I used to find comfort in the President’s “evolving” position. Now, I can’t…
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Anonymous
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I respect the president a lot of reasons and being a thoughtful person is certainly one of them. That said, I feel like his support of gay marriage yesterday left me standing alone in my own personal views on the issue. I felt some comfort in the fact that he’s a good person (like me) who is giving the issue some serious thought but had not fully worked through it. I understand that some people see gay marriage as a human rights issue. But I can’t seem to get there. Still, even though a substantial percentage of people are against gay marriage, I find little comfort with those ranks and its reasoning.
I guess I’m looking for help from you on this. I am by no means looking for a fight on this issue (like past and recent DCUM threads). Please resist the temptation to attack. I would just appreciate some open discourse on why you feel the way you do, and how you got there – especially from those people who were once against, but are now for gay marriage. Thanks. |
Anonymous
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OP - perhaps you could start with your concerns and perspective?
For me, it is a black and white issue of fairness. Why should the legal blessing of a committed relationship between consenting adults be an exclusive club? Why should the committed relationships and the families that are born of some humans be considered less valuable or respected than others because they love and choose to build a family with someone of the same gender? I have never heard a rational answer to those questions. I am a straight, married woman with children. |
Anonymous
| What reasoning do people have against gay marriage that you find comforting? Why do you care what other people do? How the heck does a gay couple getting married affect you and your family? Get over your bigotry. I mean it. |
Anonymous
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This is probably no comfort to you, but all Obama has done is "evolve" back to his 1996 position on gay marriage.
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0109/Obama_backed_samesex_marriage_in_1996.html His campaign claimed that a staffer filled out that questionnaire in 1996, but I don't think that was widely believed. |
Anonymous
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My stance on gay marriage has taken a similar "evolutionary" path as Obama.
Around the time of the Prop 8 stuff, I was pretty anti-gay marriage. Still was until very recently (past 2 or 3 months). Like Obama, I wanted there to be a bigger focus on strengthening the rights of gays under civil unions without tampering with the very foundation and definition of marriage. What I've come to understand is that, while I still don't agree with gay marriage, homosexuality...or any other sin for that matter, it is not okay to deny rights to others because of my religious beliefs. The US is made up of people from many different religious (and non-religious) backgrounds and viewpoints. Religion should never trump human rights. So, while I don't agree with gay marriage and/or homosexuality, I now support support gay marriage on a human rights level. |
Anonymous
This would be my question(s) to you: If a person doesn't agree with it (for whatever "reasoning they choose), why does it frustrate you so much? Why are you so intolerant of varying viewpoints and/or personal beliefs? Are we only allowed to have an opinion on something that affects us directly? |
Anonymous
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It really makes no sense to me to deny gays the right to marriage. It's something that doesn't affect me at all. It has only good things for me. It gives benefits to people who I like very much, who happen to be gay, and it does not negatively impact me at all. It won't raise my taxes to give these people these benefits, it doesn't take anything away from me.
I can't understand how gay marriage is supposed to weaken marriage. I think what weakens marriage as an institution are things like Britney Spear's 55 hr marriage. If I wanted to strengthen marriage, I would think Las Vegas weddings and no fault divorces should be abolished. |
Anonymous
I think that you may have misread the OP's posting. I think she said she takes little comfort from the anti-gay marriage crowd. I have "evolved" on this and I am a married mother. I am also more conservative on certain things. On this I have asked myself whether I want to raise my children in a world that treats some people differently than others. I do not and I believe that people should live and let live. I believe in a creator and I also believe that people are born gay. So I figure that our creator must have some purpose for all the people created. I also believe that all the rules and traditions in the bible or other religious texts are creations of man. I am uncomfortable with treating gay people differently just as I am uncomfortable about women being treated different than men, etc. Not only does that send a message that some believe they are better than others, it also impacts individual rights under our system of laws (marriage carries with it certain rights). I am Episcopalian and this issue has really caused a lot of pain in my church. I am proud of the American Episcopal church for taking the lead on it because the Anglican church has seemed unwilling to lead on the issue. I think that people whose lives are political in some way, like our President, feel like they have to tread lightly on this issue because it is something some people feel so passionately about. He is up for reelection this year and he probably wants to keep all of the moderate votes he can get. Additionally, I think that many religious African Americans do not support gay marriage. I realize that is a stereotype/broad brush statement but I think it is something our President may be thinking about. I don't think you will ever really know how he feels about issues like this while he is in office. He has to hedge and consider how his statements, actions and policies will impact his reelection and the reelection of fellow Democrats. |
Anonymous
I'm intolerant of your bigotry? Get over yourself. |
Anonymous
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I am a straight, married woman with two kids, and I fully support the right of gay couples to get married. It doesn't "threaten" my marriage in any way, despite what some people seem to believe. Allowing gay people to marry will not destroy marriage and it will not destroy families. Straight people (such as Newt Gingrich, John Edwards, Britney Spears with her 55-hour first marriage, the idiot Kardashian sisters, all those stupid Bachelor and Bachelorette reality shows and countless others) are doing a fine job of that all on their own. They make a mockery of marriage, while gay couples who have been together for years are denied the right to tie the knot. This Saturday, I will have been married for 14 years. I want all people who love each other and have made a commitment to each other to have that right. No one is going to force the Catholic Church or any other church to perform marriage ceremonies for same-sex couples if that is not something they believe in. We're not talking about the religious sacrament here. We're talking about having the right to be legally married and the benefits and protections that go along with it. And as to the argument that only a man and a woman can produce children, so only a man and a woman should be allowed to get married. Well, what about the many couples who are unable to have children, or who don't wish to have children? Should they be allowed to get married? There are plenty of gay couples who would make far better parents than some straight couples. And as to the idiotic arguments that we might as well allow people to marry their pets, don't even get me started on that one.
DADT was lifted. Did you see soldiers, sailors, airmen, and Marines parading in the streets with assless chaps and feather boas, having sex in public? I didn't think so. They just quietly went about their business, doing their duty the same as before. Except now, they don't have to hide their relationships or deny who they are. Same thing with allowing gay couples to marry. It's really not such a big deal as some people think. It really will not change anything for the rest of us. It will, however, extend some basic human rights to people that really aren't that different from us, aside from who they love. I sincerely hope that when my children are grown up, all this will be a non-issue. Did Sweden, Iceland, the Netherlands, Argentina, Canada, and other countries all fall off the face of the earth when they allowed gay couples to marry? No, I'd say they are doing just fine. They actually walk the family values walk (in many respects including healthcare, parental leave, etc.), instead of just talking the talk like the United States does. |
Anonymous
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I think of marriage as two things: a commitment between two people, a religious sacrament and a legal status.
Ok everyone understands the commitment piece. It is whatever the two people promise to each other, regardless of who witnesses or approves it. As for legal vs sacrament, Ask yourself: would you feel weird if you got married by a judge in county court? Probably. Why? Because the court is not a house of God. Something sacramental is missing. That type of marriage is a legal status only. So to me, since a court marriage is merely a legal status, empty of the religious meaning, it is a right that belongs to citizens. Sacraments are a matter for religion. The churches get to decide this. |
Anonymous
| Three things. |
Anonymous
See, this is the problem with many supporters of marriage equality. They go for abrasiveness instead of effectiveness. The OP is *open* to having his/her mind changed and she asked for polite convincing. What you said isn't going to get anyone to change their mind. The words of posters like 09:50 and 09:56 might. Please- if you actually care about marriage equality, stop thinking of yourself only and saying whatever *you* want to say, and focus on saying things that will actually bring people over to the side of marriage equality. |
Anonymous
So marriage between 2 atheists is not as valid as yours b/c its has no religious meaning and didn't take place under God? Sorry - you are wrong. |
Anonymous
No. It is as I said a personal commitment and a legal status. It's not a religious sacrament but atheists don't want or need that. I am trying to help a likely religious OP separate personal religious beliefs from legal marriage. |