Our Current Situation - Not thrilled

[Anonymous]

You do realize that someone who gets into undergrad via test optional is not just guaranteed a spot at Medical school. They still are to actually take all the undergrad prerequisites, have an extremely high GPA, high MCAT scores (there---you have your testing) and recommendations. You also wont become an engineer "designing infrastructure" if you do not excel at college and actually learn the material. Hint: someone with a 1200 SAT can still excel at university and go on to be an excellent doctor



I am surprised that some of to doctors I interact with on a daily basis at my major trauma center hospital can even tie their own shoes (oh wait, they don't, they were slide on shoes) and their is current medical debate over making the MCAT optional or removing it entirely to "even the playing field". Not sure if you have been exposed to the shit-show that is medicine lately but the system is crumbling.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just FYI:

Feb 24, 2020 — Exactly 61,353 young men earned the Eagle Scout award last year, beating the previous record of 58,659 set in 2012

Just FYI there were 3,650,460 high school graduates in 2020, so Eagle Scouts were 1.7% of all high school graduates that year.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

My thought is that just listing Eagle Scout won't do much for college admissions. However, depending upon how an applicant presents this achievement could make a difference. What did the experience mean to the applicant in terms of personal growth & insights ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
You do realize that someone who gets into undergrad via test optional is not just guaranteed a spot at Medical school. They still are to actually take all the undergrad prerequisites, have an extremely high GPA, high MCAT scores (there---you have your testing) and recommendations. You also wont become an engineer "designing infrastructure" if you do not excel at college and actually learn the material. Hint: someone with a 1200 SAT can still excel at university and go on to be an excellent doctor

I am surprised that some of to doctors I interact with on a daily basis at my major trauma center hospital can even tie their own shoes (oh wait, they don't, they were slide on shoes) and their is current medical debate over making the MCAT optional or removing it entirely to "even the playing field". Not sure if you have been exposed to the shit-show that is medicine lately but the system is crumbling.

Do they know the difference between their/ there/ they're?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not shoot for something like ivy or Stanford or Duke? Your child has the stats to at least play the lottery, and that way you wouldn’t be stuck with a lack of options

Huh???!?!?! They can't get into Purdue, yet you think Ivies, Stanford and duke would be easier to get into?
That's not how this works

Unless OP misses something or not trolling, I don't understand how the kid applies VCU and GMU with these amazing stats, but not applying top 10 schools. Seems his best schools is only GT or Duke. I know several havard students SAT score is only above 1500.

[Anonymous]

Hang in there, OP. Your child has so much to offer. Many doors can open at April 1st and beyond. Options you have so far are good though!

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

+1 this exactly
Earning one's Eagle is absolutely an accomplishment. But it is no longer the unique distinction that some people still think it is. It is a solid EC that shows leadership. Nothing less, nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You say son and then she later on.

Big difference if girl or boy in that major.

Eagle scout=boy.

Agree. DUH!!!

Boy scouts now admits girls (they are desperate to increase their numbers), and there ARE FEMALE Eagle Scouts:

https://www.npr.org/2021/03/29/982184888/1st-female-members-fulfill-requirements-for-eagle-scout#:~:text=Transcript-,The%20first%20class%20of%20female%20Eagle%20Scouts%20has%20officially%20been,known%20as%20the%20Boy%20Scouts.

So, no... not "duh!"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You sound like a pretty depressing mom. Poor kid

This thread is just insane. Yes, it's always better to be a superstar academically so that you have more options. But being the best and having a bunch of awards on your wall never makes anyone happy and that attitude is a recipe for an unfulfilling life. Is it the end of the world if this kid ends up working as a nurse or teacher? Heck, the happiest person I know is my brother. He has a high school diploma, sucks at anything to do with academics, but is otherwise an amazing person. He works 7 days a month as a firefighter.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why not shoot for something like ivy or Stanford or Duke? Your child has the stats to at least play the lottery, and that way you wouldn’t be stuck with a lack of options

Huh???!?!?! They can't get into Purdue, yet you think Ivies, Stanford and duke would be easier to get into?
That's not how this works

Unless OP misses something or not trolling, I don't understand how the kid applies VCU and GMU with these amazing stats, but not applying top 10 schools. Seems his best schools is only GT or Duke. I know several havard students SAT score is only above 1500.

Scores are irrelevant at T20 schools---once you have 1500+ it does not matter. With acceptance rates well below 10%, majority will get rejected, and majority will have the criteria to be an excellent candidate. So yeah there will be people with 1600 and 4.0 rejected---harvard and everyone else wants a balanced freshman class.

[Anonymous]

Long time Scoutmaster Comment on value of Eagle Scout Award. I'm a life-long volunteer and believer in the value of Scouting, so you would not expect me to be impartial on the comments posted by those who negatively speculate on the value of the Eagle Scout award. My actual experience over a sustained number of years is that the Eagle Scout award continues to provide significant and broadly-recognized admissions and career assistance to its recipients. During the admissions season I receive no fewer than 10 inquiries from admissions officers asking about the attributes of applicants who have listed this credential and me as a reference. Over a long period I believe the award and my specific comments have been effective -- probably 80% of the time. The advantage does not end at undergraduate admissions though. The BSA has an organization, the "National Eagle Scout Association", which has a chapter in every major population center. I receive a request from its personnel every month or so asking for career placement assistance, which I gladly give (as I am in a professional circumstance to do so). My referrals always result in an interview and frequently in a job offer (usually the first out of school). Most of the "anti-Eagle" postings I read seem motivated to tear are the imperfect BSA as an institution. I suppose that is fair game, because they are not yet fully recovered from the reorganization and the payout of damages to provide a sense of justice. However, parents should no be fooled by such rhetoric. The Eagle Scout award continues to be a significant admissions and career placement advantage for its recipients. Take my actual practical experience into consideration before adopting the position of these BSA-haters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

So does being a 3 sport varsity athlete, or a standout athlete in one sport. Guess which is more highly valued?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Long time Scoutmaster Comment on value of Eagle Scout Award. I'm a life-long volunteer and believer in the value of Scouting, so you would not expect me to be impartial on the comments posted by those who negatively speculate on the value of the Eagle Scout award. My actual experience over a sustained number of years is that the Eagle Scout award continues to provide significant and broadly-recognized admissions and career assistance to its recipients. During the admissions season I receive no fewer than 10 inquiries from admissions officers asking about the attributes of applicants who have listed this credential and me as a reference. Over a long period I believe the award and my specific comments have been effective -- probably 80% of the time. The advantage does not end at undergraduate admissions though. The BSA has an organization, the "National Eagle Scout Association", which has a chapter in every major population center. I receive a request from its personnel every month or so asking for career placement assistance, which I gladly give (as I am in a professional circumstance to do so). My referrals always result in an interview and frequently in a job offer (usually the first out of school). Most of the "anti-Eagle" postings I read seem motivated to tear are the imperfect BSA as an institution. I suppose that is fair game, because they are not yet fully recovered from the reorganization and the payout of damages to provide a sense of justice. However, parents should no be fooled by such rhetoric. The Eagle Scout award continues to be a significant admissions and career placement advantage for its recipients. Take my actual practical experience into consideration before adopting the position of these BSA-haters.

Great. White men helping white men. Don't bother to deny it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I did not read the entire thread, but I hope you are staying positive for your kid. He has some excellent admittances and I would not be surprised if he gets offered a spot at Purdue.

UT Austin, Rice, and University of Washington were never going to happen. Georgia Tech is a toss up, but probably also a "no". Wisconsin seems like he should have a good shot.

I went through this with my kid last year. You need to be VERY positive about all of his acceptances and remind him why he likes those schools.

Huh. Why?? (not OP).

The kid has PERFECT stats.

So do thousands of others. (Tens or hundreds of thousands in TO world.)

You seriously think there are "hundreds of thousands" of high school seniors with perfect 4.0 uw GPAs AND who have taken 9 AP courses to include AP Physics, AP Calc BC, etc. AND who are Eagle Scouts AND have the equivalent of OP's kid's other accomplishments? No way.

NP here—hi OP. There may not be hundreds of thousands but there is certainly at least a hundred thousand. Public high schools give out 4.0s like candy. 100,000 would still be less than 1% of graduating seniors. So PP is right that there are hundreds of thousands of stellar students competing for the same spots. And there isn’t just one kind of “perfect.”

Come again?

It’s not less than 1%, but more like 2.5%. There are about 4 million graduating students—and that’s just the US. Point still stands, there are at least 100,000 students as stellar or more so than OP’s kid.

By GPA alone, sure. But you're conveniently ignoring the fact that the student has taken/is taking 9 APs across a range of subjects - to include ones likes AP Physics and AP Calc BC - on top of other achievements (Eagle Scouts, etc.). Are there thousands of equivalent kids? Yeah, probably. But 100,000? Again, no way.

Noooooobody cares about Eagle Scouts. It’s 2023, not 1995. Unless you get the 0.174% of admissions reps who are old men who were themselves Eagle Scouts and still think it’s a big deal that should factor into highly competitive admissions.

Whether or not you value scouts, everyone knows becoming an Eagle Scout takes hard work and commitment. Both attributes are likely valued by AOs.

+1

+2 The anti Eagle Scout crowd has no idea of the time and commitment involved and the resulting positive influence it has on the young person with discipline, work ethic, and philanthropic ideas/actions. I suspect individual bias is the impetus behind these negative views but such is life, especially in 2023.

Nobody is saying that Eagle Scout is not an accomplishment, people are saying that it isn't going to move the needle to get your kid into an elite university. My guess is that this has been true since the 90s at least.

Everyone says elite colleges want to see ECs that involve passion and commitment. Eagle Scout does that.

Not really. I know several Eagle Scouts and I wouldn't call any of them passionate. They attended lots of meetings and did lots of fun projects, and ultimately a project (that lots of the moms helped them with). Definitely time consuming. But highly structured and not something, if I were judging based on what I know, would describe as passion and commitment.