a middle class parent trying to make it work!

OP's only point is that teachers in DCPS are well compensated by industry standards and that perhaps parents should not carry around this belief that all teachers are underpaid, because in DCPS that's not really true. DCPS pays pretty darn well. Why is that so upsetting to say?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Once again, this is not unique. I'm a fed and our agency hires new grads with masters at GS-7 or GS-9, so in the same range. OH, and only 3 weeks vacation total for each of the first three years (no summer, winter, and spring break)!

A first year teacher makes $63,373 or $67,598 with a masters under the new (now expired) contract. It is not living on champagne and caviar. It's a decent start compared to some other professions but it's also below many others. Even if one considers the salary appropriate, it may not be enough to compete with other starting jobs that allow you to work remote or hybrid, not constantly be on stage and not have to address the demands and needs of numerous stakeholders every minute of every day.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I just read this in David Graeber's "Bullshit Jobs" that may explain some of the vibes here.

he's talking in this section about how capitalism has created this "principle of inverse relation of compensation and social benefit" --- basically, the larger the social benefit and contribution of your job, the less money you are allowed to demand. Very twisted, IMO.

"teachers perform a vitally necessary function, yet have the temerity to demand middle-class lifestyles. They are the objects of a special ire, I suspect, by those trapped in soul-desroying low- and middle-level bullshit jobs."

Is this surprising, given that many of those soul-destroying jobs are lower paid than teaching, and also do not come with two months off during the summer and other breaks throughout the year? And then to hear teachers making $130k say that's not enough and act like they're working harder than anyone else?

I don’t know a single teacher making anywhere remotely near $130K (or even over $100K). Can we stop using the extreme top of a pay scale that most people NEVER see as an “average” salary? It’s disingenuous.

There's literally a poster on this thread who said they make $130k in DCPS, and the subject of the post is "DCPS teachers are well paid," so it seems reasonable to mention. Obviously they're not all making that much. But some are.

So, one poster here. Okay. If you’ve read the thread, it has been well established —over and over again — how rare this salary is, even in DCPS (the highest paid region).

I suppose I should judge every profession by its highest paid representative? So every lawyer makes 7 figures? Every one!

Exactly. A first year DCPS teacher makes $57k or $61 if they have a masters. Not exactly living on champagne and caviar in DC on that salary. You'd be lucky to afford an apartment without roommates.

Once again, this is not unique. I'm a fed and our agency hires new grads with masters at GS-7 or GS-9, so in the same range. OH, and only 3 weeks vacation total for each of the first three years (no summer, winter, and spring break)!

A first year teacher makes $63,373 or $67,598 with a masters under the new (now expired) contract. It is not living on champagne and caviar. It's a decent start compared to some other professions but it's also below many others. Even if one considers the salary appropriate, it may not be enough to compete with other starting jobs that allow you to work remote or hybrid, not constantly be on stage and not have to address the demands and needs of numerous stakeholders every minute of every day.

So it might not be enough to attract candidates who don't actually want to be teachers? Okay.

I'm a librarian and those salaries would be extremely competitive in my field for someone entry level (and librarian positions increasingly require a master's even to be considered). Librarians are not as "on stage" as teachers are, even in public facing reference positions or children's library roles. There are rote and hybrid library jobs, especially in the private sector or roles where all or most materials are online. There are lots of stakeholders in a library job, though they are probably not as demanding as those teachers deal with.

Library jobs in DC average much higher pay than in other parts of the country because of some idiosyncrasies of the market (Library of Congress, various federal agency libraries, plus a lot of private libraries at law firms and associations) but it would still be hard to find entry level positions here paying as well as DCPS teachers can make right out if school.

Just some perspective. Maybe some of the disgruntled teachers should switch to library work. Though you'll probably need to get an MLS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I heard about this thread (and this website) in the teachers’ lounge over lunch. And wow. Just wow.

But DCPS is hiring! Join us, since we’re super well-paid and all.

You do realize you’ve said absolutely nothing of substance here, correct?