Everyone I know is laid off by age 55

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

And this is funny because at my agency, the majority of the really good cybersecurity, system and network engineers are late 40's on up. These are people who have 20+ years of system, IT and security experience. In our area, the Tier 1 and Tier 2 people are frequently the younger ones, but the Tier 3 folks who do a lot of the design work or fix problems that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 people can't, are all the senior staff with many years of experience.

And we are the people that folks come to when they don't know how to do things on their computers. Yes, I am one of them. I've been a system administrator for over 30 years and have worked in IT security for about 15 years of those years. There are many others like me in their 50's that are the go to senior IT folks in our agency.

Isn't that also because some of the government agencies' software is kind of old and established?

I'm old enough to remember the Y2k bug, and how many organizations had to bring back the old timers to backport old code written in pascal.

Y2K shows how young you are. I worked at MasterCard in operations and I was a microfilmer, we later moved to microfiche, later optical scanning.

I actually did not use a computer at work or at home till I was 30. I got my first computer at work at 34 which is when I sent my first email. I got my first cell phone at 40!

Over last 25 years I was involved in massive software and hardware implementations. Most recently a two billion dollar release.

Way back at start of career I really enjoyed working with older employees you learn so much. I worked with women who led a large team building fighter here during WWII, a few men in WWII. My favorite I worked with a chalkboard girl. In the 1920s she would at 14 or 15 stand in front of a huge chalkboard and update ticker prices every 15 minutes.

Honestly since windows 95 not much has changed at work. Almost nothing. In the late 1990s I had high speed internet, email, Microsoft word etc.

I say 25 years ago in 1996 work is pretty similar computer wise. However 1971 vs 1996 a huge leap forward.

I think the younger folks meaning under 50 really don’t know how things work. They never had the opportunity.

I currently work in a high flying fin tech start up looking to do an ipo. The new IT people are lazer focused and know ten times what I do about that little slice they do. But they don’t see big picture.

For instance we took one trillion dollars worth of physical securities in a vault the size of football field and make then book entry. The days of seeing the actual thing is gone.

OK, you beat me. I was using BASIC at 14 on a tape. My first job we were using DOS based software in the early 90s. When we went to Windows 3 it was a huge deal. I did do some government work with Commerce in the mid 90s and they were still using DOS. I think around '94 they upgraded to Win 3.11. I did the upgrade in that office.

ITA about big picture vs in depth knowledge. Most younguns have a harder time with big picture. Years of experience usually helps one see the bigger picture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:1) That has not been my experience in the Gov't Contracting arena (experience is valued).
2) It shows why the health care system in the US, where it is tied to employment, is completely broken.

This is because the rich folks say, "I got mine ($) and can afford the medical insurance. You need to get your own. Don't expect handout from government." (Translation: don't raise taxes for the rich folks.)

You should consider carefully about who you are voting into the office. Don't vote stupid and then cry about it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not in the federal government, there are full time employees in their 80's. And people in their 60's are routinely hired.

+1, I have not seen age discrimination at my agency.

Yep, this does not happen in government.

Agreed.

Which agencies are hiring workers in their 60s?? Are these internal hires?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

This is very true. I have a direct report in her 60s, and anytime an email is sent out about a new website or Teams group that our leadership wants us to join, my direct report expects me to setup time and walk her through it step by steps, even though detailed sign up instructions are included in the email, and she could easily read and follow them by herself. It is a big waste of my time.

She also calls me for anything even remotely different than her typical processes, and rants as if it’s the end of the world, when it’s no big deal. And she goes on in circles for 30 minutes. Experiences like this are what make hiring managers reluctant to hire older workers. We don’t have the time to babysit and hand hold people for routine mundane tasks.

Older workers definitely bring value, but if the costs of time and effort outweigh the value, then leaders look to younger talent that doesn’t require as much handholding. Older workers in the workforce are still competing against younger talent with fresher skillsets, so the onus is on them to stay on top of their game if they want to be seriously considered in hiring decisions.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

This is very true. I have a direct report in her 60s, and anytime an email is sent out about a new website or Teams group that our leadership wants us to join, my direct report expects me to setup time and walk her through it step by steps, even though detailed sign up instructions are included in the email, and she could easily read and follow them by herself. It is a big waste of my time.

She also calls me for anything even remotely different than her typical processes, and rants as if it’s the end of the world, when it’s no big deal. And she goes on in circles for 30 minutes. Experiences like this are what make hiring managers reluctant to hire older workers. We don’t have the time to babysit and hand hold people for routine mundane tasks.

Older workers definitely bring value, but if the costs of time and effort outweigh the value, then leaders look to younger talent that doesn’t require as much handholding. Older workers in the workforce are still competing against younger talent with fresher skillsets, so the onus is on them to stay on top of their game if they want to be seriously considered in hiring decisions.

I also deal with this at work and do not want to hire people incapable of performing routine office tasks. There are numerous Youtube videos they can watch to learn how to use Teams, etc. This has nothing to do with their age only the willingness to learn new things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

This is very true. I have a direct report in her 60s, and anytime an email is sent out about a new website or Teams group that our leadership wants us to join, my direct report expects me to setup time and walk her through it step by steps, even though detailed sign up instructions are included in the email, and she could easily read and follow them by herself. It is a big waste of my time.

She also calls me for anything even remotely different than her typical processes, and rants as if it’s the end of the world, when it’s no big deal. And she goes on in circles for 30 minutes. Experiences like this are what make hiring managers reluctant to hire older workers. We don’t have the time to babysit and hand hold people for routine mundane tasks.

Older workers definitely bring value, but if the costs of time and effort outweigh the value, then leaders look to younger talent that doesn’t require as much handholding. Older workers in the workforce are still competing against younger talent with fresher skillsets, so the onus is on them to stay on top of their game if they want to be seriously considered in hiring decisions.

This is nonsense.

I worked on every major computer project in last 40 years. On line brokerage, ACH, ATMs, On line banking, Pretty much I go on line and it touched it. Right now doing Crypto, Mobile Banking IT work. Pretty much most of computers were invented by folks in their 50s and 60s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

And this is funny because at my agency, the majority of the really good cybersecurity, system and network engineers are late 40's on up. These are people who have 20+ years of system, IT and security experience. In our area, the Tier 1 and Tier 2 people are frequently the younger ones, but the Tier 3 folks who do a lot of the design work or fix problems that the Tier 1 and Tier 2 people can't, are all the senior staff with many years of experience.

And we are the people that folks come to when they don't know how to do things on their computers. Yes, I am one of them. I've been a system administrator for over 30 years and have worked in IT security for about 15 years of those years. There are many others like me in their 50's that are the go to senior IT folks in our agency.

Isn't that also because some of the government agencies' software is kind of old and established?

I'm old enough to remember the Y2k bug, and how many organizations had to bring back the old timers to backport old code written in pascal.

Y2K shows how young you are. I worked at MasterCard in operations and I was a microfilmer, we later moved to microfiche, later optical scanning.

I actually did not use a computer at work or at home till I was 30. I got my first computer at work at 34 which is when I sent my first email. I got my first cell phone at 40!

Over last 25 years I was involved in massive software and hardware implementations. Most recently a two billion dollar release.

Way back at start of career I really enjoyed working with older employees you learn so much. I worked with women who led a large team building fighter here during WWII, a few men in WWII. My favorite I worked with a chalkboard girl. In the 1920s she would at 14 or 15 stand in front of a huge chalkboard and update ticker prices every 15 minutes.

Honestly since windows 95 not much has changed at work. Almost nothing. In the late 1990s I had high speed internet, email, Microsoft word etc.

I say 25 years ago in 1996 work is pretty similar computer wise. However 1971 vs 1996 a huge leap forward.

I think the younger folks meaning under 50 really don’t know how things work. They never had the opportunity.

I currently work in a high flying fin tech start up looking to do an ipo. The new IT people are lazer focused and know ten times what I do about that little slice they do. But they don’t see big picture.

For instance we took one trillion dollars worth of physical securities in a vault the size of football field and make then book entry. The days of seeing the actual thing is gone.

OK, you beat me. I was using BASIC at 14 on a tape. My first job we were using DOS based software in the early 90s. When we went to Windows 3 it was a huge deal. I did do some government work with Commerce in the mid 90s and they were still using DOS. I think around '94 they upgraded to Win 3.11. I did the upgrade in that office.

ITA about big picture vs in depth knowledge. Most younguns have a harder time with big picture. Years of experience usually helps one see the bigger

picture.

I remember using old punch cards at work to do my supermarket list in! I removed we used a Dex machine before Fax machines. We had a bunker ramo and quotron machine at work to check stock quotes. When we cc we actually used carbon paper to make the copies

We also had green bar reports and dot matrix printers

My favorite the “buck slips” these little pieces of paper that said “from the desk of”
If you need to reconcile a report or something. You would paper clip your buck slip to it and give it to your manager, who in turn gave it to his supervisor abs so on. Hence the term pass the buck.

We also had no voice mail so phone ringing was constant. We also did a lot more walking at work.

I also recall the printer was big. All the marketing brochures, stocks, bonds CDs we had to print to give to customer.

It really made you pay attention. Folks got fired over a typo.

We also had a squak box at work and an intercom system. In emergency 🆘

[Anonymous]

My dad got a nice package at age 72 - he's a software engineer by training and his career in his later years focused more on business development. He experienced his share of ageism but ultimately no one wanted to fire him because of his consistent results. Finally they were getting rid of a third of their workforce and offering packages and he decided to take one.

So, it's not a rule! I'm not sure how a woman that age would have fared.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My dad got a nice package at age 72 - he's a software engineer by training and his career in his later years focused more on business development. He experienced his share of ageism but ultimately no one wanted to fire him because of his consistent results. Finally they were getting rid of a third of their workforce and offering packages and he decided to take one.

So, it's not a rule! I'm not sure how a woman that age would have fared.

But still 72 is young depending on circumstance. My uncle was lucky to retire at 80. He is 92 lives in Malibu and dating a much younger women who is 80.

Why is age a random number. Betty White and Norman Lear have worked almost 50 years after their 50th bday

[Anonymous]

Who is Norman Lear?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My dad got a nice package at age 72 - he's a software engineer by training and his career in his later years focused more on business development. He experienced his share of ageism but ultimately no one wanted to fire him because of his consistent results. Finally they were getting rid of a third of their workforce and offering packages and he decided to take one.

So, it's not a rule! I'm not sure how a woman that age would have fared.

But still 72 is young depending on circumstance. My uncle was lucky to retire at 80. He is 92 lives in Malibu and dating a much younger women who is 80.

Why is age a random number. Betty White and Norman Lear have worked almost 50 years after their 50th bday

But you are pointing out people who work for themselves. Tycoons and the Rolling Stones don't need the money. They work because they want to.

[Anonymous]

I work for a big corporation that skews young. The good news for the 55+ people is that retirement medical kicks in at that age as long as you have a certain number of years with the company. It seems that’s a good answer — if you want people to leave at 55, make it easy for them to go on the medical front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:1) That has not been my experience in the Gov't Contracting arena (experience is valued).
2) It shows why the health care system in the US, where it is tied to employment, is completely broken.

This is because the rich folks say, "I got mine ($) and can afford the medical insurance. You need to get your own. Don't expect handout from government." (Translation: don't raise taxes for the rich folks.)

You should consider carefully about who you are voting into the office. Don't vote stupid and then cry about it.

I don't believe taxing the rich alone would solve the health care problem. Taiwan has pretty low tax rate and universal healthcare. At some point, money will bring in marginal performance improvement. We need to be vigilante about actually improving the coverage, reduce cost inefficiencies, holding pharma companies accountable for pricing. Happy to vote Bernie into office but realize there are so many movings pieces beyond who you vote into office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We just interviewed a 50ish woman for a position that currently is filled by people in their 20’s. She was stressing out big time about how to use the computer software, her current job isn’t teaching her etc. This is why we are reluctant to hire older employees. She could be good at her healthcare job but can’t handle the basic computer skills.

This is very true. I have a direct report in her 60s, and anytime an email is sent out about a new website or Teams group that our leadership wants us to join, my direct report expects me to setup time and walk her through it step by steps, even though detailed sign up instructions are included in the email, and she could easily read and follow them by herself. It is a big waste of my time.

She also calls me for anything even remotely different than her typical processes, and rants as if it’s the end of the world, when it’s no big deal. And she goes on in circles for 30 minutes. Experiences like this are what make hiring managers reluctant to hire older workers. We don’t have the time to babysit and hand hold people for routine mundane tasks.

Older workers definitely bring value, but if the costs of time and effort outweigh the value, then leaders look to younger talent that doesn’t require as much handholding. Older workers in the workforce are still competing against younger talent with fresher skillsets, so the onus is on them to stay on top of their game if they want to be seriously considered in hiring decisions.

I am not a people manager, I actually enjoy having a few of these coworkers around. When I was younger, we had a couple super lazy people on the team who do absolutely nothing, you can literally send them an email asking them to update A to C in the system and they will not lift a finger. These guys are in their 30s mind you. I used to be super pissed about that.

Nowadays I am happy to schedule a time with our older coworker to walk her through how to navigate google drive, recreate some ppt for my boss because he can't be bothered to read excel conclusions. I realized that the CEO's money is not my money, I get paid and I create a work environment in my immediate team that's pleasant for me and for the people around me, that's all.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both of us were pushed out, 51 and 54. Techies. Had a 10 and 12 year old. Outsourced to India in one case and new younger hire in another. Took DH a year to find something at 30% lower salary and I haven’t found anything yet.

Our story almost exactly. His is 45% less salary. I am jobless. 50, 48.